SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships Forum

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:37 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:54 pm
Any idea what the rough grading minimum is at Chicago to be reasonably competitive? Our grades are so unusual that I have no idea what the equivalent of straight Hs would be. I suspect there's a large difference between the liberals and the conservatives; I think more conservative clerks are hired with below high honors (including one currently clerking for Thomas) than liberal clerks are hired period, as Breyer is the only liberal justice who hires from Chicago more than very, very occasionally.

(Speaking of which, does anyone know if Chicago did something in particular to piss off Ginsburg, Kagan, and Sotomayor, or are they just big HYS/East Coast types in general? I've heard rumors that Kagan had an unhappy breakup with the school.)
Chicago student, not a SCOTUS clerk, sorry if I'm not supposed to reply to this, but have some relevant info. Just looking at who's clerked for conservative justices out of Chicago, it does seem like most (not all) of them are around high honors, and most (not all) of the liberal SCOTUS clerks are highest honors. That being said, what really matters is getting a clerkship with a feeder or semi-feeder, playing your cards as best as you can with professors and whatnot, and then just leaving it up to chance.

I'd take this with a grain of salt, but a recent alum once told me the rough grade cutoffs are something like 180+ it's not impossible, 181+ it's plausible, 182+ you stand a strong chance (because you're probably the valedictorian). Might be lower for conservatives, not sure. As a data-point, I'm a lib in the high-honors range and the clerkship-oriented profs have given me the impression that I'm a plausible SCOTUS clerkship candidate with the right lower-court clerkship(s), but by no means the obvious chosen one they're going to have Dean Miles breaking down doors for.

In terms of specific liberal justices, Breyer actually hasn't hired from us recently. Kagan is starting to; impression I get is relationships on the faculty are just starting to bring that to fruition. RBG actually hired from us quite recently, but obviously that's not a possibility anymore (may her memory be a blessing). Sotomayor hasn't since her Second Circuit days, but we haven't had a Sotomayor clerk on the faculty until very recently. Also, Roberts hires a lot of libs, and he's just started hiring from Chicago (I expect him to do so more in the future), and I believe the jury's still out on whether Barrett will hire counterclerks--she does love Chicago.

Tangentially related, if Breyer does retire and gets replaced with K.B. Jackson, she has hired from Chicago relatively recently; but if Leondra Kruger gets the spot, I don't believe she's ever hired Chicago.
Kruger hired from Chicago last year. If you're on LR it was a board member so you can look it up on the board clerkship list. Unfortunately the main clerkship manual is still behind for the class of '20. Also note that the only Kagan clerk was a Black woman which is a special circumstance (and Kagan doesn't hire below HYS really, it's not only a Chicago thing). But yes Roberts has one this year and I feel like that may continue due to Baude, ACB should help in general (though likely not for libs), and Jackson or Kruger may be a significant improvement over Breyer if/when they get appointed. Kruger spent a bit of time at the Law School earlier in her career.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by raybplak » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:39 am

Can someone explain the process/timing of applying to SCOTUS clerk. I go to a Non-T1 school, but I know some of the justices have hired lower than top 30-40, so I figure, why not?

The problem is my school doesn’t even place many COA clerks, so I have no resources for knowing how/when to apply to SCOTUS.

Any tips? It’d be great if someone has useful links, tips, etc.

And yes, I know my chances are super unlikely. So please don’t blow up the replies telling me I’m wasting my time! Ha!

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by nixy » Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:19 am

I’m not sure any of them have hired outside the T1 - Thomas has hired outside of the T14 but I think still all T1 schools. (I guess Sotomayor hired a woman from U Hawaii but that doesn’t seem typical for her.)

In any case, you’re going to have to have faculty support to have even a snowball’s chance, so talk to profs at your school. If you have any former SCOTUS clerks at your school, or anyone who clerked for feeder judges, talk to them.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:46 pm

raybplak wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:39 am
Can someone explain the process/timing of applying to SCOTUS clerk. I go to a Non-T1 school, but I know some of the justices have hired lower than top 30-40, so I figure, why not?

The problem is my school doesn’t even place many COA clerks, so I have no resources for knowing how/when to apply to SCOTUS.

Any tips? It’d be great if someone has useful links, tips, etc.

And yes, I know my chances are super unlikely. So please don’t blow up the replies telling me I’m wasting my time! Ha!
You need someone, or preferably several someones, with direct connection to a Justice to get your application pulled. As the very helpful "SCOTUS anon" said many times earlier on this thread, even if you're #1 at your school and accomplished everything imaginable from there, you're going to be up against people who did the same, except at Yale and Harvard.

