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Current clerk here. I was wondering if some of you could share your experiences writing opinions. My judge gives me full autonomy to write whatever I want after he and I discuss our thoughts (we agree on virtually everything so I think that's why I enjoy so much autonomy). However, I'll send him my final opinion and he always make substantial changes before sending it out. He'll say to me "X opinion was well-done but I think we needed a little more with respect to this topic" or "I took out a bit with respect to this topic because I didn't want to fall down that rabbit hole." Is this normal? Sometimes I wonder if I'm not doing as well as I should be doing. Do your judges release your opinions basically unchanged?

His comments don't sound negative to me -- they sound pretty standard, in fact. I think substantial editing of clerk drafts is the norm across the board. It's the judges' names on the opinions after all, not ours. Unless you are getting distinctively critical comments I wouldn't worry about it. Or unless your unpublished/non-argument opinions are getting serious edits. That would worry me more.

This is a good thing, and you should not be self-conscious about your legal writing unless you're making the same, objective mistakes that need to be corrected time and time again.

If your judge is consistently approving opinions without edit, it just means that you're losing an opportunity to improve your writing. It certainly doesn't mean that your writing can't improve.

Thanks. Really appreciate both of your responses.

On a somewhat related note, how do I submit writing samples if all my opinions have the judge's edits? Would I submit my draft that I sent to the judge before he edited (with his permission of course) or would I just submit the published opinion and trust that firms understand it was a joint effort?

You should talk to your judge about what he's comfortable with you using for writing samples. I did not use anything I drafted during my clerkship for one, primarily because I knew my judge did not want internal chambers material going out, even just for the purposes of employment -- it's not hard to compare that to the final version and see the results of the editing process, which gives a window to the judge's thinking that the public normally does not have access to. (Similar story with bench memos/etc.)

That level of editing happened quite often during my clerkships to all the clerks in chambers. It's totally normal and not a bad sign, unless your judge has very unusual expectations or you're not implementing feedback he's already given you in prior drafts.

Do not submit a published opinion as your writing sample. A firm won't be able to tell exactly what your contribution was, and it also registers as a little oblivious to clerking norms (i.e., the judge is typically considered the only author of one of his opinions). It's also an ethical problem to the extent that it reveals that you were the primary clerk on a particular matter.

Submitting a solo draft, from before the judge edits, takes care of some of these problems, but not necessarily all of them (and it sometimes introduces others, like beepboopbeep said). I'd ask your judge pretty early in the process how he deals with this - some heavy redacting/modifying might be necessary (and some judges don't allow the use of any chambers material at all).

Anon just so this can't be connected to any specific judges. I clerked for one judge who revised every single thing I wrote, major cases going up to as many as 10 drafts. They always went over these drafts with me (the judge was very very invested in making sure I understood their legal reasoning and editing choices so we went over everything at great length), so I saw all the changes before they went out, but there were lots of changes, even if subtle.

I clerked for another judge and a number of things I wrote for them did go out essentially unchanged, although certainly with more substantial legal issues we discussed stuff along the way. This judge's strengths/interests just lay in different areas than pure writing/research. Also, this was my second clerkship so I had learned a LOT from the first judge, and a lot of stuff is fairly routine.

But in the end, everything that went out was under the judge's name, not mine, so of course they change stuff. There is *absolutely* no expectation that a clerk should be churning out perfect pieces that require no revisions. Judges even revise career clerks' writing where they think it's necessary.

And FWIW, something that I definitely had to learn was the not-falling-down-a-rabbit-hole part. I think starting a clerkship, it's really easy to feel like you have to address every argument the parties throw out there with equal depth/gravity. However, as a judge (or career clerk), when you've seen so many briefs, you learn what you really need to address, as well as what are kind of hail marys, and there's a lot of merit in not addressing issues you don't have to address to resolve the case. So that kind of revision by a judge of a clerk's writing is, I think, extremely common.

Re: writing samples - yes, talk to your judge. My second judge was fine with me using an order that they had made essentially no changes to, but both my judges were on the very relaxed end of the judicial protocol spectrum.

Re: writing samples, it's up to the judge. If he prefers you to use the final draft that has his edits over, you can do so by flagging that it has been edited in the cover page to the writing sample. Obviously you want to use something that he edited minimally and superficially so you can honestly represent that the opinion substantially represents your work product.

Obviously don't submit the WestLaw or Federal Reporter printout of a published opinion. Submit it in the same format that you presented it to the judge and it got filed in.

Nah, that's normal. I had a judge who had a very light touch when it came to editing. Some of the stuff I did went out without any edits, while the others had minor edits or deletions. I had another judge who had less of a light touch, but it still wasn't a heavy hand. There were changes on just about everything and a few rounds of revisions, but nothing crazy. I know some other people who had very heavy-handed editors as judges. It just depends on the judge.

You're not doing anything wrong unless you are repeating the same mistakes or the judge is unhappy with your work.

On the writing sample front, I used a self-edited draft and changed all the party names/case information. Had somebody wanted to find the (slightly different) final version on Westlaw, they could have, but I doubted anyone would care enough. My judge okayed that.