Movement Today Forum

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

[Anonymous User]

How will one bad grade affect hiring chances for an alum with district court experience and decent grades otherwise at T-14? Are you automatically nixing those applications? Applying to less competitive district and circuit.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Yeah I'm a little skeptical about that...

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Yeah I'm a little skeptical about that...

Just because the apps were released yesterday doesn't mean there were not short-lists of people who had trusted professors or other judges, in the case of alumni, call or write so that when the floodgates opened those apps were read/already read and calls were made and then only looking at the pile if those applicants weren't right. There are ways of making this process less daunting than it seems.

[Anonymous User]

Current clerk in a competitive district. We churned through 300+ apps and made calls yesterday. The whole process was kind of disheartening. To narrow down from that many in that amount of time, you really have to sort heavily by schools and grades before giving close reads to a few dozen applications. I'm sure there are great candidates in there that didn't really have a chance, and I'm wondering if they may have had more of a chance in a non-plan system where all the applications didn't come in on the same day.

It really brought home the importance of having a recommender call or email on your behalf. We looked at (and in some cases are interviewing) people we likely wouldn't have pulled out of the OSCAR stack simply because someone the judge knew reached out to her/him.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

@first anon: no one can speak for all judges. If this is a current clerk, they maybe know what went on in their chambers/courthouse and/or in that of places where they have friends clerking. If it's a current applicant, they know where them and their friends got interviews. Given that you didn't specify where you're applying, geographically or level of court, there's no way they can say there's only a straggler or two left. Just wait and see what happens, you never know how judges do things. Some great judges could've been in court most of the day yesterday and wouldn't have had the chance to go through apps.

Also, if you got some calls, focus on those and those interviews. Getting an interview, let alone multiple, is an accomplishment in itself and you should worry about prepping for those and really nailing it instead of stressing about who else might call you. If one of those interviews works out, you never have to deal with this process again.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Yeah I'm a little skeptical about that...

What exactly is there to be skeptical about? (And what are you doing that it takes you a long time to "open up" the paper apps?!) We sorted through applications based on the following: school, grades, law review, and chambers-specific calls/recs. That's not that hard or time-consuming. My judge (CA 2/9/DC) only seriously considers applications from about 4-5 schools in the first place, heavily weights Law Review, and pays attention to the types of courses (high grades in doctrinal courses > seminars). That is not at all hard to do. There's very little value in closely reading generic cover letters or heavily-edited writing samples. This process does not take long to "sort", and if you think every app gets a close read in places like New York City or DC . . . not sure what to tell you.

Edit to add: In this context, T-14 is not nearly as much of a cut-off (i.e., in CA2/9/DC clerkship apps) as the true top 4-5 schools, with a few schools beyond HYS being judge-specific interests. Obviously I can't speak for all judges/chambers here, but have talked a bunch with clerks in other chambers, and we more or less line up on an informal 4-5 top school cut off.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Yeah I'm a little skeptical about that...

What exactly is there to be skeptical about? (And what are you doing that it takes you a long time to "open up" the paper apps?!) We sorted through applications based on the following: school, grades, law review, and chambers-specific calls/recs. That's not that hard or time-consuming. My judge (CA 2/9/DC) only seriously considers applications from about 4-5 schools in the first place, heavily weights Law Review, and pays attention to the types of courses (high grades in doctrinal courses > seminars). That is not at all hard to do. There's very little value in closely reading generic cover letters or heavily-edited writing samples. This process does not take long to "sort", and if you think every app gets a close read in places like New York City or DC . . . not sure what to tell you.

Edit to add: In this context, T-14 is not nearly as much of a cut-off (i.e., in CA2/9/DC clerkship apps) as the true top 4-5 schools, with a few schools beyond HYS being judge-specific interests. Obviously I can't speak for all judges/chambers here, but have talked a bunch with clerks in other chambers, and we more or less line up on an informal 4-5 top school cut off.

I'm skeptical because my career office at a HYSCCN school just let us know there in fact wasn't significant movement yesterday at the district court level beyond a couple of highly competitive districts/judges... so the fact that you're taking your anecdotal knowledge and generalizing it to the entire country makes me skeptical.