Impressing the hell out of a feeder judge (think "best clerk I've had in a decade" from someone who regularly places clerks) is a good place to start, and probably close to a prerequisite if the Justices aren't regularly hiring from your school. Publishing a well-received article in a major journal (especially on a conlaw topic of interest to the Justices) is another building block. A top-end fellowship, contacts with well-connected political people, or working for (and impressing) a prominent Supreme Court litigator in private practice can also help.

It's a hugely uphill battle for T14 students outside of YHS, and even moreso for non-T14 students, but it does happen. Good luck!

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:03 am

nixy wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:19 am
I’m not sure any of them have hired outside the T1 - Thomas has hired outside of the T14 but I think still all T1 schools. (I guess Sotomayor hired a woman from U Hawaii but that doesn’t seem typical for her.)

In any case, you’re going to have to have faculty support to have even a snowball’s chance, so talk to profs at your school. If you have any former SCOTUS clerks at your school, or anyone who clerked for feeder judges, talk to them.
Thomas has hired from Creighton, Kansas, and Utah before--Patrick Strawbridge, Judge David Stras, and Tyler Green--but you don't see many deep-ranked Thomas clerks nowadays (if there ever were a lot). He's definitely the most likely to take a stab at someone outside the T1, and if you're ideologically compatible, your best chance at SCOTUS is probably via the Thomas feeder network. There are some examples from other justices. Alito has hired from Minnesota (Kyle Hawkins) and BYU (Mike Lee). And Gorsuch and Sotomayor have recently hired clerks from BYU and Hawaii, respectively. Several justices have hired from Notre Dame.

I think the first step for this is finding a feeder or semi-feeder willing to take on non-T14 students. The first judge that comes to mind is Stras, who had that background and has hired from Minnesota and Nebraska recently.

If you're liberal, you can forget about it. Kagan doesn't hire from Chicago and Columbia, let alone T2s, and I don't know of Breyer or Roberts ever dipping below the T14. Sotomayor has and might go for a very Sotomayor-y candidate if you fit her profile (social justice-oriented, ideally URM/female, etc.).

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by nixy » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:05 am

Thanks for clarifying re the clerks/schools I overlooked (although a bunch of those - Utah, BYU, Minnesota, Notre Dame - are T1 schools. The distinction may be less significant than T14 and not, of course).

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:03 am
nixy wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:19 am
I’m not sure any of them have hired outside the T1 - Thomas has hired outside of the T14 but I think still all T1 schools. (I guess Sotomayor hired a woman from U Hawaii but that doesn’t seem typical for her.)

In any case, you’re going to have to have faculty support to have even a snowball’s chance, so talk to profs at your school. If you have any former SCOTUS clerks at your school, or anyone who clerked for feeder judges, talk to them.
Thomas has hired from Creighton, Kansas, and Utah before--Patrick Strawbridge, Judge David Stras, and Tyler Green--but you don't see many deep-ranked Thomas clerks nowadays (if there ever were a lot). He's definitely the most likely to take a stab at someone outside the T1, and if you're ideologically compatible, your best chance at SCOTUS is probably via the Thomas feeder network. There are some examples from other justices. Alito has hired from Minnesota (Kyle Hawkins) and BYU (Mike Lee). And Gorsuch and Sotomayor have recently hired clerks from BYU and Hawaii, respectively. Several justices have hired from Notre Dame.

I think the first step for this is finding a feeder or semi-feeder willing to take on non-T14 students. The first judge that comes to mind is Stras, who had that background and has hired from Minnesota and Nebraska recently.

If you're liberal, you can forget about it. Kagan doesn't hire from Chicago and Columbia, let alone T2s, and I don't know of Breyer or Roberts ever dipping below the T14. Sotomayor has and might go for a very Sotomayor-y candidate if you fit her profile (social justice-oriented, ideally URM/female, etc.).
Just as a reference point, Judge Stras will only consider students with a 4.0+ from Minnesota (where he was formerly a law prof), so it's going to be a majorly uphill battle to land a clerkship with him from a lower-tier school. Would have to basically be valedictorian plus some demonstrated FedSoc ties, I would imagine.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:43 pm

For whatever it's worth, I was invited to interview with Stras with a 3.9 (which likely placed me top 10 in my class) out of UVA and demonstrated conservative ties. You can probably adjust based on schools from there. I got the impression that he is very much trying to become a feeder by looking for students who may have just missed out being hired by established feeders, but could still have a plausible case for SCOTUS.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:43 pm
For whatever it's worth, I was invited to interview with Stras with a 3.9 (which likely placed me top 10 in my class) out of UVA and demonstrated conservative ties. You can probably adjust based on schools from there. I got the impression that he is very much trying to become a feeder by looking for students who may have just missed out being hired by established feeders, but could still have a plausible case for SCOTUS.
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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:28 am

Hi all, thanks for your helpful replies. I’m the original poster of that question. My question was really geared towards another, more procedural matter.

