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Not sure I'm trying to clerk no matter what yet, but I figured I would send out some apps to places I would definitely like to clerk just to see how it goes

Median at upper T14. Good WE & summer experiences. My best grade has been an A-, and several B+ grades

I am definitely not a gunner, and went to very few office hours. Even when I went to office hours I would typically ask my question and be out in a couple minutes, none of the ass kissing and shit that some people do.

That said, I have no idea how I will get letters of recommendation. I have SA'd, but I have since accepted at another firm, so even if employer recs are good, I doubt anyone would give me a great one. And as I said, I didn't destroy any of my classes.

Anyone ever gotten recommendations in a situation like this? I've seen people here claim to get clerkships from median at lesser schools than mine... wtf do the letters say? "Mr. Smith was a slightly above average and he would probably be a passable clerk."?

I just genuinely have no clue who to ask for recommendations. Is it possible to get a clerkship without great recs?

You should push the process back a bit for more time. Use that time to build a relationship with a prof. Try and be an RA or do something else similar.

Anonymous User wrote:
I just genuinely have no clue who to ask for recommendations. Is it possible to get a clerkship without great recs?

For some judges, absolutely. For others, absolutely not. But given your median grades, I'm guessing your lack of recs is going to hurt you.

Anecdote: I was barely above median from a T30-40 but got a d. ct. clerkship. But I had/have very, very strong references.

minnbills wrote:You should push the process back a bit for more time. Use that time to build a relationship with a prof. Try and be an RA or do something else similar.

I'm writing a note and so will possibly do research with the guy I got my only A- with. If I get a rec from him, I figure I still need at least one, if not two more, right?

My 2L classes are pretty much with adjunct sort of people. Even if I get a great grade, are these appropriate for letters of rec given that they're not really faculty?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:
I just genuinely have no clue who to ask for recommendations. Is it possible to get a clerkship without great recs?

Anecdote: I was barely above median from a T30-40 but got a d. ct. clerkship. But I had/have very, very strong references.

TYFT

Who did you end up getting your academic references from? Did you have an outlier super high grade? Or did you get a great rec from a class in which you were median?

As far as being an adjunct, how that's viewed will likely vary by judge. What's most important is getting someone who can speak well of you and make it personal (e.g. not just "Ms. Smith will be a good clerk because he came to class and got an A on my exam.") Seminar profs and LRW profs can make the best recs even though they may not be full faculty because they know you more personally, know how you work, and know how you write.

If doing three (which I think you should -- and for some judges you must), the third shouldn't be faculty.

It's going to be more important you get professors who can write amazing things about you than professors who gave you good grades. I had a three-class GPA of above a 4.0 with one professor, but I didn't ask him to write a letter because all he'd say is, "He did great on tests and was excellent with snarky remarks in class." Instead, two of my three recommenders are professors I did less well with, but I worked with extensively and can write great things about me. (The third is the superstar recommender at my T14; if you can get a letter from him, you do.)

Anonymous User wrote:It's going to be more important you get professors who can write amazing things about you than professors who gave you good grades. I had a three-class GPA of above a 4.0 with one professor, but I didn't ask him to write a letter because all he'd say is, "He did great on tests and was excellent with snarky remarks in class." Instead, two of my three recommenders are professors I did less well with, but I worked with extensively and can write great things about me. (The third is the superstar recommender at my T14; if you can get a letter from him, you do.)

what are typical ways that people make these relationships? just kissing ass in office hours?

I am writing a comment with a prof, so presumably that could be one... but how else do you build an outside of the classroom professional connection with a prof?

Also, would a clinical prof be an acceptable recommender? Would this be more like an employer, or an academic rec?


And thanks everyone for all of the advice so far

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:It's going to be more important you get professors who can write amazing things about you than professors who gave you good grades. I had a three-class GPA of above a 4.0 with one professor, but I didn't ask him to write a letter because all he'd say is, "He did great on tests and was excellent with snarky remarks in class." Instead, two of my three recommenders are professors I did less well with, but I worked with extensively and can write great things about me. (The third is the superstar recommender at my T14; if you can get a letter from him, you do.)

what are typical ways that people make these relationships? just kissing ass in office hours?

I am writing a comment with a prof, so presumably that could be one... but how else do you build an outside of the classroom professional connection with a prof?

Also, would a clinical prof be an acceptable recommender? Would this be more like an employer, or an academic rec?


And thanks everyone for all of the advice so far

I'm the quoted anon.

The first professor, and the one I believe wrote me the best letter, I RAed for my 1L summer. I did really good work for her (I'm saying this because she told me that, not as a brag), and it's paid off in a good letter. The second professor I had for four classes and an independent research. Since I had him in two small classes, I got to know him quite well, and he really liked my paper. The third professor—kind of the star recommender at my school—I had for three classes, including a small seminar-like FedCourts.

Assuming you do good work with the comment, that professor is a great choice. Clinical professors are fine, if you've built up some relationship or have done bang-up work. I know several classmates who used a legal research professor as a recommender.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:It's going to be more important you get professors who can write amazing things about you than professors who gave you good grades. I had a three-class GPA of above a 4.0 with one professor, but I didn't ask him to write a letter because all he'd say is, "He did great on tests and was excellent with snarky remarks in class." Instead, two of my three recommenders are professors I did less well with, but I worked with extensively and can write great things about me. (The third is the superstar recommender at my T14; if you can get a letter from him, you do.)

what are typical ways that people make these relationships? just kissing ass in office hours?

I am writing a comment with a prof, so presumably that could be one... but how else do you build an outside of the classroom professional connection with a prof?

Also, would a clinical prof be an acceptable recommender? Would this be more like an employer, or an academic rec?


And thanks everyone for all of the advice so far

I'm the quoted anon.

The first professor, and the one I believe wrote me the best letter, I RAed for my 1L summer. I did really good work for her (I'm saying this because she told me that, not as a brag), and it's paid off in a good letter. The second professor I had for four classes and an independent research. Since I had him in two small classes, I got to know him quite well, and he really liked my paper. The third professor—kind of the star recommender at my school—I had for three classes, including a small seminar-like FedCourts.

Assuming you do good work with the comment, that professor is a great choice. Clinical professors are fine, if you've built up some relationship or have done bang-up work. I know several classmates who used a legal research professor as a recommender.

Were you applying as a 2L or 3L?