2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

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Burgerking14

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Burgerking14 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:27 pm

Anyone know if Judge Carter (CDCA) has made offers?

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:32 pm

Burgerking14 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:27 pm
Anyone know if Judge Carter (CDCA) has made offers?
Per OSCAR, he's done hiring.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:05 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:52 am
Ellison (S.D. Tex) is full--says he got more than 450 applicants.
Ellison sent the nicest rejection email ever. I'm not even mad.
As someone who didn't apply to Ellison, could anyone else put his rejection email here? I feel like we're all in need of it these days
In the category of nice rejections, I’m skeptical anything can top Williams & Connolly’s ultra-classy personalized notes from the interviewer on paper stationary that they send out at OCI.
It's on OSCAR and it's indeed very classy.

I have concluded clerkship hiring for the 2021 – 22 term. Each year at this time, I keenly regret the process that we have. Our chambers had more than 450 applications reach us, and I found it impossible fairly to consider the merits of each of them. In normal years, I get to meet only a few of the applicants, and this year – because of the pandemic – I met none.

I do remain available to speak with any of you about clerkship opportunities. And, if any of you find yourselves in downtown Houston with time to spare, I hope you will stop by to see us on the third floor of the federal courthouse. No appointment is necessary and we always have refreshments on hand.

For now, I extend best wishes for careers of satisfaction and justice.

Cordially,
Keith P. Ellison

I know that Hardiman also offers to help rejected applicants (or at least ones who get interviews) with clerkships, career advice, etc.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:05 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:52 am
Ellison (S.D. Tex) is full--says he got more than 450 applicants.
Ellison sent the nicest rejection email ever. I'm not even mad.
As someone who didn't apply to Ellison, could anyone else put his rejection email here? I feel like we're all in need of it these days
In the category of nice rejections, I’m skeptical anything can top Williams & Connolly’s ultra-classy personalized notes from the interviewer on paper stationary that they send out at OCI.
That’s funny, I made it to the callback stage at W&C and they just sent me a form letter. And they don’t offer like half the people they call back at my HYS so it’s not even like I am some outlier asshole (although cannot confirm I’m not either :lol: )

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:51 pm

Has anyone done an in-person interview this cycle? Did you wear a mask during the interview, sit six-feet away, etc.?

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:51 pm
Has anyone done an in-person interview this cycle? Did you wear a mask during the interview, sit six-feet away, etc.?
I am not aware of any judges who are doing in-person interviews right now.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:51 pm
Has anyone done an in-person interview this cycle? Did you wear a mask during the interview, sit six-feet away, etc.?
I have. I wore a mask to the courthouse, but I took it off in chambers. We did the interview inside one of the courtrooms so we could have six feet of distance between us. It was surprisingly awkward to meet so many new people without shaking their hands. I think I was the only non-judge/clerk in the whole courthouse, and this was in a huge building in a major city. It was a surreal and very interesting experience. No offer yet . . .

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 pm

Any rising 3Ls with a 2021-2023 D. Ct. clerkship starting to look into 2023-2024 COA clerkship? If I am interested in 2023-2024 when should I ideally be applying?

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 pm
Any rising 3Ls with a 2021-2023 D. Ct. clerkship starting to look into 2023-2024 COA clerkship? If I am interested in 2023-2024 when should I ideally be applying?
Also curious about this

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 pm
Any rising 3Ls with a 2021-2023 D. Ct. clerkship starting to look into 2023-2024 COA clerkship? If I am interested in 2023-2024 when should I ideally be applying?
This is my situation exactly. There's already a few COA judges listed on Oscar for 2023, but seems like it will be rolling application process over the next ~2 years with judges hiring whenever they want.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 pm
Any rising 3Ls with a 2021-2023 D. Ct. clerkship starting to look into 2023-2024 COA clerkship? If I am interested in 2023-2024 when should I ideally be applying?
Also curious about this
I have a D. Ct. for 2022 and have started looking. The COA judge I interviewed with brought up 2023 and some other more competitive judges seem to be looking, but not like aggressively. Seems like most will hire in two waves: one next summer (lots of on plan judges were looking mainly for 22 this year) and some will wait until summer of 2022.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:09 pm

Should we be thinking most D. Ct. judges on the plan have moved by now?

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by user02139 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:14 pm

Any movement from Walker (D.ME)?

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:09 pm
Should we be thinking most D. Ct. judges on the plan have moved by now?
I would think that any D. Ct. judges that haven't are probably waiting to hire/interview because of the pandemic. Might be a while before they move.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:27 pm

user02139 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:14 pm
Any movement from Walker (D.ME)?
Nothing since the first email saying they'd be in touch if necessary.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:28 pm

user02139 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:14 pm
Any movement from Walker (D.ME)?
friend interviewed earlier this week; seemed as if he already had made a decision.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:29 pm

anyone hear anything about Gordon (D. Nev, accepted only by mail)

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:51 pm
Has anyone done an in-person interview this cycle? Did you wear a mask during the interview, sit six-feet away, etc.?
I have. I wore a mask to the courthouse, but I took it off in chambers. We did the interview inside one of the courtrooms so we could have six feet of distance between us. It was surprisingly awkward to meet so many new people without shaking their hands. I think I was the only non-judge/clerk in the whole courthouse, and this was in a huge building in a major city. It was a surreal and very interesting experience. No offer yet . . .