I am really just trying to figure out HOW and when to apply. In other words, what is the PROCESS? I know that they don’t use Oscar, so how do they take applications? Does anybody have a step-by-step approach as to the application itself? And the timing? Do they hire multiple years in advance or a year out? Where you do you send the application; just mail to the Court? There’s a non-exhaustive list, but that’s the type of information I’m looking for.

Sorry if these are stupid questions; again, it’s just that my school doesn’t typically place (or even have people apply to be) supreme court clerks and therefore nobody here has any of this type of information.

That’s really the type of stuff I’m trying to find out—I’ve decided I’m going to apply despite the fact that my chances are extremely low. The problem is I just don’t know how or when to do it. Make sense?

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Barrred » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:28 am
Hi all, thanks for your helpful replies. I’m the original poster of that question. My question was really geared towards another, more procedural matter.

I am really just trying to figure out HOW and when to apply. In other words, what is the PROCESS? I know that they don’t use Oscar, so how do they take applications? Does anybody have a step-by-step approach as to the application itself? And the timing? Do they hire multiple years in advance or a year out? Where you do you send the application; just mail to the Court? There’s a non-exhaustive list, but that’s the type of information I’m looking for.

Sorry if these are stupid questions; again, it’s just that my school doesn’t typically place (or even have people apply to be) supreme court clerks and therefore nobody here has any of this type of information.

That’s really the type of stuff I’m trying to find out—I’ve decided I’m going to apply despite the fact that my chances are extremely low. The problem is I just don’t know how or when to do it. Make sense?
It sucks that your school isn't able to help you with this. Honestly, I'd reach out to any of your friends/people you know who go to T14s (maybe even T20s) and ask if they can get you a copy of their school's clerkship application manual (maybe this goes against those schools' policies regarding sharing the manual, but whatever). Those manuals have all this information. But ultimately, there isn't much to it. My understanding is that there isn't really a set time period for applying, because the Justices are all on different timelines. Just get your application materials together (Cover letter, Resume, LS/UG Transcripts, Writing Sample, 3-4 Letters of Recommendation--usually sent separately by your school), put them together in FedEx Overnight envelopes, and mail them to each of the Justices. Some people say you need to apply to all of the Justices (+ the retired justices still taking clerks), but I think that's less true these days than back when SOC would apparently hold it against you if you didn't apply to every justice. The addresses/salutation conventions can be found online. By googling, I found that UC Davis' clerkship guide is public online, and while it doesn't have a SCOTUS section, it does have the address/salutations listed. Good luck.
[ETA: I'm not a SCOTUS clerk, but I applied once upon a time. Take this with that big grain of salt.]

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by nixy » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:17 pm

Barrred’s answer was more concretely helpful, but one of the reasons I suggested talking to any faculty who clerked for SCOTUS (or frankly expand that to COAs, I had profs who did COA clerkships and applied to SCOTUS but didn’t get it) is that they can also advise you about these kinds of logistics, in a way that will maximize what chances you have.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:43 pm
For whatever it's worth, I was invited to interview with Stras with a 3.9 (which likely placed me top 10 in my class) out of UVA and demonstrated conservative ties. You can probably adjust based on schools from there. I got the impression that he is very much trying to become a feeder by looking for students who may have just missed out being hired by established feeders, but could still have a plausible case for SCOTUS.
I interviewed with Stras and was also somewhere in single digits of an upper T14 class. He's definitely gunning to be a feeder. I'm sure you need a 4.0+ to grab him from a T2+ school, but let's be real, you need a 4.0+ to get SCOTUS from a T2+ school.

Also, a couple of other Thomas hires from a non-T14 T1s--Judge Kathryn Mizelle (Florida) and Andrew Pinson (Georgia).

For OP, I assume you already have a federal appellate clerkship of some sort (if not, it's a literal prerequisite, nobody is hired without one anymore). Maybe talk to your judge about the application process. Even if they've never fed, chances are they've had a clerk or two apply before. Also I second Nixy's advice about talking to profs, especially those that clerked for SCOTUS or feeders. If nothing else they will certainly know people who have recently clerked for SCOTUS, legal academia is a very small world stuffed with SCOTUS clerks.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:23 pm

[Disclaimer: I realize that this is an obnoxious question, and "must-be-nice" responses are warranted.]

