2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

[Anonymous User]

Those numbers are how many actually clerk (and that's only 10 months in), which is not at all the same as being competitive with certain grades. We can all speculate based on the required employment disclosure forms but that doesn't provide a new data point.

Would greatly appreciate if someone who actually has been on the other side can answer this: for Northwestern, what GPA would you filter out? We don't rank.

you'd "pass" the GPA cutoff in my former 2/7/9 chambers at like
25% HYSCC
10-15% remainder of the T14 including GULC
top 5% at places like UCLA, UT, etc
#1 or maybe 2-3 everywhere else

that gave us about 60-70 candidates iirc, out of 600+ applications.

goes without saying that the higher you are, the better of a shot you're getting a serious look. in reality i think you needed to be closer to top 5% from lower T14 for my judge to be interested, and top 10% from CC if not also HYS, but you'd get past the clerks with the above grades. it is worth noting that we were often very bad at figuring out class ranks for schools where none of us went. everyone has a different curve and tries to make their applicants look better in different ways.

i'd also slightly push back against the "you have to have connections" narrative above. my year, my judge hired one person who had a prof my judge trusted call on their behalf. the other three were among the group of people the clerks pulled out, and got good references, but didn't come through some kind of buddy network. i think it just feels like connections must play a huge role because something like the top 10 applications, total, got interview invites, and a lot of those people are getting interest from several chambers. so being "competitive" is not the same as actually having a good shot. i agree with the other person who stressed random idiosyncracies; my judge had a bunch, though i don't want to say specifically what they were because i think some of them are particular to his/her chambers. ultimately all of the people we interviewed but didn't offer or who withdrew before an offer landed in other good clerkships. i had no idea how i got hired after looking at the quality of applications we got.

What is top 25% at HYS anyway? Basically all Hs or any Ps offset by DS/Book prizes? i suppose I'm having a hard time seeing how crunching gpa numbers through weighing credit hours etc. is a good use of clerks' time.

All H's (or P's offset by DS) would be Magna level, which is top 10%. Cum laude (top 40th%) is 3.6 or so. I dont think anyone really knows anything besides Magna and cum laude level (so top 5% or top 25% really isnt possible). Note that it matters how judges weight DS's, they could do anything from assign them a full extra point to assign them no weight. Point being, the GPA cutoffs are largely fictions outside of Magna and cum laude-- you just need good grades.

[Anonymous User]

Those numbers are how many actually clerk (and that's only 10 months in), which is not at all the same as being competitive with certain grades. We can all speculate based on the required employment disclosure forms but that doesn't provide a new data point.

Would greatly appreciate if someone who actually has been on the other side can answer this: for Northwestern, what GPA would you filter out? We don't rank.

you'd "pass" the GPA cutoff in my former 2/7/9 chambers at like
25% HYSCC
10-15% remainder of the T14 including GULC
top 5% at places like UCLA, UT, etc
#1 or maybe 2-3 everywhere else

that gave us about 60-70 candidates iirc, out of 600+ applications.

goes without saying that the higher you are, the better of a shot you're getting a serious look. in reality i think you needed to be closer to top 5% from lower T14 for my judge to be interested, and top 10% from CC if not also HYS, but you'd get past the clerks with the above grades. it is worth noting that we were often very bad at figuring out class ranks for schools where none of us went. everyone has a different curve and tries to make their applicants look better in different ways.

i'd also slightly push back against the "you have to have connections" narrative above. my year, my judge hired one person who had a prof my judge trusted call on their behalf. the other three were among the group of people the clerks pulled out, and got good references, but didn't come through some kind of buddy network. i think it just feels like connections must play a huge role because something like the top 10 applications, total, got interview invites, and a lot of those people are getting interest from several chambers. so being "competitive" is not the same as actually having a good shot. i agree with the other person who stressed random idiosyncracies; my judge had a bunch, though i don't want to say specifically what they were because i think some of them are particular to his/her chambers. ultimately all of the people we interviewed but didn't offer or who withdrew before an offer landed in other good clerkships. i had no idea how i got hired after looking at the quality of applications we got.

What is top 25% at HYS anyway? Basically all Hs or any Ps offset by DS/Book prizes? i suppose I'm having a hard time seeing how crunching gpa numbers through weighing credit hours etc. is a good use of clerks' time.

All H's (or P's offset by DS) would be Magna level, which is top 10%. Cum laude (top 40th%) is 3.6 or so. I dont think anyone really knows anything besides Magna and cum laude level (so top 5% or top 25% really isnt possible). Note that it matters how judges weight DS's, they could do anything from assign them a full extra point to assign them no weight. Point being, the GPA cutoffs are largely fictions outside of Magna and cum laude-- you just need good grades.

I think counting Hs is a thing. I have offsetting DSs and Ps and would rather have straight Hs. I got an interview with a semi-feeder but no other COA interviews (and I wasn’t crazy picky) and so far only have a D. Ct. in a much less sexy district than the SDNY/EDNY/DDC/NDCal category (think Denver, Atlanta, Baltimore, New Orleans, Dallas, etc.).