I have as well. Had to wear a mask to get inside the courthouse, but in chambers, neither the judge nor clerks bothered with social distancing.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 pm
Any rising 3Ls with a 2021-2023 D. Ct. clerkship starting to look into 2023-2024 COA clerkship? If I am interested in 2023-2024 when should I ideally be applying?
Also curious about this
I have a D. Ct. for 2022 and have started looking. The COA judge I interviewed with brought up 2023 and some other more competitive judges seem to be looking, but not like aggressively. Seems like most will hire in two waves: one next summer (lots of on plan judges were looking mainly for 22 this year) and some will wait until summer of 2022.
Related to this, if I'm looking at COA for 22 (have district in 21) should I be applying really broadly right now? or is it safe to apply pretty selectively on the assumption that the majority of '22 COA judges will still have slots next year?

Basically I'm asking whether I should send 40-50 applications like I did for 21 now, or whether I should wait until next year for the big push.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 pm
Any rising 3Ls with a 2021-2023 D. Ct. clerkship starting to look into 2023-2024 COA clerkship? If I am interested in 2023-2024 when should I ideally be applying?
Also curious about this
I have a D. Ct. for 2022 and have started looking. The COA judge I interviewed with brought up 2023 and some other more competitive judges seem to be looking, but not like aggressively. Seems like most will hire in two waves: one next summer (lots of on plan judges were looking mainly for 22 this year) and some will wait until summer of 2022.
Related to this, if I'm looking at COA for 22 (have district in 21) should I be applying really broadly right now? or is it safe to apply pretty selectively on the assumption that the majority of '22 COA judges will still have slots next year?

Basically I'm asking whether I should send 40-50 applications like I did for 21 now, or whether I should wait until next year for the big push.
You should set up OSCAR notifications for the states / circuits you want, and apply as judges post openings for the 2022-23 term. I'm not sure it's as much of a binary as you suggest, given the hiring plan allows consideration of 3Ls at any time.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:28 pm
Any rising 3Ls with a 2021-2023 D. Ct. clerkship starting to look into 2023-2024 COA clerkship? If I am interested in 2023-2024 when should I ideally be applying?
Also curious about this
I have a D. Ct. for 2022 and have started looking. The COA judge I interviewed with brought up 2023 and some other more competitive judges seem to be looking, but not like aggressively. Seems like most will hire in two waves: one next summer (lots of on plan judges were looking mainly for 22 this year) and some will wait until summer of 2022.
Related to this, if I'm looking at COA for 22 (have district in 21) should I be applying really broadly right now? or is it safe to apply pretty selectively on the assumption that the majority of '22 COA judges will still have slots next year?

Basically I'm asking whether I should send 40-50 applications like I did for 21 now, or whether I should wait until next year for the big push.
A lot of appellate judges, especially Republican appointees and 2/9/DC, are already filling or full for 22. You have two bites at the apple which is nice but it's now or never for enough that I'd apply pretty broadly.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:33 pm

[Double post]

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:30 pm

For those feeling dejected due to the process so far, I can tell you this from having reviewed applications on both the D. Ct. and COA levels: It's hard to stand out. That's why connections matter. We get significantly more applicants who have stellar credentials and are qualified for the job than we have slots to fill (even interview slots to fill). It's hard to get out of the pile. And even if you do, it's hard to survive the weeding down that happens.

For example, my COA judge (who isn't/wasn't a feeder or on the DC/2/9) had a preference (but not a requirement) that applicants clerk before they come to work for him/her. Due to that preference, I was able to ignore all of the people applying from straight out of law school except for the absolute superstars/perfect fits (because I knew he/she rarely hired straight out of law school). Even after weeding out all those applicants and weeding out people who didn't have sufficient credentials, I was left with a list of 50+ applicants (all who had impressive clerkships and grades). From there, I weeded out the people who didn't really seem to have a good reason to clerk for my judge other than a notch in the belt.

That got me down to 20-25. From there, I was able to get to my final list that I presented to the judge by picking the candidates from that group who checked as many of my judge's idiosyncratic boxes as possible (ties to the region, veterans, the law schools from which he/she prefers to hire, clerkships with judges he/she knows and respects, etc.). Each law clerk in my chambers had to make his/her own list independently. The judge also made his/her own list and compared against ours to decide on interviews.

What my point here is that this thing is very idiosyncratic, connections mean the world (there are people who got pulled from the pile and immediately were given interviews because of who advocated on their behalf with the judge), there are way too many impressive and qualified people, and the choices of who does and doesn't get interviews is pretty arbitrary. That's just the game. If you don't have the connections or credentials that are so otherworldly you're guaranteed to get out of the pile, you just have to apply to enough judges to get lucky. When I saw the quality of applicants (and the quantity of those quality applicants), it made me say, "Damn, I got lucky as hell." And I did. I just happened to know the right person, which got me out of the pile.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:30 pm
For those feeling dejected due to the process so far, I can tell you this from having reviewed applications on both the D. Ct. and COA levels: It's hard to stand out.
That certainly doesn't make me feel any better, but I do appreciate the insight.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:43 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:30 pm
For those feeling dejected due to the process so far, I can tell you this from having reviewed applications on both the D. Ct. and COA levels: It's hard to stand out.
That certainly doesn't make me feel any better, but I do appreciate the insight.
I think it shows that unless you have a connection or stellar stats, you don't have high odds of being pulled from any particular judge, but idiosyncrasies matter a lot, which is slightly comforting given that we've got 100 shots for ours to line up with the judge's. And what I'm guessing is the most common idiosyncrasy that matters (regional ties) actually probably works in applicants' favor by making them more likely to get jobs in places that work well for them.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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