SDNY Clerk Taking Questions Forum

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SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:41 pm

Always found these helpful. I'm finishing up my last month.

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lacrossebrother

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by lacrossebrother » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:54 pm

What are you doing next?

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lacrossebrother

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by lacrossebrother » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:55 pm

Also what school did you go to and what were you ranked?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Hutz_and_Goodman » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:37 pm

What does your judge look for in applications and how does a non-t14 applicant avoid the garbage can?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:48 pm

Would median from CCN stand any chance for 16-17?

Would an A3 internship/externship up the odds? Furthermore, will judges or clerks ever be recommenders for their externs and/or make calls on their behalf?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by canoe » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:16 pm

Have you noticed your SDNY clerkship giving you a significant boost when it comes to firm hiring? Were you able to reach firms that may not have considered you with the credentials you had previous to your SDNY clerkship?

Also, SDNY is extremely competitive as it's the premier district court of the country so I'm assuming grades aren't used to distinguish candidates much once you get into the t-14 top 5-10% category. At this point, is it mostly about professor recommendations?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:36 pm

@lacrossbrother: I'm doing a 2d Circuit clerkship and going to a firm. HYS grad, roughly top 20-25%?

@Hutz: Judge looks for strong grades and generally sticks to the T14. Not because he's a snob but because there are so many applicants to look through and he needs a way to weed them down, and there are only a few spots each year and he wants to keep channels open to the top schools. If you're non-T14 the best in is a call from someone--a professor or a judge you interned with or whatever. Even if he doesn't know them, he'll most likely ask us to pull your app from the pile and take a look.

@Anon: I think the only way would be if you had an in with someone he knows well and trusts (a professor, AUSA, etc. who will recommend you very highly). An internship is super valuable. At least on SDNY, a fair number of judges will email or call up their colleagues if you did a good job, and if it's a judge he respects, there's not really a better recommendation you could get.

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:40 pm

canoe wrote:Have you noticed your SDNY clerkship giving you a significant boost when it comes to firm hiring? Were you able to reach firms that may not have considered you with the credentials you had previous to your SDNY clerkship?

Also, SDNY is extremely competitive as it's the premier district court of the country so I'm assuming grades aren't used to distinguish candidates much once you get into the t-14 top 5-10% category. At this point, is it mostly about professor recommendations?
Yea I'm sticking around NYC and I think it's a massive boost. My grades were strong but not the best at my school or anything. Having the clerkship makes you stand out. Pretty much instant call for interview and easy to get an offer if you don't screw it up.

Yes, too. Unless you're #1 or #2 in your class, it's not going to make much of a difference if you're closer to the 10% or 5% mark. Recommenders are huge for my judge. There are plenty of extremely gifted applicants with better grades/creds than me who didn't get an interview because they lacked that connection. He generally doesn't want to interview more than 3-4 per spot.

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:56 pm

Are certain SDNY judges considered more "prestigious" than others? For example, is Judge Oetken considered a more desirable judge because he has fed someone to the Supreme Court?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are certain SDNY judges considered more "prestigious" than others? For example, is Judge Oetken considered a more desirable judge because he has fed someone to the Supreme Court?
Certain judges are definitely considered more desirable and therefore might be a bit harder to get. As for SCOTUS placement, probably the most prestigious is Rakoff since he has a thing going with Katzmann, who is I think the biggest feeder judge on the 2d Circuit (besides maybe Leval).

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are certain SDNY judges considered more "prestigious" than others? For example, is Judge Oetken considered a more desirable judge because he has fed someone to the Supreme Court?
Certain judges are definitely considered more desirable and therefore might be a bit harder to get. As for SCOTUS placement, probably the most prestigious is Rakoff since he has a thing going with Katzmann, who is I think the biggest feeder judge on the 2d Circuit (besides maybe Leval).
If you don't mind me asking, who are some of these more "desirable" judges? Besides SCOTUS placement, what makes one judge more desirable than another?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are certain SDNY judges considered more "prestigious" than others? For example, is Judge Oetken considered a more desirable judge because he has fed someone to the Supreme Court?
Certain judges are definitely considered more desirable and therefore might be a bit harder to get. As for SCOTUS placement, probably the most prestigious is Rakoff since he has a thing going with Katzmann, who is I think the biggest feeder judge on the 2d Circuit (besides maybe Leval).
If you don't mind me asking, who are some of these more "desirable" judges? Besides SCOTUS placement, what makes one judge more desirable than another?
It's tough to say. I've heard great things about Abrams, Engelmayer, Oetken, Nathan, and Wood, and I'm sure there are others who are consistently highly rated by their clerks and peers. Basically all of the judges on SDNY are very smart--but some of them also have reputations as being more mentor-like and friendly/outgoing. When you spend a year with the person, it's nice to work for someone who's invested in their clerks and who won't work you into the ground (but I won't name those names)

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by canoe » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:42 am

Once you had the intention of clerking for a competitive court, were you able to scope around and figure out which professors at your school had an "in" with a certain judge on the SDNY? Or would you say you got lucky in that you randomly made connections with professors who just happened to have sway over your SDNY judge?

I've always wondered if almost all people who end up clerking for such highly competitive courts deliberately approached certain professors their 1L or 2L year with the hope of getting an advantage. Obviously this happens often but I'm wondering if I'm underestimating its frequency. To me, competitive clerkship admissions seem to be decided almost entirely on "soft factors" (unless you're #1 or #2 at your t-14 school) so it seems like identifying beforehand certain professors to suck up to is a necessary part of the process if you're willing to minimize the "luck" factor when it comes to clerkship admissions.

