2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

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PistolBrad74

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by PistolBrad74 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:11 am

PWADatUNC wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:07 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:00 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:50 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:24 am
Curious if there’s any equivalent of “YP” for clerkship apps. I’m one of those top 10% HYSCCN people with a bunch of interviews and curiously all are with relatively well-known/respected judges (I’m not trying to complain or brag and realize that I’ve just lucked out in this crapshoot so far). That could just be a result of who moved yesterday or luck, but I imagine judges don’t like being turned down just like firms and schools.
Was wondering about this too. As a counterpoint though, I'm HYS top 25% (probably) and LR, and no bites from COA. Have a DCt interview later today in a semi-competitive district, but not SDNY/DDC level. That seems in line with my stats IMO.

If anything this tells me that, for all the softs we like to tell ourselves are important (LR, secondary journal eboard, moot court, interesting WE) aren't actually all that important for the most competitive judges and are really just icing on the cake to distinguish the magna people from each other.
Maybe this is a dumb question, but what is a "YP"
Yield Protection
Just wondering, why would a judge yield protect? I was under the impression that judges would do the opposite, schedule interviews with the best candidates right away in hopes of snagging them before another judge offered them.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by GoneSouth » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:50 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:24 am
Curious if there’s any equivalent of “YP” for clerkship apps. I’m one of those top 10% HYSCCN people with a bunch of interviews and curiously all are with relatively well-known/respected judges (I’m not trying to complain or brag and realize that I’ve just lucked out in this crapshoot so far). That could just be a result of who moved yesterday or luck, but I imagine judges don’t like being turned down just like firms and schools.
Was wondering about this too. As a counterpoint though, I'm HYS top 25% (probably) and LR, and no bites from COA. Have a DCt interview later today in a semi-competitive district, but not SDNY/DDC level. That seems in line with my stats IMO.

If anything this tells me that, for all the softs we like to tell ourselves are important (LR, secondary journal eboard, moot court, interesting WE) aren't actually all that important for the most competitive judges and are really just icing on the cake to distinguish the magna people from each other.
Current clerk here. I think that’s partially a function of the plan. When you have to get through 200+ applications in a day to be ready to interview Tuesday, it’s natural that grades become the easiest way to compare between 30 applications from, say, HLS. And once you’ve culled the stack down to people with good grades, you’re able to take a closer look at the ones that made the cut and the other stuff can make a difference. But if you don’t have the grades to start with, the softs probably aren’t going to make up for that.

Having seen it from this side, I’ve become quite pessimistic about the plan. In my view, it hurts far more people than it helps, both on the applicant side and judge side

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:14 am

Day two Fam. Do we expect more or less movement today?

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HenryHankPalmer

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by HenryHankPalmer » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:14 am
Day two Fam. Do we expect more or less movement today?
Hoping for more, but I have no idea what to expect at this point.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:14 am
Day two Fam. Do we expect more or less movement today?
I can't get any less movement than I did yesterday, so here's hoping...

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desiperc

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by desiperc » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:37 am

I'm hoping people who haven't got calls will get at least one today or before the end of the summer. Here's hoping.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:50 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:24 am
Curious if there’s any equivalent of “YP” for clerkship apps. I’m one of those top 10% HYSCCN people with a bunch of interviews and curiously all are with relatively well-known/respected judges (I’m not trying to complain or brag and realize that I’ve just lucked out in this crapshoot so far). That could just be a result of who moved yesterday or luck, but I imagine judges don’t like being turned down just like firms and schools.
Was wondering about this too. As a counterpoint though, I'm HYS top 25% (probably) and LR, and no bites from COA. Have a DCt interview later today in a semi-competitive district, but not SDNY/DDC level. That seems in line with my stats IMO.