[Anonymous User]

I'm skeptical because my career office at a HYSCCN school just let us know there in fact wasn't significant movement yesterday at the district court level beyond a couple of highly competitive districts/judges... so the fact that you're taking your anecdotal knowledge and generalizing it to the entire country makes me skeptical.

The earlier anon didn't generalize to the entire country. They specified 2/9/DC. You said "beyond a couple of highly competitive districts/judges," but the earlier anon is talking about the few most competitive districts and judges. I can confirm the earlier anon's intel that many/most calls went out yesterday with interviews as early as yesterday and today in DC at both district and circuit level.

[Anonymous User]

(And what are you doing that it takes you a long time to "open up" the paper apps?!) We sorted through applications based on the following: school, grades, law review, and chambers-specific calls/recs. That's not that hard or time-consuming. My judge (CA 2/9/DC) only seriously considers applications from about 4-5 schools in the first place, heavily weights Law Review, and pays attention to the types of courses (high grades in doctrinal courses > seminars). That is not at all hard to do. There's very little value in closely reading generic cover letters or heavily-edited writing samples. This process does not take long to "sort", and if you think every app gets a close read in places like New York City or DC . . . not sure what to tell you.

Edit to add: In this context, T-14 is not nearly as much of a cut-off (i.e., in CA2/9/DC clerkship apps) as the true top 4-5 schools, with a few schools beyond HYS being judge-specific interests. Obviously I can't speak for all judges/chambers here, but have talked a bunch with clerks in other chambers, and we more or less line up on an informal 4-5 top school cut off.

When paper apps come in as big envelopes, do you at least open them? Or do you throw away, unopened, all applications that don't come from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, and what, NYU or Columbia? Plus the judge's undergrad?

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Yeah I'm a little skeptical about that...

What exactly is there to be skeptical about? (And what are you doing that it takes you a long time to "open up" the paper apps?!) We sorted through applications based on the following: school, grades, law review, and chambers-specific calls/recs. That's not that hard or time-consuming. My judge (CA 2/9/DC) only seriously considers applications from about 4-5 schools in the first place, heavily weights Law Review, and pays attention to the types of courses (high grades in doctrinal courses > seminars). That is not at all hard to do. There's very little value in closely reading generic cover letters or heavily-edited writing samples. This process does not take long to "sort", and if you think every app gets a close read in places like New York City or DC . . . not sure what to tell you.

Edit to add: In this context, T-14 is not nearly as much of a cut-off (i.e., in CA2/9/DC clerkship apps) as the true top 4-5 schools, with a few schools beyond HYS being judge-specific interests. Obviously I can't speak for all judges/chambers here, but have talked a bunch with clerks in other chambers, and we more or less line up on an informal 4-5 top school cut off.

I'm skeptical because my career office at a HYSCCN school just let us know there in fact wasn't significant movement yesterday at the district court level beyond a couple of highly competitive districts/judges... so the fact that you're taking your anecdotal knowledge and generalizing it to the entire country makes me skeptical.

And your CSO had the capability of canvassing every district court in the country in less than 24 hours to assess the hiring status of every judge? If true, that’s remarkable. I’m willing to bet they got no-answered or the generic applications are still under consideration response from the ja’s and are spinning that information positively so that they can send out a positively framed email.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Yeah I'm a little skeptical about that...

What exactly is there to be skeptical about? (And what are you doing that it takes you a long time to "open up" the paper apps?!) We sorted through applications based on the following: school, grades, law review, and chambers-specific calls/recs. That's not that hard or time-consuming. My judge (CA 2/9/DC) only seriously considers applications from about 4-5 schools in the first place, heavily weights Law Review, and pays attention to the types of courses (high grades in doctrinal courses > seminars). That is not at all hard to do. There's very little value in closely reading generic cover letters or heavily-edited writing samples. This process does not take long to "sort", and if you think every app gets a close read in places like New York City or DC . . . not sure what to tell you.

Edit to add: In this context, T-14 is not nearly as much of a cut-off (i.e., in CA2/9/DC clerkship apps) as the true top 4-5 schools, with a few schools beyond HYS being judge-specific interests. Obviously I can't speak for all judges/chambers here, but have talked a bunch with clerks in other chambers, and we more or less line up on an informal 4-5 top school cut off.

