Fall 2021 Post-Clerkship Hiring Forum

[Anonymous User]

What some V50 firms do, to my knowledge, is give a midlevel lateral two years of credit only, regardless of how much practice and clerkship experience he or she had beforehand.

So a midlevel lateral with many, many years of experience would receive a clerkship bonus, but would start as a third year and be paid a third year's salary -- of course, the midlevel would be expected to do senior-level work and be held to the standards of a senior ....

What I mean is that firms can milk and bleed a midlevel lateral in a way they could not junior laterals.

+1. I am a 6th year in biglaw, practiced for one year after law school then clerked for one year. I recently tried to lateral to a midlaw, and they wanted to start me as a 4th year, citing business needs. I turned that offer down and thought it was insulting--that they did not take me seriously as a strong candidate.

I did not know that this is fairly common.

[Anonymous User]

What some V50 firms do, to my knowledge, is give a midlevel lateral two years of credit only, regardless of how much practice and clerkship experience he or she had beforehand.

So a midlevel lateral with many, many years of experience would receive a clerkship bonus, but would start as a third year and be paid a third year's salary -- of course, the midlevel would be expected to do senior-level work and be held to the standards of a senior ....

What I mean is that firms can milk and bleed a midlevel lateral in a way they could not junior laterals.

+1. I am a 6th year in biglaw, practiced for one year after law school then clerked for one year. I recently tried to lateral to a midlaw, and they wanted to start me as a 4th year, citing business needs. I turned that offer down and thought it was insulting--that they did not take me seriously as a strong candidate.

I did not know that this is fairly common.

I had a somewhat similar situation but was treated better by mid law firm in NYC. Left for 2 year clerkship after 2 years of big law. Went to midlaw after and was paid with class, but had to drop a class year for partnership prospects. Frankly, hearing other circumstances and considering how fast i'd be up for partner, i'm getting happier and happier about how i was treated.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone applied to or heard from Wheeler Trigg in Denver? I'm wondering if regional firms would be better targets rather than generic lit biglaw.

I interviewed there recently during COVID. Word on the street is that they have a lot of turnovers in the last 2-3 years at the associate rank, but they also hired a few recently during COVID, too. YMMV.

If you are seriously considering them, I'd look into the high turnover issue (if I was you).

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone applied to or heard from Wheeler Trigg in Denver? I'm wondering if regional firms would be better targets rather than generic lit biglaw.

I did back in the Fall. I was in the process of arranging a callback, but ended up accepting another offer in a different market. They've got a great sales pitch for clerks. There are some good threads about them elsewhere on TLS. Denver is great (if expensive) and WTO seems to have a very stable/growing national practice.

[Anonymous User]

For those who have received offers, what was your timeline from application to interview to offer?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone interviewed with/gotten offers from Quinn NY this cycle?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone interviewed with/gotten offers from Quinn NY this cycle?

A month or so ago, I was asked to submit a writing sample, silence since then.

Other NY biglaw firms that have rejected me after taking some time to consider:

Debevoise
Kirkland

V5 told me to fuck off within days of me submitting.

[Anonymous User]

maybe it’s been discussed, but this thread is scary. I will begin back to back clerkships this fall. What’s the deal with firms other than pandemic caution and cutbacks? Earlier years still made it seem tough. Do firms not really care about clerks even if they publicly like to say they do? Is the small increase in salary for a clerk 1-2 years out compared to a fresh associate really too much for the firm. Isn’t the clerk going to better on average than a completely new person? Someone asked elsewhere, why not just fill lit associate junior ranks with people coming off clerkships?

[Anonymous User]

maybe it’s been discussed, but this thread is scary. I will begin back to back clerkships this fall. What’s the deal with firms other than pandemic caution and cutbacks? Earlier years still made it seem tough. Do firms not really care about clerks even if they publicly like to say they do? Is the small increase in salary for a clerk 1-2 years out compared to a fresh associate really too much for the firm. Isn’t the clerk going to better on average than a completely new person? Someone asked elsewhere, why not just fill lit associate junior ranks with people coming off clerkships?

I think what you see this year and last year's post-clerkship hiring is due to pandemic cautions and cutbacks, like you stated. Firms do care about hiring former clerks, but only if they can afford to do so. Don't forget that they are BIGlaw--when business is slow, they still have enough lawyers to do the work due to the nature of their size. Every year, there is always a new crop of recent/former clerks to hire, so big firms can afford to not hire a class of clerks for one or two years.

