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My school does not let judicial interns obtain pro bono hours, which is why I have shied away from working for a judge. Is it possible for me to obtain a judicial clerkship after graduation if I do not have any experience working for a judge? Should I get a judicial internship to maximize my chances of getting a clerkship even though it's both unpaid and ineligible for pro bono hours?

Manali wrote:My school does not let judicial interns obtain pro bono hours, which is why I have shied away from working for a judge. Is it possible for me to obtain a judicial clerkship after graduation if I do not have any experience working for a judge? Should I get a judicial internship to maximize my chances of getting a clerkship even though it's both unpaid and ineligible for pro bono hours?

Working as a judicial intern has no bearing on whether you can get a clerkship. In fact, most judges have rules against hiring their judicial interns full-time.

UChicago2017 wrote:

Manali wrote:My school does not let judicial interns obtain pro bono hours, which is why I have shied away from working for a judge. Is it possible for me to obtain a judicial clerkship after graduation if I do not have any experience working for a judge? Should I get a judicial internship to maximize my chances of getting a clerkship even though it's both unpaid and ineligible for pro bono hours?

Working as a judicial intern has no bearing on whether you can get a clerkship. In fact, most judges have rules against hiring their judicial interns full-time.

Wow, does this rule apply to DoJ EOIR (Immigration Judges)? That would would really disincentivize me from being a judicial intern.

Manali wrote:

UChicago2017 wrote:

Manali wrote:My school does not let judicial interns obtain pro bono hours, which is why I have shied away from working for a judge. Is it possible for me to obtain a judicial clerkship after graduation if I do not have any experience working for a judge? Should I get a judicial internship to maximize my chances of getting a clerkship even though it's both unpaid and ineligible for pro bono hours?

Working as a judicial intern has no bearing on whether you can get a clerkship. In fact, most judges have rules against hiring their judicial interns full-time.

Wow, does this rule apply to DoJ EOIR (Immigration Judges)? That would would really disincentivize me from being a judicial intern.

It would be worth asking any judges with whom you interview. Also, if they're in the area of your school, someone at CDO should know about or be willing to inquire about whether the judge has such a policy.

Also, it's not always the case. I know of one COA judge who hires an intern to clerk just about every year. He may be the exception, but it definitely is not a hard and fast rule. Like with most things related to clerkship hiring, it's very, very idiosyncratic.

dear lord seek help

BlackAndOrange84 wrote:

Manali wrote:

UChicago2017 wrote:

Manali wrote:My school does not let judicial interns obtain pro bono hours, which is why I have shied away from working for a judge. Is it possible for me to obtain a judicial clerkship after graduation if I do not have any experience working for a judge? Should I get a judicial internship to maximize my chances of getting a clerkship even though it's both unpaid and ineligible for pro bono hours?

Working as a judicial intern has no bearing on whether you can get a clerkship. In fact, most judges have rules against hiring their judicial interns full-time.

Wow, does this rule apply to DoJ EOIR (Immigration Judges)? That would would really disincentivize me from being a judicial intern.

It would be worth asking any judges with whom you interview. Also, if they're in the area of your school, someone at CDO should know about or be willing to inquire about whether the judge has such a policy.

Also, it's not always the case. I know of one COA judge who hires an intern to clerk just about every year. He may be the exception, but it definitely is not a hard and fast rule. Like with most things related to clerkship hiring, it's very, very idiosyncratic.

I was referring to Art. III judges. Judges that hire from their intern pool is definitely the exception, not the rule. I'm unfamiliar with EOIR judge policies.

Manali wrote:

UChicago2017 wrote:

Manali wrote:My school does not let judicial interns obtain pro bono hours, which is why I have shied away from working for a judge. Is it possible for me to obtain a judicial clerkship after graduation if I do not have any experience working for a judge? Should I get a judicial internship to maximize my chances of getting a clerkship even though it's both unpaid and ineligible for pro bono hours?

Working as a judicial intern has no bearing on whether you can get a clerkship. In fact, most judges have rules against hiring their judicial interns full-time.

Wow, does this rule apply to DoJ EOIR (Immigration Judges)? That would would really disincentivize me from being a judicial intern.

I don't know whether EOIR has a policy of not placing former interns with their former judges, but they definitely hire people who have interned for EOIR, and often seem to prefer them. But EOIR hires clerks centrally through the honors program, as opposed to individual judges hiring as in state/federal courts.

I don't think most judges have a policy of not hiring their former interns, though some definitely do. That's not really worth not doing an internship over, though.

No one cares about your stupid judicial internship one way or the other. Just get tippy top grades (or go to YLS) and you have a shot at clerkships.

Will interning for a judge make the learning curve less steep as a postgrad judicial law clerk?

Manali wrote:Will interning for a judge make the learning curve less steep as a postgrad judicial law clerk?

I don't think it matters enough to strain yourself to intern for a judge as a law student. I externed for a semester, loved it, one of the better decisions I made in law school, but it bore such little resemblance to the life of a full time clerk. I think it's worth externing/interning for a judge if you are interested in litigation and in clerking for the experience and to get out of doing more class, but I wouldn't conceive of it as some sort of prerequisite or practical necessity or even mild advantage.

jbagelboy wrote:

Manali wrote:Will interning for a judge make the learning curve less steep as a postgrad judicial law clerk?

I don't think it matters enough to strain yourself to intern for a judge as a law student. I externed for a semester, loved it, one of the better decisions I made in law school, but it bore such little resemblance to the life of a full time clerk. I think it's worth externing/interning for a judge if you are interested in litigation and in clerking for the experience and to get out of doing more class, but I wouldn't conceive of it as some sort of prerequisite or practical necessity or even mild advantage.