If anything this tells me that, for all the softs we like to tell ourselves are important (LR, secondary journal eboard, moot court, interesting WE) aren't actually all that important for the most competitive judges and are really just icing on the cake to distinguish the magna people from each other.
I'm not so sure about this. At least LR seems really important. I'm top 10% HYS and have only had two interviews in less-competitive metropolitan districts (think E.D. La., N.D. Ga., S.D. Fla., E.D. Cal.). I feel like if I had LR I'd have gotten a major district interview or a COA by now

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:51 am

Is getting ghosted by a judge/clerks normal or do they usually let you know you won’t get an offer? I’m a 3L and had one interview a while back (as in like a month ago now) and never heard anything.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:51 am
Is getting ghosted by a judge/clerks normal or do they usually let you know you won’t get an offer? I’m a 3L and had one interview a while back (as in like a month ago now) and never heard anything.
I've gone months (like six or more) before hearing, if at all.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:51 am
Is getting ghosted by a judge/clerks normal or do they usually let you know you won’t get an offer? I’m a 3L and had one interview a while back (as in like a month ago now) and never heard anything.
same position. I guess you know you've actually been rejected when you see that the position is filled on Oscar

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:51 am
Is getting ghosted by a judge/clerks normal or do they usually let you know you won’t get an offer? I’m a 3L and had one interview a while back (as in like a month ago now) and never heard anything.
You usually are told by snail mail if you didn't get it, but post-interview ghosting does happen.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:51 am
Is getting ghosted by a judge/clerks normal or do they usually let you know you won’t get an offer? I’m a 3L and had one interview a while back (as in like a month ago now) and never heard anything.
Had a D.Ct. interview 3 months back and never heard anything. Judge is still interviewing but I'm pretty sure she moved on re: my application

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:21 am

Any movement today so far?

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:49 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:50 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:24 am
Curious if there’s any equivalent of “YP” for clerkship apps. I’m one of those top 10% HYSCCN people with a bunch of interviews and curiously all are with relatively well-known/respected judges (I’m not trying to complain or brag and realize that I’ve just lucked out in this crapshoot so far). That could just be a result of who moved yesterday or luck, but I imagine judges don’t like being turned down just like firms and schools.
Was wondering about this too. As a counterpoint though, I'm HYS top 25% (probably) and LR, and no bites from COA. Have a DCt interview later today in a semi-competitive district, but not SDNY/DDC level. That seems in line with my stats IMO.

If anything this tells me that, for all the softs we like to tell ourselves are important (LR, secondary journal eboard, moot court, interesting WE) aren't actually all that important for the most competitive judges and are really just icing on the cake to distinguish the magna people from each other.
I'm not so sure about this. At least LR seems really important. I'm top 10% HYS and have only had two interviews in less-competitive metropolitan districts (think E.D. La., N.D. Ga., S.D. Fla., E.D. Cal.). I feel like if I had LR I'd have gotten a major district interview or a COA by now
I guess my point was, you really need both. Same deal, I feel like with your grades I'd have a few non feeder coa interviews.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:38 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:49 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:50 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:24 am
Curious if there’s any equivalent of “YP” for clerkship apps. I’m one of those top 10% HYSCCN people with a bunch of interviews and curiously all are with relatively well-known/respected judges (I’m not trying to complain or brag and realize that I’ve just lucked out in this crapshoot so far). That could just be a result of who moved yesterday or luck, but I imagine judges don’t like being turned down just like firms and schools.
Was wondering about this too. As a counterpoint though, I'm HYS top 25% (probably) and LR, and no bites from COA. Have a DCt interview later today in a semi-competitive district, but not SDNY/DDC level. That seems in line with my stats IMO.

If anything this tells me that, for all the softs we like to tell ourselves are important (LR, secondary journal eboard, moot court, interesting WE) aren't actually all that important for the most competitive judges and are really just icing on the cake to distinguish the magna people from each other.
I'm not so sure about this. At least LR seems really important. I'm top 10% HYS and have only had two interviews in less-competitive metropolitan districts (think E.D. La., N.D. Ga., S.D. Fla., E.D. Cal.). I feel like if I had LR I'd have gotten a major district interview or a COA by now
I guess my point was, you really need both. Same deal, I feel like with your grades I'd have a few non feeder coa interviews.
Disagree. HYS friend without journal interviewed with feeders on 2/9/DC.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:01 pm

Former clerk here, just as a general comment on the possible YP chain: if you're punching above where you expect to be based on your stats, don't underestimate the possibility that your rec letters could be superb. Most applicants have no idea what's in their rec letters and I feel like TLS sometimes discounts the role they play for that reason. Especially on "Plan Day," when you're looking through 12 applications from Harvard that all appear to be about the same (maybe an HLR here balanced out by another shiny resume line there), a rec letter from a professor saying you were the best in their class is going to stand out and help the judge prioritize who to call. But the applicant will probably never know that the letter is what made the difference.