I'm skeptical because my career office at a HYSCCN school just let us know there in fact wasn't significant movement yesterday at the district court level beyond a couple of highly competitive districts/judges... so the fact that you're taking your anecdotal knowledge and generalizing it to the entire country makes me skeptical.

As indicated by multiple caveats in multiple posts, I wasn't "generalizing to the entire country." I was giving an insider's perspective (at the *appellate* level, in *some* parts of the country) to the extent others were interested in / asking about it. Learn to read more carefully. Good luck with the process.

[Anonymous User]

What exactly is there to be skeptical about? (And what are you doing that it takes you a long time to "open up" the paper apps?!) We sorted through applications based on the following: school, grades, law review, and chambers-specific calls/recs. That's not that hard or time-consuming. My judge (CA 2/9/DC) only seriously considers applications from about 4-5 schools in the first place, heavily weights Law Review, and pays attention to the types of courses (high grades in doctrinal courses > seminars). That is not at all hard to do. There's very little value in closely reading generic cover letters or heavily-edited writing samples. This process does not take long to "sort", and if you think every app gets a close read in places like New York City or DC . . . not sure what to tell you.

Edit to add: In this context, T-14 is not nearly as much of a cut-off (i.e., in CA2/9/DC clerkship apps) as the true top 4-5 schools, with a few schools beyond HYS being judge-specific interests. Obviously I can't speak for all judges/chambers here, but have talked a bunch with clerks in other chambers, and we more or less line up on an informal 4-5 top school cut off.

Non-2/9/DC COA again. Just as another data point, we also have a list of maybe 4-5 schools (mostly judge-specific interests, not necessarily the USNWR top 5) we're looking at first and have already made most of our calls. It makes the initial culling go pretty quickly, although we may have to go back to the pool again later. (We also really don't get that many paper apps, but busier places might get more.)

[Anonymous User]

When paper apps come in as big envelopes, do you at least open them? Or do you throw away, unopened, all applications that don't come from Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, and what, NYU or Columbia? Plus the judge's undergrad?[/quote]

For alumni whose apps trickled in over months, we read and assessed before discarding but those were the main targets of the judge’s search so our read was a little deeper for unique work experience, prior clerkships etc.

For the slot where he/she would consider a 2L, if it was a duplicate application it was tossed and probably would cost a candidate an interview because of failure to follow directions (same with an alum). If not, it’d be opened and the resume got a 30 sec read before discarding.

[judgefudge]

Asking for a friend who doesn't want to post on here because she's terrified her firm will somehow know it's her and fire her (paranoid? maybe/probably, but her firm has been pretty unreasonable in the past, so i can't blame her).

Has anyone heard from magistrate judges for 2020? I know she applied to some where she lives in CA, but she also applied to magistrates in smaller jurisdictions. She hasn't heard a peep from anyone in any jurisdiction.

[Anonymous User]

Asking for a friend who doesn't want to post on here because she's terrified her firm will somehow know it's her and fire her (paranoid? maybe/probably, but her firm has been pretty unreasonable in the past, so i can't blame her).

Has anyone heard from magistrate judges for 2020? I know she applied to some where she lives in CA, but she also applied to magistrates in smaller jurisdictions. She hasn't heard a peep from anyone in any jurisdiction.

SDNY

[Anonymous User]

Asking for a friend who doesn't want to post on here because she's terrified her firm will somehow know it's her and fire her (paranoid? maybe/probably, but her firm has been pretty unreasonable in the past, so i can't blame her).

Has anyone heard from magistrate judges for 2020? I know she applied to some where she lives in CA, but she also applied to magistrates in smaller jurisdictions. She hasn't heard a peep from anyone in any jurisdiction.

Have a friend that heard from MJ in New Mexico yesterday.