[Anonymous User]

BK Clerk here. Does anyone know how long it takes for big law to respond between callback and offer?

I’ve heard of time frames all over the place but the norm seems to be about 2 weeks. Is that accurate?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone had an interview/heard from Kaplan Hecker, Susman NY, or Selendy?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone had an interview/heard from Kaplan Hecker, Susman NY, or Selendy?

Not sure about the first two, but have a 30-minute Selendy screener interview this week. Applied a few weeks ago.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone had an interview/heard from Kaplan Hecker, Susman NY, or Selendy?

Interviewed with all 3 - offer from Selendy, still nothing from the first two after final round interviews. Can someone tell me they're just slow?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone had an interview/heard from Kaplan Hecker, Susman NY, or Selendy?

Interviewed with all 3 - offer from Selendy, still nothing from the first two after final round interviews. Can someone tell me they're just slow?

Could you please share how long after you dropped an email to Selendy it took for you to hear back?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone had an interview/heard from Kaplan Hecker, Susman NY, or Selendy?

Interviewed with all 3 - offer from Selendy, still nothing from the first two after final round interviews. Can someone tell me they're just slow?

Could you please share how long after you dropped an email to Selendy it took for you to hear back?

My situation was maybe a little different because I have a connection there who sent my materials directly to recruitment earlier in the hiring cycle, so it was a few days or so.

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of mass mailing - did I miss any major lit boutiques in NY?

Susman
Molo
Morvillo
Lankler Siffert
Kaplan Hecker
Reichman
Kobre & Kim
Wilkinson Stekloff

Not that I know much about either firm, but Selendy & Gay and Holwell Shuster both come to mind.

Re/these boutiques—how do you differentiate among them? Should you just be choosing based on the people, or are there any that are especially well-known for giving better experiences or being less sweatshoppy? Right now most I’ve heard about these firms is Susman for being Susman, Kaplan because of Roberta Kaplan, and Wilkinson because of Beth Wilkinson

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know how long it takes for big law to respond between callback and offer?

Bumping this. Had a CB one week ago; getting nervous. Particularly interested in data points from big firms in mid-major markets (i.e., Philly, Denver, Atlanta, Phoenix).

[clerk2020]

Speaking of mass mailing - did I miss any major lit boutiques in NY?

Susman
Molo
Morvillo
Lankler Siffert
Kaplan Hecker
Reichman
Kobre & Kim
Wilkinson Stekloff

Not that I know much about either firm, but Selendy & Gay and Holwell Shuster both come to mind.

Re/these boutiques—how do you differentiate among them? Should you just be choosing based on the people, or are there any that are especially well-known for giving better experiences or being less sweatshoppy? Right now most I’ve heard about these firms is Susman for being Susman, Kaplan because of Roberta Kaplan, and Wilkinson because of Beth Wilkinson

I think some of the firms are pretty different in terms of what cases they do. Susman does high stakes civil litigation, including P-side, no criminal work. Wilkinson also does high stakes trials, more of a DC firm. Kaplan and Selendy do both P-side and defense, theoretically a bit more of a public interest bent? Lankler/Morvillo are most well known for white collar work, seem like good places to go if you want to be an AUSA.

[Anonymous User]

maybe it’s been discussed, but this thread is scary. I will begin back to back clerkships this fall. What’s the deal with firms other than pandemic caution and cutbacks? Earlier years still made it seem tough. Do firms not really care about clerks even if they publicly like to say they do? Is the small increase in salary for a clerk 1-2 years out compared to a fresh associate really too much for the firm. Isn’t the clerk going to better on average than a completely new person? Someone asked elsewhere, why not just fill lit associate junior ranks with people coming off clerkships?

I think what you see this year and last year's post-clerkship hiring is due to pandemic cautions and cutbacks, like you stated. Firms do care about hiring former clerks, but only if they can afford to do so. Don't forget that they are BIGlaw--when business is slow, they still have enough lawyers to do the work due to the nature of their size. Every year, there is always a new crop of recent/former clerks to hire, so big firms can afford to not hire a class of clerks for one or two years.