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ayylmao

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by ayylmao » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:56 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:38 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:49 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:50 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:24 am
Curious if there’s any equivalent of “YP” for clerkship apps. I’m one of those top 10% HYSCCN people with a bunch of interviews and curiously all are with relatively well-known/respected judges (I’m not trying to complain or brag and realize that I’ve just lucked out in this crapshoot so far). That could just be a result of who moved yesterday or luck, but I imagine judges don’t like being turned down just like firms and schools.
Was wondering about this too. As a counterpoint though, I'm HYS top 25% (probably) and LR, and no bites from COA. Have a DCt interview later today in a semi-competitive district, but not SDNY/DDC level. That seems in line with my stats IMO.

If anything this tells me that, for all the softs we like to tell ourselves are important (LR, secondary journal eboard, moot court, interesting WE) aren't actually all that important for the most competitive judges and are really just icing on the cake to distinguish the magna people from each other.
I'm not so sure about this. At least LR seems really important. I'm top 10% HYS and have only had two interviews in less-competitive metropolitan districts (think E.D. La., N.D. Ga., S.D. Fla., E.D. Cal.). I feel like if I had LR I'd have gotten a major district interview or a COA by now
I guess my point was, you really need both. Same deal, I feel like with your grades I'd have a few non feeder coa interviews.
Disagree. HYS friend without journal interviewed with feeders on 2/9/DC.
That happens, but my observation—from the position of a 2020 HYS grad—is that folks like your friend tend to have done SCOTUS clinic and therefore have a golden resume item as well as heavy hitters going to bat for them.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:18 pm

ayylmao wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:08 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:56 am

Disagree. HYS friend without journal interviewed with feeders on 2/9/DC.
That happens, but my observation—from the position of a 2020 HYS grad—is that folks your friend tend to have done SCOTUS clinic and therefore have a golden resume item as well as heavy hitters going to bat for them.
This. Also, as a general note (from a recent HYS grad), please know that many people who are super qualified, super hard working, super smart, maybe even geniuses, often also have family connections.

If that's not totally clear to you now as 2Ls, it may start slowly trickling out over the coming year. You start to find out that XYZ people who are objective law school rock stars (and of course, some who are not objective rock stars) also happen to have family connections that you were not aware of (some people are classy enough to refrain from making this stuff widely known the second you meet them, or ever). I know of a solid handful of DC Cir. clerks who are magna, LR, aaaaaannnd it also turns out that papa is bffl with Fancy Judges.

Absolutely not commenting on the above poster's friend, who I obviously don't know and may just have great grades, recs, etc. A good chunk of people get these gigs through merit and luck alone. But lots do not.

Just saying this as a general reminder to people who are getting down about themselves right now.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by lookatriffraffplease » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:18 pm

Not a peep for me today after one interview yesterday...let's hope that turns into an offer

