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TItle says it. I've heard that generally a clerkship for a state supreme court is as positive on your resume as a district court. My question is: Is having a CA SC clerkship, if I am trying to work in LA post-clerkship, as beneficial as a CD CA clerkship? Quick background: Hope to do litigation work for larger firm post-clerkship.

KD35 wrote:TItle says it. I've heard that generally a clerkship for a state supreme court is as positive on your resume as a district court. My question is: Is having a CA SC clerkship, if I am trying to work in LA post-clerkship, as beneficial as a CD CA clerkship? Quick background: Hope to do litigation work for larger firm post-clerkship.

The California Supreme Court is one of the few state courts where I would say this is true. It's a court that oversees a population of 50 million people.

I thought the CA Supreme Court generally didn't hire term clerks? (That may be out of date information, though.)

Goodwin Liu hires term clerks.

I suspect the new appointee will as well.

Anyone have any idea on the level of competition for getting such a position? Guessing it is very high since there are very few openings for the court.

KD35 wrote:Anyone have any idea on the level of competition for getting such a position? Guessing it is very high since there are very few openings for the court.

It's high. Fairly above average grades from B don't automatically make the cut.

Competitiveness: Several friends who graduated magna cum laude from HLS applied to clerk for Liu and did not get it. Two got interviews and did not get it, and a few did not even get interviews. So it appears to be at least as competitive as most desirable COA clerkships.

Agreed. CA is an exception to the general rule. Plus, because only Liu hires term clerks, and because he's widely admired, it's sweet if you can get a Liu clerkship. He's becoming a SCOTUS feeder. I, like the poster above, imagine Cuellar will take term clerks too.

To be clear, though, I'm not saying Cal Supreme is the obvious better choice. I think a lot of employers and practitioners still think of it as "federal>state." Also, I think Liu has a strong preference (if not an outright requirement) for prior federal clerkship experience. Some of his recent clerks came from the 9th Circuit and the DC Circuit.

Tanicius wrote:

KD35 wrote:Anyone have any idea on the level of competition for getting such a position? Guessing it is very high since there are very few openings for the court.

It's high. Fairly above average grades from B don't automatically make the cut.

To explicate, I'm at a T50-60, top 5%.

But all great info on Liu, super informative.

KD35 wrote:

Tanicius wrote:

KD35 wrote:Anyone have any idea on the level of competition for getting such a position? Guessing it is very high since there are very few openings for the court.

It's high. Fairly above average grades from B don't automatically make the cut.

To explicate, I'm at a T50-60, top 5%.

But all great info on Liu, super informative.

If you have ties to California (as in, you grew up there, you got a job offer there, or you went to law school there) then I think you could certainly have a shot.

Tanicius wrote:

KD35 wrote: To explicate, I'm at a T50-60, top 5%.

But all great info on Liu, super informative.

If you have ties to California (as in, you grew up there, you got a job offer there, or you went to law school there) then I think you could certainly have a shot.

There's certainly no harm in applying, but based on what I know about the qualifications of Liu's recent hires, the poster does not have a realistic shot with those credentials.

Tanicius wrote:

KD35 wrote:

Tanicius wrote:

KD35 wrote:Anyone have any idea on the level of competition for getting such a position? Guessing it is very high since there are very few openings for the court.

It's high. Fairly above average grades from B don't automatically make the cut.

To explicate, I'm at a T50-60, top 5%.

But all great info on Liu, super informative.

If you have ties to California (as in, you grew up there, you got a job offer there, or you went to law school there) then I think you could certainly have a shot.

The "top 5%" poster, unless #1 in his/her class at Hastings/Davis with a prior clerkship (N.D. Cal, S.D.N.Y., or D.D.C., maybe, otherwise COA), has what effectively amounts to a 0% chance with Justice Liu, and will have a near-zero chance with Justice Cuellar, if/when he is confirmed (and word on the street is that he will be also taking term clerks).

Feeder level performance with at least one prior clerkship is a requirement to get into that chambers, but word on the street is that Justice Liu is a fabulous boss.

[source: I and several friends interviewed with Justice Liu in the past couple of years.]

Anonymous User wrote:Goodwin Liu hires term clerks.

I suspect the new appointee will as well.

Rumor is his current clerk is SCOTUS-bound. I think. So, keep that in mind.

Also, correct, he is the only Justice who hires term clerks. The rest have staff attorneys and a central civil/criminal staff.

As to OP, it depends on what you want to do. The overwhelming bulk of the CASC's docket is criminal.