[Anonymous User]

Anyone who has been on the hiring side have any insight as to how a transfer to HYS might be perceived in the more competitive circuits/districts? Lets say T10% at at T1 for 1L then T10% at the new school (only on one semester due to covid).

[Anonymous User]

Those numbers are how many actually clerk (and that's only 10 months in), which is not at all the same as being competitive with certain grades. We can all speculate based on the required employment disclosure forms but that doesn't provide a new data point.

Would greatly appreciate if someone who actually has been on the other side can answer this: for Northwestern, what GPA would you filter out? We don't rank.

you'd "pass" the GPA cutoff in my former 2/7/9 chambers at like
25% HYSCC
10-15% remainder of the T14 including GULC
top 5% at places like UCLA, UT, etc
#1 or maybe 2-3 everywhere else

that gave us about 60-70 candidates iirc, out of 600+ applications.

goes without saying that the higher you are, the better of a shot you're getting a serious look. in reality i think you needed to be closer to top 5% from lower T14 for my judge to be interested, and top 10% from CC if not also HYS, but you'd get past the clerks with the above grades. it is worth noting that we were often very bad at figuring out class ranks for schools where none of us went. everyone has a different curve and tries to make their applicants look better in different ways.

i'd also slightly push back against the "you have to have connections" narrative above. my year, my judge hired one person who had a prof my judge trusted call on their behalf. the other three were among the group of people the clerks pulled out, and got good references, but didn't come through some kind of buddy network. i think it just feels like connections must play a huge role because something like the top 10 applications, total, got interview invites, and a lot of those people are getting interest from several chambers. so being "competitive" is not the same as actually having a good shot. i agree with the other person who stressed random idiosyncracies; my judge had a bunch, though i don't want to say specifically what they were because i think some of them are particular to his/her chambers. ultimately all of the people we interviewed but didn't offer or who withdrew before an offer landed in other good clerkships. i had no idea how i got hired after looking at the quality of applications we got.

What is top 25% at HYS anyway? Basically all Hs or any Ps offset by DS/Book prizes? i suppose I'm having a hard time seeing how crunching gpa numbers through weighing credit hours etc. is a good use of clerks' time.

All H's (or P's offset by DS) would be Magna level, which is top 10%. Cum laude (top 40th%) is 3.6 or so. I dont think anyone really knows anything besides Magna and cum laude level (so top 5% or top 25% really isnt possible). Note that it matters how judges weight DS's, they could do anything from assign them a full extra point to assign them no weight. Point being, the GPA cutoffs are largely fictions outside of Magna and cum laude-- you just need good grades.

So how I'm reading this is, the difference between say, 11 H/4 P and 13 H / 2 P (or whatever) isn't important because once you get more than 2 Ps or something you're lumped together as "cum laude/good grades but not magna."

Also wondering how other factors like LR and work experience play in to the grades calculus. Does LR or a district court clerkship or MBB consulting or what have you sometimes makes up for cum laude grades with judges who normally require magna (as was the case I think with some HLR folks I knew)? Or do those only come in after the grades cut happens?

I suppose there's no point in dissecting this opaque process as nauseam but it's Friday and I don't want to write this brief anymore

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any intel on Boulware (D. Nev.)?

[Anonymous User]

Anderson (11th Circuit) is full per form email.

[Anonymous User]

So how I'm reading this is, the difference between say, 11 H/4 P and 13 H / 2 P (or whatever) isn't important because once you get more than 2 Ps or something you're lumped together as "cum laude/good grades but not magna."

Also wondering how other factors like LR and work experience play in to the grades calculus. Does LR or a district court clerkship or MBB consulting or what have you sometimes makes up for cum laude grades with judges who normally require magna (as was the case I think with some HLR folks I knew)? Or do those only come in after the grades cut happens?

I suppose there's no point in dissecting this opaque process as nauseam but it's Friday and I don't want to write this brief anymore

Generally, yeah I think the big deals are making the cutoffs of magna or cum laude (especially for private firm hiring). But I wouldnt say its completely "not important," because its entirely possible that some judge somewhere, for some reason, filters at 12 H's. (Also, even if a judge filters at 10 H's, it is still better to have 14 than 10, obviously). I'm just saying its a fiction to say that corresponds to "Top 20%" (or whatever). All we (and any judges) know is that it falls between 10% and 40%.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on Kimba Wood (SDNY)/any other SDNY judges who are still hiring?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if Nathan (SDNY) has finished making offers?

[Anonymous User]

The feeders are all basically done on DC/9th/2nd. I can't imagine that many more interview invites will go out w/ how few spots there are and the # of interviews already offered.

Does this include Owens in CA9 and Lohier in CA2?

Both have been moving and are likely full or close to it.

Any confirmation Owens CA9 is full?

[Anonymous User]

The feeders are all basically done on DC/9th/2nd. I can't imagine that many more interview invites will go out w/ how few spots there are and the # of interviews already offered.

Does this include Owens in CA9 and Lohier in CA2?

Both have been moving and are likely full or close to it.

Any confirmation Owens CA9 is full?

[Anonymous User]

Any updates on DC Cir for 22? Other than Millett, none of the ones with spots on OSCAR have updated.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if Nathan (SDNY) has finished making offers?