Is there a point in one's career at which clerking for SCOTUS no longer makes sense (ignoring personal considerations)? I'm a 6th-to-8th year biglaw associate, with two clerkships under my belt from a few years back, and I've recently been approached by my law school about applying to SCOTUS (with more justices wanting experienced clerks, I guess this is becoming more common). (Anon because this information + my posting history would out me.) Assume for purposes of this question that my credentials/judges/recommenders/demographics mean that I'd have a non-trivial shot.

I'm trying to determine if it is even worth applying (recognizing that launching a serious bid is more than just submitting apps, and would require calling in a lot of favors, etc., for a very small chance at getting the clerkship). Can anyone help me think through the career benefits I'd see this late (relatively speaking) in my career if I was lucky enough to land the job? (I'm doing well at my firm, have been told I have good partnership prospects, and already do a good mix of appellate/trial-level litigation work.)

Another way to ask this is: What career benefits did that recent Gorsuch clerk who was already a partner at his firm get from clerking on the Court?

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:23 pm
[Disclaimer: I realize that this is an obnoxious question, and "must-be-nice" responses are warranted.]

Is there a point in one's career at which clerking for SCOTUS no longer makes sense (ignoring personal considerations)? I'm a 6th-to-8th year biglaw associate, with two clerkships under my belt from a few years back, and I've recently been approached by my law school about applying to SCOTUS (with more justices wanting experienced clerks, I guess this is becoming more common). (Anon because this information + my posting history would out me.) Assume for purposes of this question that my credentials/judges/recommenders/demographics mean that I'd have a non-trivial shot.

I'm trying to determine if it is even worth applying (recognizing that launching a serious bid is more than just submitting apps, and would require calling in a lot of favors, etc., for a very small chance at getting the clerkship). Can anyone help me think through the career benefits I'd see this late (relatively speaking) in my career if I was lucky enough to land the job? (I'm doing well at my firm, have been told I have good partnership prospects, and already do a good mix of appellate/trial-level litigation work.)

Another way to ask this is: What career benefits did that recent Gorsuch clerk who was already a partner at his firm get from clerking on the Court?
I know someone who clerked for SCOTUS relatively later in their career (probably a couple more years out of law school than you, actually) and who already had had the dream jobs that a SCOTUS clerkship would help them get. I asked them why they still wanted to clerk despite that and basically their logic was that it would make them better at their current dream job (which they were very passionate about) upon returning and that they just really wanted to see how the sausage is made.

So I think it depends on what you want to do in your career. If you want to go into academia, high level appellate work (though that ship may have already sailed if you aren't on that track already), or have a much better shot at becoming a partner at your firm, then I think it would be worth it to try to call in those favors. Otherwise, it depends on how much you want the gold star and how inherently interested you are in SCOTUS decisionmaking processes.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 08, 2021 11:34 pm

Would a state appellate court judge have a shot at SCOTUS clerk if they would not otherwise have the credentials? Has this ever happened before?

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Iowahawk » Sat May 08, 2021 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:34 pm
Would a state appellate court judge have a shot at SCOTUS clerk if they would not otherwise have the credentials? Has this ever happened before?
Very strange question, but no, there are hundreds or thousands of state appellate judges in the country, it’s not special enough to overcome the lack of the usual bells and whistles. And obviously SCOTUS clerks, even Gorsuch’s, are at least mildly recent grads (like a decade out of school at the latest), which excludes almost all judges.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 09, 2021 12:00 pm

nixy wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:05 am
Thanks for clarifying re the clerks/schools I overlooked (although a bunch of those - Utah, BYU, Minnesota, Notre Dame - are T1 schools. The distinction may be less significant than T14 and not, of course).
One of the Republican candidates for Virginia Attorney General, Jack White, went to Pepperdine Law and campaigned on his experience clerking for Alito. He may have been a unique case though because he previously clerked for Alito on the 3rd Circuit and was rehired when Alito was elevated.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by throwaway9876 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:26 pm

Hi all, thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

I'm a current 2/9/DC Cir. clerk. Before clerking I did the strong-grades-at-YHS-thing, then an academic/teaching fellowship for a year. I've really enjoyed my clerkship and would like to throw my hat into the ring for a SCOTUS clerkship.

I'm planning to take a biglaw job when I finish this clerkship in the fall, because I have some family expenses and really astounding student loan debt. I'd look to join an appellate practice group, though I'm particularly interested in work with transnational/sovereign-state elements.

My questions, if anyone would be so kind, are these.

