Top grades--->non-T14 school Forum

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Does anyone have experience to share about being a top person (let's say top 5 or at most 10 people in the class) at a non-T14 school. How did you do?

[Anonymous User]

Ranked 2 to 4 at a school that bounces between 25 and 35.

It was fairly erratic. I targeted quite a few COA spots, but only in cities I felt comfortable living, blanketed a few districts including g the one my school is in. No CoA interviews, two interviews in my home district (both selected other candidates, one took people at higher ranked schools another took a person with a year of experience from my school), and one interview in a top 10 population city that I landed (had connections to a former clerk who recommended me).

To be honest, I think my application package could have improved, particularly writing sample. But I am not sure that would have done anything, just my Monday morning quarterbacking of it.

[Anonymous User]

The number 1-2 person at my lower T1 got a COA clerkship with one of the judges in my LS circuit (not 2/9/DC). It's a circuit filled with regional schools - not sure there's even a single
T14 in it - and it wasn't our law school state or his home state (though one state over). However, the other 1-2 person in our class sent 50-60 federal applications and didn't even get an interview; she ended up with SSC. (I say 1-2 because they swapped the position throughout school and I'm not sure what rank they were when they applied; they might have even been tied.) I don't know for absolute certain that they applied to the same judges, but I'd say 95% sure they did.

If I had to hazard a guess as to reasons, I suspect he was better about getting people to go to bat for him (she's also amazing, but a quieter, more reserved personality who doesn't put herself forward as much). The only other difference I can think of is that he was a native of the region and she was a transplant (but like I said, he wasn't from the state where he got hired). But it's more likely luck of the draw.

FWIW, I think it was relatively common, or at least let's say feasible, for the top 1-2 people to get a COA. Much deeper than that in the class it was a crapshoot and much less likely.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know how far outside T14 you are, so this may not help.

I was around No. 10 in a class of about 260, at a regional T2 that was ranked between 80-95 when I applied. I applied both in my area and across the country. Only heard back from three district judges, but got two offers; one in my region and one in another part of the country. I took the latter. I then applied to CoA for afterward and got a clerkship in a fairly competitive circuit where I want to settle down (not 2d/9th/DC).

Don't have any real outstanding softs or anything, not URM, but I did check all the boxes off on my resume (LR, moot court, etc.)

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

x

[rpupkin]

I'm at a top 40/50 school and I'm third in my class. I'm trying to figure out what is realistic and if I have a chance at competitive districts and competitive COA positions

What is your definition of "competitive districts and competitive COA positions"?

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I'm at a top 40/50 school and I'm third in my class. I'm trying to figure out what is realistic and if I have a chance at competitive districts and competitive COA positions

What is your definition of "competitive districts and competitive COA positions"?

I'm basically wondering where I have no shot. I get it that SCOTUS is out and a lot of the major feeder/famous judges (ex. Posner, Kozinski). Beyond that what else is impossible?

[ResIpsa21]

I'm at a top 40/50 school and I'm third in my class. I'm trying to figure out what is realistic and if I have a chance at competitive districts and competitive COA positions

What is your definition of "competitive districts and competitive COA positions"?

I'm basically wondering where I have no shot. I get it that SCOTUS is out and a lot of the major feeder/famous judges (ex. Posner, Kozinski). Beyond that what else is impossible?

My advice is not to sell yourself short. Yes, it's wise to be realistic and accept that your chances of major feeders and SCOTUS are slim-to-none, but you don't do yourself any favors by finding out "what's impossible" and then self-selecting out of potential opportunities. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

As for your credentials, I would recommend reading through the sticky SCOTUS clerk taking questions thread. There is some good discussion there for top students at lower-ranked schools. Also remember that judge hiring is extremely idiosyncratic and hard to predict. You really won't know what you're competitive for until you apply. Others on this board may have more specific advice about particular big-name judges.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm at a top 40/50 school and I'm third in my class. I'm trying to figure out what is realistic and if I have a chance at competitive districts and competitive COA positions

What is your definition of "competitive districts and competitive COA positions"?

I'm basically wondering where I have no shot. I get it that SCOTUS is out and a lot of the major feeder/famous judges (ex. Posner, Kozinski). Beyond that what else is impossible?