Another part of the equation is low attrition at at least some firms during COVID. The amount of people leaving these firms for other opportunities is down, so the number of attorneys at these firms is higher than it otherwise would be, leaving fewer slots for laterals and clerks.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have experience applying to firms in states where you are not currently licensed? Does the firm pay for you to take the bar exam in that state? Do they pay for the fees to waive into that state, if that is possible?

How does the lack of a bar license affect your chances of an offer?

[Anonymous User]

Just a heads-up -- I recently got offers from two boutique lit firms in Houston. Cravath base pay with the clerkship bonus above biglaw market in NYC. I applied around January, and got offers after a month of interviews. Due to my complicated work history that may out me, I won't give any details (sorry!) other than that I have both COA and D.Ct. clerkships and some biglaw experience before my clerkships.

[Anonymous User]

Just a heads-up -- I recently got offers from two boutique lit firms in Houston. Cravath base pay with the clerkship bonus above biglaw market in NYC. I applied around January, and got offers after a month of interviews. Due to my complicated work history that may out me, I won't give any details (sorry!) other than that I have both COA and D.Ct. clerkships and some biglaw experience before my clerkships.

That is fantastic!!

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of mass mailing - did I miss any major lit boutiques in NY?

Susman
Molo
Morvillo
Lankler Siffert
Kaplan Hecker
Reichman
Kobre & Kim
Wilkinson Stekloff

Not that I know much about either firm, but Selendy & Gay and Holwell Shuster both come to mind.

Re/these boutiques—how do you differentiate among them? Should you just be choosing based on the people, or are there any that are especially well-known for giving better experiences or being less sweatshoppy? Right now most I’ve heard about these firms is Susman for being Susman, Kaplan because of Roberta Kaplan, and Wilkinson because of Beth Wilkinson

I think some of the firms are pretty different in terms of what cases they do. Susman does high stakes civil litigation, including P-side, no criminal work. Wilkinson also does high stakes trials, more of a DC firm. Kaplan and Selendy do both P-side and defense, theoretically a bit more of a public interest bent? Lankler/Morvillo are most well known for white collar work, seem like good places to go if you want to be an AUSA.

There are a couple ways to distinguish between these firms, although how well you get along with the people is probably the most important.

Compensation
Susman, Molo, Selendy, Wilkinson, and Reichman all offer above-market compensation. Maybe a few others do as well. Some of these firms are at market, many are below market.

Selectivity
Susman, Molo, and Wilkinson are all very picky and basically hire clerks exclusively. Lankler also mostly hires clerks but is less picky, Reichman is also very picky.

White Collar
Some of these firms are very prestigious for their white collar work, especially Lankler Siffert and Morvillo. Some firms have a serious white collar practice but don't have the same reputation for producing AUSAs, like Molo or Kaplan Hecker. Some have no white collar work at all, like Susman.

Diversity of Work
There are a few ways to think about what kind of work you'll be doing: plaintiff versus defense work, trial versus appellate work, and civil versus criminal work. And there there is the diversity of cases within these categories. Some of these firms work on a very narrow kind of case. Susman does mostly plaintiff's-side cases of all kinds, mostly trial work, no real white collar but a good diversity of cases within the civil world. Molo has plaintiff's-side and defense-side work on the trial level, a ton of appellate work from Jeff Lamken, and a pretty wide diversity of types of civil cases and white collar work. Selendy does almost exclusively cases arising from financial products, both defense side and plaintiff's side, and will have some appellate work now that Caitlin Halligan has joined. Not sure about WIlkinson, but mostly trial work from what I understand. Lankler and Morvillo are mostly criminal work and investigations. Reichman is almost entirely IP trial work.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone had an interview/heard from Kaplan Hecker, Susman NY, or Selendy?

Interviewed with all 3 - offer from Selendy, still nothing from the first two after final round interviews. Can someone tell me they're just slow?

How long ago did you do your final rounds at Kaplan and Susman? Have heard the interview-to-offer timeframe varies a lot at these firms, often not having to do with the candidate.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone had an interview/heard from Kaplan Hecker, Susman NY, or Selendy?

Interviewed with all 3 - offer from Selendy, still nothing from the first two after final round interviews. Can someone tell me they're just slow?

How long ago did you do your final rounds at Kaplan and Susman? Have heard the interview-to-offer timeframe varies a lot at these firms, often not having to do with the candidate.

Around 3 weeks ago (or a little more for one). Hope that's true!