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:48 pm

canoe wrote:Once you had the intention of clerking for a competitive court, were you able to scope around and figure out which professors at your school had an "in" with a certain judge on the SDNY? Or would you say you got lucky in that you randomly made connections with professors who just happened to have sway over your SDNY judge?

I've always wondered if almost all people who end up clerking for such highly competitive courts deliberately approached certain professors their 1L or 2L year with the hope of getting an advantage. Obviously this happens often but I'm wondering if I'm underestimating its frequency. To me, competitive clerkship admissions seem to be decided almost entirely on "soft factors" (unless you're #1 or #2 at your t-14 school) so it seems like identifying beforehand certain professors to suck up to is a necessary part of the process if you're willing to minimize the "luck" factor when it comes to clerkship admissions.
I just got lucky. I think most people--myself included--try to make a connection with a professor with a reputation for securing clerkships, but they don't have any particular judges in mind, as opposed to specific courts like SDNY. As long as you get a prof who will send an email or ideally call a few judges that you identify, that's a huge step. Of course, if you decide who you want to clerk for and identify a professor with a connection to them, that's great. But I can't imagine many people are thinking that specifically or that far ahead. Most are just happy to get a clerkship on a good court, or at all.

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:19 pm

Do you have any sense how your clerkship experience compares to those in a flyover district? To EDNY? To DDC?

Thanks for answering questions!

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:46 am

The only comparison I really have is to EDNY and I don't think there are major differences. We have a more diverse/commercial docket generally and more high profile cases. DDC is presumably much different because of the administrative caseload.

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:12 pm

I'm a 2012 grad at the regional office of a biglaw firm. I did a 9th circuit clerkship right out of law school in 2012-13. I was summa from a second tier school. I'd love to do a competitive district court, but I continuously strike out when I apply. Any advice other than have the judge I clerked for call (which I haven't been doing--I'll start doing that)?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:56 pm

I think if you can get your 9th circuit judge to call that'd be pretty big. I know my judge would take a look at you. The only other advice would be to ask your judge if he or she personally knows anyone on SDNY. A lot of times judges will have connections to a few judges on the other court (appellate/district) because they've had some clerk overlaps. Mine does with a few circuit judges, which is how I got my 2d cir clerkship.

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by NYCBriefs » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:51 am

I'm clerking on 9th Cir. now. SDNY next year. The 9th cir. is grueling. I work 7 days a week/14 hr days. . . .and no, not for A. Kozinski. Should I expect this nightmare to continue next year in SDNY?

Also, I know some double clerks who lock the offers down early. Should I start applying now? end of my clerking seems so far away

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:01 am

(1) Why did you decide to clerk twice?

(2) Are you planning on going back to a firm? If so, how did you come to terms with the large amount income you'll be giving up from clerking twice?

(3) Is there anything you wish you'd done before clerking? Any specific courses/books/websites/etc.

(4) (and you may not want to say this on an online forum but . . .) are there any specific judges with sweatshop reputations?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:49 am

I'm assuming you are no longer an SDNY clerk and you are now on the 2d circuit, but hopefully you're still taking questions?

I'm clerking for the 2d circuit (Manhattan) in a couple years, and I'm trying to secure/back on the hunt for an SDNY clerkship for the intervening year between graduation and the coa. Would you look at an applicant's profile differently if you saw a federal appellate clerking in your circuit for the following year? What's the best way to stress that fact without being blunt? And any advise for networking with that information in hand? By this point nearly all of sdny/edny have hired so it will have to be a more last minute type hire.

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:54 pm

NYCBriefs wrote:I'm clerking on 9th Cir. now. SDNY next year. The 9th cir. is grueling. I work 7 days a week/14 hr days. . . .and no, not for A. Kozinski. Should I expect this nightmare to continue next year in SDNY?
Fellow 9th Cir. clerk here; this is extremely atypical, and I don't really even understand how it's possible. What could you possibly be working on for that many hours?

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by rpupkin » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
NYCBriefs wrote:I'm clerking on 9th Cir. now. SDNY next year. The 9th cir. is grueling. I work 7 days a week/14 hr days. . . .and no, not for A. Kozinski. Should I expect this nightmare to continue next year in SDNY?
Fellow 9th Cir. clerk here; this is extremely atypical, and I don't really even understand how it's possible. What could you possibly be working on for that many hours?
Oh give me a break. Some of the opinions that come out of the Ninth Circuit—and other circuits, for that matter—are poorly drafted. That's mostly a result of the judge and his or her clerks not taking the time to research and write clear, well-reasoned opinions. I can understand and respect a judge's choice to maintain a pleasant lifestyle for clerks and staff, but don't pretend like you're doing everything you can do to crank out high-quality opinions. ("I just drafted another perfect opinion...time to go home at 5 p.m. again!")

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Emma. » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:15 pm

NYCBriefs wrote:I'm clerking on 9th Cir. now. SDNY next year. The 9th cir. is grueling. I work 7 days a week/14 hr days. . . .and no, not for A. Kozinski. Should I expect this nightmare to continue next year in SDNY?

Also, I know some double clerks who lock the offers down early. Should I start applying now? end of my clerking seems so far away
MSB?

I worked pretty much 9-5 for my CA9 judge.

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Re: SDNY Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:50 pm

Not COA, but in my district court, I worked 8:30-5, stayed late about 3 times, and worked on the weekend about 5 times the whole year. In the next chambers over, the clerks worked 8-7 every weekday and worked every weekend. Yet their chambers was way behind ours in terms of resolving stuff, based on a lot of choices that particular judge made about how to manage their docket. So experiences even in the same courthouse can be incredibly different for reasons not in the clerk's control.

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