She's been done for a while. She has one 2022-23 slot but won't fill it for a while.

[Anonymous User]

The feeders are all basically done on DC/9th/2nd. I can't imagine that many more interview invites will go out w/ how few spots there are and the # of interviews already offered.

Does this include Owens in CA9 and Lohier in CA2?

Both have been moving and are likely full or close to it.

Any confirmation Owens CA9 is full?

For quite some time.

[Anonymous User]

So how I'm reading this is, the difference between say, 11 H/4 P and 13 H / 2 P (or whatever) isn't important because once you get more than 2 Ps or something you're lumped together as "cum laude/good grades but not magna."

Also wondering how other factors like LR and work experience play in to the grades calculus. Does LR or a district court clerkship or MBB consulting or what have you sometimes makes up for cum laude grades with judges who normally require magna (as was the case I think with some HLR folks I knew)? Or do those only come in after the grades cut happens?

I suppose there's no point in dissecting this opaque process as nauseam but it's Friday and I don't want to write this brief anymore

I had a prominent feeder judge tell me in my interview that they thought my MBB consulting experience helped set me apart. My grades were good enough to be a competitive applicant, but not perfect. Got the offer.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on Kimba Wood (SDNY)/any other SDNY judges who are still hiring?

Wood (SDNY) has hired at least one for 2021.

[Anonymous User]

For hope for those outside of the T20:

T35 with top 5% grades, primary and secondary journal leadership + published notes, other strong softs, and four district court interviews (1 coastal and 3 midwestern) in the next couple of weeks. (I am extraordinarily lucky, but am sharing this to show that even people outside the T20 can get interviews.)

Poster of above here, just sharing that I got and accepted an offer from one of these judges! Really lucky, and hope everybody here gets something good. This board has been a great resource for me.

[Anonymous User]

For hope for those outside of the T20:

T35 with top 5% grades, primary and secondary journal leadership + published notes, other strong softs, and four district court interviews (1 coastal and 3 midwestern) in the next couple of weeks. (I am extraordinarily lucky, but am sharing this to show that even people outside the T20 can get interviews.)

Poster of above here, just sharing that I got and accepted an offer from one of these judges! Really lucky, and hope everybody here gets something good. This board has been a great resource for me.

Congrats and thanks for following up!

[Anonymous User]

Anyone who has been on the hiring side have any insight as to how a transfer to HYS might be perceived in the more competitive circuits/districts? Lets say T10% at at T1 for 1L then T10% at the new school (only on one semester due to covid).

With COVID-19, I imagine it's kind of hard to judge someone based on just one semester of grades at the new school unless you totally crushed it. But it's possible to do very well in the process—transfer friend got a couple of feeder judge interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone who has been on the hiring side have any insight as to how a transfer to HYS might be perceived in the more competitive circuits/districts? Lets say T10% at at T1 for 1L then T10% at the new school (only on one semester due to covid).

With COVID-19, I imagine it's kind of hard to judge someone based on just one semester of grades at the new school unless you totally crushed it. But it's possible to do very well in the process—transfer friend got a couple of feeder judge interviews.

Some people just don't like transfers. Columbia, NYU, and Georgetown all get a legion every year.

Otherwise, you should be fine, as long as your good marks in are in black letter courses, which would show that you're able to perform on the same level as other YHS students.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone who has been on the hiring side have any insight as to how a transfer to HYS might be perceived in the more competitive circuits/districts? Lets say T10% at at T1 for 1L then T10% at the new school (only on one semester due to covid).

With COVID-19, I imagine it's kind of hard to judge someone based on just one semester of grades at the new school unless you totally crushed it. But it's possible to do very well in the process—transfer friend got a couple of feeder judge interviews.

Some people just don't like transfers. Columbia, NYU, and Georgetown all get a legion every year.

Otherwise, you should be fine, as long as your good marks in are in black letter courses, which would show that you're able to perform on the same level as other YHS students.

Previous anon poster: I should've clarified that this was at HYS and they crushed it. YMMV.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement with Diaz, Wilkinson, or Wynn in CA4?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone who has been on the hiring side have any insight as to how a transfer to HYS might be perceived in the more competitive circuits/districts? Lets say T10% at at T1 for 1L then T10% at the new school (only on one semester due to covid).

With COVID-19, I imagine it's kind of hard to judge someone based on just one semester of grades at the new school unless you totally crushed it. But it's possible to do very well in the process—transfer friend got a couple of feeder judge interviews.

Some people just don't like transfers. Columbia, NYU, and Georgetown all get a legion every year.

Otherwise, you should be fine, as long as your good marks in are in black letter courses, which would show that you're able to perform on the same level as other YHS students.

Previous anon poster: I should've clarified that this was at HYS and they crushed it. YMMV.

Initial anon of this mini-thread: understanding that I take your main point, would you care to put a finer point to "crushed it" in comparison to say, on pace for Magna at HYS with competent course selection?

[Anonymous User]

Any movement with Diaz, Wilkinson, or Wynn in CA4?

Diaz has interviewed and given offers.

[Anonymous User]

Any movement from Harris (4th)?