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:01 pm
Former clerk here, just as a general comment on the possible YP chain: if you're punching above where you expect to be based on your stats, don't underestimate the possibility that your rec letters could be superb. Most applicants have no idea what's in their rec letters and I feel like TLS sometimes discounts the role they play for that reason. Especially on "Plan Day," when you're looking through 12 applications from Harvard that all appear to be about the same (maybe an HLR here balanced out by another shiny resume line there), a rec letter from a professor saying you were the best in their class is going to stand out and help the judge prioritize who to call. But the applicant will probably never know that the letter is what made the difference.
What does a steller rec letter look like - I imagine mine would say something like that, as as I got two of mine from professors who gave me our equivalent of A+'s (which is best in class), but I don't think that's tipping the scales anywhere for me given the interest I'm currently receiving.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:01 pm
Former clerk here, just as a general comment on the possible YP chain: if you're punching above where you expect to be based on your stats, don't underestimate the possibility that your rec letters could be superb. Most applicants have no idea what's in their rec letters and I feel like TLS sometimes discounts the role they play for that reason. Especially on "Plan Day," when you're looking through 12 applications from Harvard that all appear to be about the same (maybe an HLR here balanced out by another shiny resume line there), a rec letter from a professor saying you were the best in their class is going to stand out and help the judge prioritize who to call. But the applicant will probably never know that the letter is what made the difference.
What does a steller rec letter look like - I imagine mine would say something like that, as as I got two of mine from professors who gave me our equivalent of A+'s (which is best in class), but I don't think that's tipping the scales anywhere for me given the interest I'm currently receiving.
I might be wrong here but I think the vast majority of judges have not reached out yet...If you were gunning for Garland you might be SOL but hundreds of judges still have not moved

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:30 pm

Anyone hear of any movement from the DDC conservatives other than Friedrich yet?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by beepboopbeep » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:01 pm
Former clerk here, just as a general comment on the possible YP chain: if you're punching above where you expect to be based on your stats, don't underestimate the possibility that your rec letters could be superb. Most applicants have no idea what's in their rec letters and I feel like TLS sometimes discounts the role they play for that reason. Especially on "Plan Day," when you're looking through 12 applications from Harvard that all appear to be about the same (maybe an HLR here balanced out by another shiny resume line there), a rec letter from a professor saying you were the best in their class is going to stand out and help the judge prioritize who to call. But the applicant will probably never know that the letter is what made the difference.
What does a steller rec letter look like - I imagine mine would say something like that, as as I got two of mine from professors who gave me our equivalent of A+'s (which is best in class), but I don't think that's tipping the scales anywhere for me given the interest I'm currently receiving.
Another former clerk who agrees with the previous anon former clerk -- we saw a lot of rec letters from the "got an A+ in my class" crowd, and they are sometimes but not always the best. If that's the only thing that prof knows about you, it's probably not a very good rec letter. If you were going to office hours all the time, or also used that professor to advise your law review comment (such that they can speak more directly to your research and writing and interpersonal qualities), that's better. I think the best ones are truly superlative -- this person is one of the three best students i've taught at ____ law school -- with concrete examples of what makes them so good, borne out of repeated exposure. It can also help if a prof writes a few letters for different candidates, such that we could directly compare, but that can be a downside if one of your classmates gets a superlative rec and you don't. One of the best rec letters I ever saw was by someone who gave an applicant a middling grade in their own class (one of the few mediocre grades on a candidate's transcript), but who had been their mentor through a school scholarship program and just could not hold back what felt like truly genuine enthusiasm toward the candidate as a person.

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:01 pm
Former clerk here, just as a general comment on the possible YP chain: if you're punching above where you expect to be based on your stats, don't underestimate the possibility that your rec letters could be superb. Most applicants have no idea what's in their rec letters and I feel like TLS sometimes discounts the role they play for that reason. Especially on "Plan Day," when you're looking through 12 applications from Harvard that all appear to be about the same (maybe an HLR here balanced out by another shiny resume line there), a rec letter from a professor saying you were the best in their class is going to stand out and help the judge prioritize who to call. But the applicant will probably never know that the letter is what made the difference.
What does a steller rec letter look like - I imagine mine would say something like that, as as I got two of mine from professors who gave me our equivalent of A+'s (which is best in class), but I don't think that's tipping the scales anywhere for me given the interest I'm currently receiving.
Realistically, I think a stellar rec oftentimes means more than the rec itself and includes calls/back-channeling through personal connections

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Re: 2021-2022 Clerkship Application Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:33 pm

Checking in. I graduated from a T10 with honors and have pretty strong soft factors (and work experience). This isn't my first application cycle and in the past I've only been dinged. Hoping this cycle is different...but I am sure I have still reached too high.

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