If you're going to apply at all, I don't see any reason not to apply anywhere you'd be willing to work. It doesn't hurt anything to throw out applications. Clerkship hiring is idiosyncratic and hard to predict, you never know what will happen.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

There's one entry in that SCOTUS clerk thread which is relevant here in terms of likelihood:

"Anonymous User wrote:
How do you feel about T50-70 top 2% student with LR/Moot Court getting non feeder COA right out of LS? Figure that even if I was #1, I still wouldn't get SCOTUS, only a person or two has ever gotten it from my school.

This is OP.

I'd handicap your odds at about 1 in 15 right out of LS, 1 in 4 with a d. ct. clerkship under your belt. These are rough numbers.

~0% shot at SCOTUS. Sorry."


The question for this thread is when you're at a little bit better school with these grades. So T25, T 35, or T45 and you have a single digit ranking. It's really hard to get a sense of this because:
1) I think many more people in this situation go to big law and don't clerk as compared to high ranking people at the t14
2) there is obviously a reluctance to share detailed info. on outcomes by people in this type of situation because you don't want to be outed

I'm particularly interested in S.D.N.Y./D.C./D.C. Cir./2nd Cir. if anyone has stories to share.

[rpupkin]

There's one entry in that SCOTUS clerk thread which is relevant here in terms of likelihood:

"Anonymous User wrote:
How do you feel about T50-70 top 2% student with LR/Moot Court getting non feeder COA right out of LS? Figure that even if I was #1, I still wouldn't get SCOTUS, only a person or two has ever gotten it from my school.

This is OP.

I'd handicap your odds at about 1 in 15 right out of LS, 1 in 4 with a d. ct. clerkship under your belt. These are rough numbers.

~0% shot at SCOTUS. Sorry."


The question for this thread is when you're at a little bit better school with these grades. So T25, T 35, or T45 and you have a single digit ranking. It's really hard to get a sense of this because:
1) I think many more people in this situation go to big law and don't clerk as compared to high ranking people at the t14
2) there is obviously a reluctance to share detailed info. on outcomes by people in this type of situation because you don't want to be outed

I'm particularly interested in S.D.N.Y./D.C./D.C. Cir./2nd Cir. if anyone has stories to share.

In my opinion, SCOTUS clerk's assessment applies to you just as much as it applies to a similarly ranked student from a "T50-70" school. The fact that you're from a school ranked between 40 and 50 doesn't change the odds.

I clerked in one of the four courts you're interested in. I think you have close to no chance at any of the four. But, as anony points out, there's no harm in applying. What you really need is a professor (or some other recommender) who has a close relationship with a judge.

ETA: It matters, of course, where your "T40 - T50" school is located. If you're, say, third in your class at George Mason, then I think you'd have a shot at a D.C. District court clerkship with the right recommenders. But if your school is outside of DC/NY, then you probably should give up thinking about S.D.N.Y./D.C./D.C. Cir./2nd Cir. I'd focus on judges in the region in which your school is located, as well as judges in less competitive clerkships in other regions (i.e., not S.D.N.Y./D.C./D.C. Cir./2nd Cir).

[Anonymous User]

Ranked 2 to 4 at a school that bounces between 25 and 35.

It was fairly erratic. I targeted quite a few COA spots, but only in cities I felt comfortable living, blanketed a few districts including g the one my school is in. No CoA interviews, two interviews in my home district (both selected other candidates, one took people at higher ranked schools another took a person with a year of experience from my school), and one interview in a top 10 population city that I landed (had connections to a former clerk who recommended me).

To be honest, I think my application package could have improved, particularly writing sample. But I am not sure that would have done anything, just my Monday morning quarterbacking of it.

I'll piggyback off of this post to provide (hopefully) more data points (since it sounds like I applied less discriminatorily to COA judges): top 1% (rank 2-3) at top 40ish school. Submitted roughly 85 applications, blanketing COA across the country and then districts within my home state (where my law school is also located).

Received 2 COA and 2 district clerkship interviews--all within the circuit in which my school is located; dinged at both COA and accepted one of the district court gigs.