[Anonymous User]

Some hope for folks still waiting - know of people who got calls today from CA9 and from non-2/9/DC COAs.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Just adding to this (I'm a CA9 anon from the first page): when your judge sets pretty clear hiring criteria, it's easy to triage through a large number of applications. We're looking for particular GPA's/class ranks at T14's and near-T14's, a good H:P ratio and awards in key classes at YHS, and essentially people who are #1 or #2 in their class at other schools. It doesn't take 4 clerks that long to cull the herd down to those applications and get those in front of the judge so the judge can decide who to call.

[Noidentifyinginfo]

Any anecdotal movement on the 7th/8th Circuits?

[Peanut Butter]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Yeah I'm a little skeptical about that...

What exactly is there to be skeptical about? (And what are you doing that it takes you a long time to "open up" the paper apps?!) We sorted through applications based on the following: school, grades, law review, and chambers-specific calls/recs. That's not that hard or time-consuming. My judge (CA 2/9/DC) only seriously considers applications from about 4-5 schools in the first place, heavily weights Law Review, and pays attention to the types of courses (high grades in doctrinal courses > seminars). That is not at all hard to do. There's very little value in closely reading generic cover letters or heavily-edited writing samples. This process does not take long to "sort", and if you think every app gets a close read in places like New York City or DC . . . not sure what to tell you.

Edit to add: In this context, T-14 is not nearly as much of a cut-off (i.e., in CA2/9/DC clerkship apps) as the true top 4-5 schools, with a few schools beyond HYS being judge-specific interests. Obviously I can't speak for all judges/chambers here, but have talked a bunch with clerks in other chambers, and we more or less line up on an informal 4-5 top school cut off.

Just adding to this edit from a separate observer’s perspective:

I think there’s a tendency to think well I’m a T-14 student with excellent/good grades and law review and/or moot court I’ll have some bites. I think CSOs peddle that line of thinking and it’s not in touch with the reality of how this process works. Law school applicants are largely identical. With so little to differentiate, judges inject their preferences whether it’s school or calls from trusted/known sources to create separation and cut down on numbers. Those selectivity factors are randomized and within the judge’s prerogative to hire whomever they want. There are highly selective COA and district court judges who ask to review applications from particular T-2 schools because they’ve enjoyed working with clerks from those schools in the past and find that those applicants come with less entitlement baggage and “bells and whistles” from T-14 schools that make hard sells for their students.
And, of course, it cuts the other way where a judge wouldn’t even consider that applicant just based on the fact that they attend a school in that tier.

It’s a very different process than law firm hiring where just numbers will get you an interview. And I think T-14 schools undersell that to their applicants and most are wondering why there is limited to no interest.

[Anonymous User]

Are a significant amount of judges waiting until today to move? I got fewer calls than expected and want to know if I should hold out hope.

First-hand and anecdotal evidence suggests that most calls went out yesterday with interviews scheduled starting at the end of the week and into the next. There could be a straggler or two, but significant movement already happened.

WOW! So y'all sorted through hundreds of applications (well, looked at the T14 kids), read the recs of the top students, and made calls? Did having a paper app or an OSCAR app (or both) make a difference? Seems like you wouldn't be able to even open up all the paper apps in a single day.

Just adding to this (I'm a CA9 anon from the first page): when your judge sets pretty clear hiring criteria, it's easy to triage through a large number of applications. We're looking for particular GPA's/class ranks at T14's and near-T14's, a good H:P ratio and awards in key classes at YHS, and essentially people who are #1 or #2 in their class at other schools. It doesn't take 4 clerks that long to cull the herd down to those applications and get those in front of the judge so the judge can decide who to call.

Thanks! For schools that are not HYS (but still T-14) and don't give out class rank or GPA, do you calculate a GPA or just spot check (I know it varies by chambers probably).

Edit: Comment directly above this hits uncomfortably close to home.

[Anonymous User]

Asking for a friend who doesn't want to post on here because she's terrified her firm will somehow know it's her and fire her (paranoid? maybe/probably, but her firm has been pretty unreasonable in the past, so i can't blame her).

Has anyone heard from magistrate judges for 2020? I know she applied to some where she lives in CA, but she also applied to magistrates in smaller jurisdictions. She hasn't heard a peep from anyone in any jurisdiction.

Have a friend that heard from MJ in New Mexico yesterday.

Was it Fouratt?