This. I loved my externship, but would have rather done a 1L SA in a hot second. The point of 1L summer employment is to give you semi-interesting/semi-relevant experiences to talk about during interviews.

Also, do IJs even get funding for clerks? Srs q.

sundance95 wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Manali wrote:Will interning for a judge make the learning curve less steep as a postgrad judicial law clerk?

I don't think it matters enough to strain yourself to intern for a judge as a law student. I externed for a semester, loved it, one of the better decisions I made in law school, but it bore such little resemblance to the life of a full time clerk. I think it's worth externing/interning for a judge if you are interested in litigation and in clerking for the experience and to get out of doing more class, but I wouldn't conceive of it as some sort of prerequisite or practical necessity or even mild advantage.

This. I loved my externship, but would have rather done a 1L SA in a hot second. The point of 1L summer employment is to give you semi-interesting/semi-relevant experiences to talk about during interviews.

Also, do IJs even get funding for clerks? Srs q.

IJs get paid clerks through the DoJ EOIR Honors Program. The internships, however, are unpaid.

jbagelboy wrote:

Manali wrote:Will interning for a judge make the learning curve less steep as a postgrad judicial law clerk?

I don't think it matters enough to strain yourself to intern for a judge as a law student. I externed for a semester, loved it, one of the better decisions I made in law school, but it bore such little resemblance to the life of a full time clerk. I think it's worth externing/interning for a judge if you are interested in litigation and in clerking for the experience and to get out of doing more class, but I wouldn't conceive of it as some sort of prerequisite or practical necessity or even mild advantage.

YMMV here. I am a current district court clerk who also externed for my judge during law school. I am doing the exact same thing now as I did during my externship. The only real difference is the volume of work that I get through.

Also, for what it's worth, my judge hires his former externs quite often. Based on my observations thus far, I am confident that if you applied for a clerkship with my judge and a former intern that my judge liked (that qualifier is important) also applied, your chance of getting the position would be slim. Not impossible I suppose, but very slim.

Anonymous User wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Manali wrote:Will interning for a judge make the learning curve less steep as a postgrad judicial law clerk?

I don't think it matters enough to strain yourself to intern for a judge as a law student. I externed for a semester, loved it, one of the better decisions I made in law school, but it bore such little resemblance to the life of a full time clerk. I think it's worth externing/interning for a judge if you are interested in litigation and in clerking for the experience and to get out of doing more class, but I wouldn't conceive of it as some sort of prerequisite or practical necessity or even mild advantage.

YMMV here. I am a current district court clerk who also externed for my judge during law school. I am doing the exact same thing now as I did during my externship. The only real difference is the volume of work that I get through.

Also, for what it's worth, my judge hires his former externs quite often. Based on my observations thus far, I am confident that if you applied for a clerkship with my judge and a former intern that my judge liked (that qualifier is important) also applied, your chance of getting the position would be slim. Not impossible I suppose, but very slim.

That has to be very rare though. The vast majority of judges and clerks I've met confirm that judges will not as a general matter hire their former externs/interns. I suppose there are always exceptions that prove the rule--congrats on snagging that kind of externship!

First, no, you don't need a judicial internship. Clerks get hired without internship experience all the time. Relax.

I will add that I agree with the prevailing opinion here that most AIII judges don't hire former interns (source: former judicial intern). However, something to consider is that some of those judges are willing to make calls to other judges on your behalf, particularly in the same circuit or district. This probably won't make up for a gap in your resume, but it can get your application off the clerk's desk and on the judge's. Otherwise, the main benefit of interning is having something interesting to discuss with clerks or judges during interviews, but any decent 1L or 2L position should give you that.

lowdmouse wrote:First, no, you don't need a judicial internship. Clerks get hired without internship experience all the time. Relax.

I will add that I agree with the prevailing opinion here that most AIII judges don't hire former interns (source: former judicial intern). However, something to consider is that some of those judges are willing to make calls to other judges on your behalf, particularly in the same circuit or district. This probably won't make up for a gap in your resume, but it can get your application off the clerk's desk and on the judge's. Otherwise, the main benefit of interning is having something interesting to discuss with clerks or judges during interviews, but any decent 1L or 2L position should give you that.

Do judges look favorably upon legal aid internships? Most of my experience is legal aid to indigent clients. Plan to do the public defender clinic my 3L year.

Manali wrote:

lowdmouse wrote:First, no, you don't need a judicial internship. Clerks get hired without internship experience all the time. Relax.

I will add that I agree with the prevailing opinion here that most AIII judges don't hire former interns (source: former judicial intern). However, something to consider is that some of those judges are willing to make calls to other judges on your behalf, particularly in the same circuit or district. This probably won't make up for a gap in your resume, but it can get your application off the clerk's desk and on the judge's. Otherwise, the main benefit of interning is having something interesting to discuss with clerks or judges during interviews, but any decent 1L or 2L position should give you that.

Do judges look favorably upon legal aid internships? Most of my experience is legal aid to indigent clients. Plan to do the public defender clinic my 3L year.

depends waht judge

its all idiosyncratic

Obviously #anecdotes here, but the feeder judge I'm interning with this summer has a clerk who was a former intern, and the district judge that a friend of mine will be interning with has two former intern clerks.

I'm not sure it's quite as rare as it's frequently made out to be on here - and I would imagine especially so for district judges in non-popular districts.