Second Circuit Clerk Taking Qs Forum

[Anonymous User]

Always found these helpful, and now I can do one. Shoot.

[deepseapartners]

I'm transactional-bound, but one of my close friends is litigation-bound and is dead set on clerking. He's sitting at top 5-10% at a lower T14, but believes, based on an unfavorably curved class we took together this past semester, that his chances are gone. So, my question for you is twofold -
1. Assuming he scores badly, and that single grade drops him below top 10%, does he still have a shot at SDNY/2nd Circuit?
2. Is there a way to mitigate one bad grade on a transcript using the other parts of the application? Or is that just something you have to live with, as a weird point in your transcript, beyond any negative GPA effects it may have?

[Anonymous User]

It varies quite a bit by judge. For my judges (I did SDNY before this), it wouldn't matter if you are just within or outside of the top 10%. Either way, you are not one of the outstanding grades people (I was not either), so you need either a connection (e.g., a professor, partner who knows the judge and will vouch for you) or something else that makes you stand out, like an interesting job or experience on your resume.

Some judges of course place a ton of weight on grades and use them as a strict cutoff. But my general impression is that if you're top 10% or so, you're considered competent for the job, and then you need something else to get you in the door. At the appellate level, district court experience is a big plus (far more than a few more A's on your transcript) for a number of judges.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm transactional-bound, but one of my close friends is litigation-bound and is dead set on clerking. He's sitting at top 5-10% at a lower T14, but believes, based on an unfavorably curved class we took together this past semester, that his chances are gone. So, my question for you is twofold -
1. Assuming he scores badly, and that single grade drops him below top 10%, does he still have a shot at SDNY/2nd Circuit?
2. Is there a way to mitigate one bad grade on a transcript using the other parts of the application? Or is that just something you have to live with, as a weird point in your transcript, beyond any negative GPA effects it may have?

Not a 2d Cir/SDNY clerk, but is there a reason why your friend is limiting their applications to those two jurisdictions?

[deepseapartners]

Not a 2d Cir/SDNY clerk, but is there a reason why your friend is limiting their applications to those two jurisdictions?

I doubt he's totally limiting himself to just those two jurisdictions, I asked that specifically bc I know he has a preference to stay close to NYC, even while clerking.

And thanks OP!

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not a 2d Cir/SDNY clerk, but is there a reason why your friend is limiting their applications to those two jurisdictions?

I doubt he's totally limiting himself to just those two jurisdictions, I asked that specifically bc I know he has a preference to stay close to NYC, even while clerking.

And thanks OP!

Just wondering, because if he's willing to apply broadly, I don't think even one bad grade is going to ruin his chances. Just below 10% is not any kind of death sentence for clerking generally, although it might make it a good deal harder for the traditionally super competitive jurisdictions. Just not sure whether "dead set on clerking" means clerking anywhere, or just in the more desirable locations. (But of course a 2d Cir/SDNY clerk will have great info on NY clerkships, so it makes sense to ask that and I didn't mean to sound snotty about it).

[amsm222]

I know this has been discussed in other clerkship threads, but another data point never hurts.

I will be going to the CoA without prior district court experience. Do you have any recommendations for how to prepare before starting? And what has been the most difficult challenge for the first month or so of your appellate clerkship?

[Anonymous User]

thanks for doing this. I'll be clerking on 2d cir later.

1) is there a parking garage under the building? do you know any clerks who successfully drive to work?

2) is there a cafeteria in 40 foley and how does it compare to the one at 500 pearl/sdny? I've only been in the marshall courthouse twice.

3) when does the post-clerk job hunt begin in the public sector? private sector? do you feel like the perceived ideological leanings of the judge have a significant impact on government hiring depending on the administration?

4) any thoughts on the panel system and how distribution of opinions works? When do you actually figure out whether your bench memo/work product will become a majority or dissenting opinion?

[Anonymous User]

I know this has been discussed in other clerkship threads, but another data point never hurts.

I will be going to the CoA without prior district court experience. Do you have any recommendations for how to prepare before starting? And what has been the most difficult challenge for the first month or so of your appellate clerkship?

I would read some recent decisions by your judge to get a feel for his or her writing style. It will save you a lot of time to learn how to write like your judge from the get go, instead of going through what may be substantial revisions. And, if you haven't done it before, go watch some oral arguments. If your experience is like mine, most of your time will be spent writing bench memos (summaries of arguments with a recommendation) and opinions and watching oral arguments.

I'd say the biggest challenge for me has been understanding the unique position of the courts of appeals, as compared to the district courts. It would be useful to read the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and to get a good grasp on the different standards of review on appeal. Procedural issues have been the most difficult to master for the simple reason that they're pretty much all new to me.

[Anonymous User]

thanks for doing this. I'll be clerking on 2d cir later.

1) is there a parking garage under the building? do you know any clerks who successfully drive to work?

2) is there a cafeteria in 40 foley and how does it compare to the one at 500 pearl/sdny? I've only been in the marshall courthouse twice.

3) when does the post-clerk job hunt begin in the public sector? private sector? do you feel like the perceived ideological leanings of the judge have a significant impact on government hiring depending on the administration?