I think CA, Del. and Del. Chancery, and NY Court of Appeals are unique.

Yeah several Liu clerks have snagged SCOTUS clerkships at this point.

I understand that you need to accept once given the position....

but if you don't have the option yet for either what is the point of asking? It seems to me like you haven't applied nor have you thought about this.

It is difficult to get CDCA without work experience 1, and 2, even top 5% from a top 50 will be a hard sell for either of those.

So apply and then see what happens. Accept who gives you the offer.

Thinking about it beforehand is silly.

crossingforHYS wrote:I understand that you need to accept once given the position....

but if you don't have the option yet for either what is the point of asking? It seems to me like you haven't applied nor have you thought about this.

It is difficult to get CDCA without work experience 1, and 2, even top 5% from a top 50 will be a hard sell for either of those.

So apply and then see what happens. Accept who gives you the offer.

Thinking about it beforehand is silly.

Asking questions about it isn't silly. Trying to do my research behind it and get a sense of each.

Also current school places well in CDCA, 2 recent appointments to CDCA went to my LS and are very involved in alumni relations stuff.

KD35 wrote:

crossingforHYS wrote:I understand that you need to accept once given the position....

but if you don't have the option yet for either what is the point of asking? It seems to me like you haven't applied nor have you thought about this.

It is difficult to get CDCA without work experience 1, and 2, even top 5% from a top 50 will be a hard sell for either of those.

So apply and then see what happens. Accept who gives you the offer.

Thinking about it beforehand is silly.

Asking questions about it isn't silly. Trying to do my research behind it and get a sense of each.

Also current school places well in CDCA, 2 recent appointments to CDCA went to my LS and are very involved in alumni relations stuff.

[Current Cal. District Court clerk here]

If at Pepperdine, I'd say absolutely no chance at Justice Liu (unless #1 or 2, EIC of PLR, and prior COA). Though I agree that C.D. Cal. is not out of reach for a someone there in the top 5% and LR with a good application.

This is fascinating stuff--I wasn't aware that any CA justices took term clerks.

Not OP, but would like to build off this thread. What are timelines like for applying to CA S. Ct.? When would be the right time to apply coming off a '15/'16 9th Circuit clerkship?

Not SCOTUS feeder type stats, but MVP top 5% w/LR board. Am I competitive, or is a California law school/HY essentially required? California born and raised, FWIW.

I mean, basically it's the Liu timeline and soon to be the Cuellar timeline. Liu has hired at least two years in advance from the people I know who have done it.

Anonymous User wrote:
[Current Cal. District Court clerk here]

If at Pepperdine, I'd say absolutely no chance at Justice Liu (unless #1 or 2, EIC of PLR, and prior COA). Though I agree that C.D. Cal. is not out of reach for a someone there in the top 5% and LR with a good application.

So it definitely sounds like needing SCOTUS feeder-like stats to be able to get CA SC. But thank you for that feedback!

From what I understand, Liu is almost as hard to get as SCOTUS. I have a friend who clerked on the 9th Circuit, was top 5% from T10, and whose judge personally recommended them to Liu, and she didn't even get an interview with him. He is about as selective as it gets from everything I hear.

"Almost as hard as SCOTUS" seems a bit of an overstatement. I'd say it's more like applying to a feeder COA judge (which is exactly what he'd be if republicans hadn't blocked his nomination).

Anonymous User wrote:"Almost as hard as SCOTUS" seems a bit of an overstatement. I'd say it's more like applying to a feeder COA judge (which is exactly what he'd be if republicans hadn't blocked his nomination).

Not to nitpick here, but isn't applying to a feeder COA judge "almost as hard as SCOTUS"? I mean, feeders get their clerks onto SCOTUS so that necessarily means they (many, not all) have the stats for SCOTUS.

I'll echo other sentiments regarding Justice Liu: Great reputation, but extremely difficult to get. He really only hires clerks who have CoA experience. And not just anyone, either. For example, one of his SCOTUS clerks for the upcoming term was a Rakoff/Katzmann clerk first. The other was a Reinhardt/Tatel clerk.

Anonymous User wrote:I'll echo other sentiments regarding Justice Liu: Great reputation, but extremely difficult to get. He really only hires clerks who have CoA experience. And not just anyone, either. For example, one of his SCOTUS clerks for the upcoming term was a Rakoff/Katzmann clerk first. The other was a Reinhardt/Tatel clerk.

I think some of this is attributable to being a new judge--many COA judges similarly like to hire experienced clerks in their first term or two. At least one of his 2015-'16 clerks will be coming straight from law school.