4) any thoughts on the panel system and how distribution of opinions works? When do you actually figure out whether your bench memo/work product will become a majority or dissenting opinion?

Congrats!

1. There is, in 500 Pearl. I often bike and park down there. I believe you can get a pass for cars, but I don't know anyone who has one, besides judges.

2. There are cafeterias in both and I wouldn't recommend either, other than for a prepackaged snack or drink.

3. I have not looked at government jobs so I can't really say. I'm going into the private sector, and my impression is that it's just starting to gear up. Public sector seems to have been going on for several months already.

4. It's very interesting. You'll find that a lot of your work involves diplomacy with other chambers. Generally, the judges will hold conference after oral arguments and give their preliminary decisions and you'll know then who will be writing the opinion or, more often, summary order. But if the judges leave conference without agreement, you may have an exchange of memos or even competing draft opinions before you find out whether you're in the majority or not.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks so much for taking questions! I'm a 1L interested in interning for a federal judge this summer. My grades just came back- ended up with a 3.90 and a highest-grade award at a strong regional T2 in a major market. Class rank is pending, but probably within the top 5%.

1. Will my school's ranking severely limit my chances at getting an internship with a COA or district judge?
2. Are there any good questions to ask a judge/clerk at the end of an interview, in your experience?
3. Do you have any general tips for someone in my position?

Thanks again

[Anonymous User]

Thanks so much for taking questions! I'm a 1L interested in interning for a federal judge this summer. My grades just came back- ended up with a 3.90 and a highest-grade award at a strong regional T2 in a major market. Class rank is pending, but probably within the top 5%.

1. Will my school's ranking severely limit my chances at getting an internship with a COA or district judge?
2. Are there any good questions to ask a judge/clerk at the end of an interview, in your experience?
3. Do you have any general tips for someone in my position?

Thanks again

I didn't intern but I was involved in interviewing interns at the district level. I would think your class ranking helps, if anything; it certainly wouldn't have been a black flag on your app for us. If you're deadset on interning for a judge but are in a major, more competitive market, I would send apps elsewhere too, especially, for instance, if you have ties to a smaller, more regional place.

Not really. The best question is always just what will I be doing, and follow-up questions if you can think of them. It's easy for the judge/clerks to answer so gives everyone something to talk about, and it shows interest. Otherwise, interviews are generally a chance to get to know the judge to see if the two of you will get along well enough to work together.

The only general tip I have, as noted above, is to apply broadly.

[Anonymous User]

I'd say the biggest challenge for me has been understanding the unique position of the courts of appeals, as compared to the district courts. It would be useful to read the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and to get a good grasp on the different standards of review on appeal. Procedural issues have been the most difficult to master for the simple reason that they're pretty much all new to me.

Current D. Ct. clerk who will be clerking on 2d Cir. next year, so thanks for this suggestion, it's very helpful. Any other suggestions for making the transition from district to circuit courts? Also, does 40 Foley allow you to ship packages directly to the Courthouse? Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

3L at a T14 here with future D.Ct./2d. Cir. spots

Thanks for taking questions. Are there gyms at 40 Foley and/or 500 Pearl? What are they like? Also, you mentioned you bike to work sometimes and park downstairs. Do you bike in your work clothing or shower at the Courthouse before work? What's dress like in chambers generally?

These feel like basic quesitons, but curious and trying to visualize what life will be like. Thank you

[Anonymous User]

I'd say the biggest challenge for me has been understanding the unique position of the courts of appeals, as compared to the district courts. It would be useful to read the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and to get a good grasp on the different standards of review on appeal. Procedural issues have been the most difficult to master for the simple reason that they're pretty much all new to me.

Current D. Ct. clerk who will be clerking on 2d Cir. next year, so thanks for this suggestion, it's very helpful. Any other suggestions for making the transition from district to circuit courts? Also, does 40 Foley allow you to ship packages directly to the Courthouse? Thanks!

Yes I've had stuff delivered to chambers.

[Anonymous User]

3L at a T14 here with future D.Ct./2d. Cir. spots

Thanks for taking questions. Are there gyms at 40 Foley and/or 500 Pearl? What are they like? Also, you mentioned you bike to work sometimes and park downstairs. Do you bike in your work clothing or shower at the Courthouse before work? What's dress like in chambers generally?

These feel like basic quesitons, but curious and trying to visualize what life will be like. Thank you

There is a gym in one of the buildings but I've not been to it. I hear it's small but has some treadmills and maybe some weights. I think it's about $10 a month for a membership. I generally bike in my work clothing but it's a short ride. I leave my jackets at the court usually. Dress depends on your judge, but generally it's business casual with a tie; jacket is not required unless you're going into court.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 3L will be clerking on 2d in 2017. I haven't taken corporate law or anything related. How screwed am I?

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 3L will be clerking on 2d in 2017. I haven't taken corporate law or anything related. How screwed am I?

Not the anon starting this thread but am currently clerking at 2d circuit. You aren't screwed. I took nothing related to corporate law, securities, business organizations, etc. Would it have been helpful? Sure. But each case has its own intricacies and I doubt I could have learned it all in law school. I wouldn't say I'm in any way behind or struggling on these types of cases (of which there are many). Don't worry about it.