First, in terms of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make what kind of practice group I join? E.g., general appellate versus something perhaps less relevant, like international arbitration.

Second, again in terms of the strength of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make which firm I join among V20 or so? Given the realities, my decision would be primarily based on things like work and fit. But all things being equal, is there a difference between going to, e.g., Cravath versus White & Case? What about farther down, e.g., Susman?

Thanks again!

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:01 pm

throwaway9876 wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:26 pm
Hi all, thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

I'm a current 2/9/DC Cir. clerk. Before clerking I did the strong-grades-at-YHS-thing, then an academic/teaching fellowship for a year. I've really enjoyed my clerkship and would like to throw my hat into the ring for a SCOTUS clerkship.

I'm planning to take a biglaw job when I finish this clerkship in the fall, because I have some family expenses and really astounding student loan debt. I'd look to join an appellate practice group, though I'm particularly interested in work with transnational/sovereign-state elements.

My questions, if anyone would be so kind, are these.

First, in terms of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make what kind of practice group I join? E.g., general appellate versus something perhaps less relevant, like international arbitration.

Second, again in terms of the strength of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make which firm I join among V20 or so? Given the realities, my decision would be primarily based on things like work and fit. But all things being equal, is there a difference between going to, e.g., Cravath versus White & Case? What about farther down, e.g., Susman?

Thanks again!
I'm not a former SCOTUS clerk, but I'm responding since I'm not sure any of the SCOTUS clerks still monitor this thread.

My two cents: When I (unsuccessfully) interviewed with a SCOTUS justice a couple years ago, I had similar credentials to you, and I got the sense that the Justice and clerks were far less interested in my biglaw firm/practice than in my clerkship experience and general thoughts on the law. That said, I did get asked about my current practice, and it was nice to be able to say that I'm doing appellate work (at a V10, though that didn't specifically come up).

SCOTUS is such a long shot for anyone, that it doesn't make sense to choose a firm just based on SCOTUS prospects, so just pick a firm you like. But I would, if possible, try to at least have one foot in the appellate group, if possible (a lot of firms don't make you pick one group within litigation until much later), just so that you can keep your appellate bona fides.

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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by redinablue » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:17 pm

throwaway9876 wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:26 pm
Hi all, thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

I'm a current 2/9/DC Cir. clerk. Before clerking I did the strong-grades-at-YHS-thing, then an academic/teaching fellowship for a year. I've really enjoyed my clerkship and would like to throw my hat into the ring for a SCOTUS clerkship.

I'm planning to take a biglaw job when I finish this clerkship in the fall, because I have some family expenses and really astounding student loan debt. I'd look to join an appellate practice group, though I'm particularly interested in work with transnational/sovereign-state elements.

My questions, if anyone would be so kind, are these.

First, in terms of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make what kind of practice group I join? E.g., general appellate versus something perhaps less relevant, like international arbitration.

Second, again in terms of the strength of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make which firm I join among V20 or so? Given the realities, my decision would be primarily based on things like work and fit. But all things being equal, is there a difference between going to, e.g., Cravath versus White & Case? What about farther down, e.g., Susman?

Thanks again!
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Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by throwaway9876 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:01 pm
throwaway9876 wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:26 pm
Hi all, thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

I'm a current 2/9/DC Cir. clerk. Before clerking I did the strong-grades-at-YHS-thing, then an academic/teaching fellowship for a year. I've really enjoyed my clerkship and would like to throw my hat into the ring for a SCOTUS clerkship.

I'm planning to take a biglaw job when I finish this clerkship in the fall, because I have some family expenses and really astounding student loan debt. I'd look to join an appellate practice group, though I'm particularly interested in work with transnational/sovereign-state elements.

My questions, if anyone would be so kind, are these.

First, in terms of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make what kind of practice group I join? E.g., general appellate versus something perhaps less relevant, like international arbitration.

Second, again in terms of the strength of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make which firm I join among V20 or so? Given the realities, my decision would be primarily based on things like work and fit. But all things being equal, is there a difference between going to, e.g., Cravath versus White & Case? What about farther down, e.g., Susman?

Thanks again!
I'm not a former SCOTUS clerk, but I'm responding since I'm not sure any of the SCOTUS clerks still monitor this thread.

My two cents: When I (unsuccessfully) interviewed with a SCOTUS justice a couple years ago, I had similar credentials to you, and I got the sense that the Justice and clerks were far less interested in my biglaw firm/practice than in my clerkship experience and general thoughts on the law. That said, I did get asked about my current practice, and it was nice to be able to say that I'm doing appellate work (at a V10, though that didn't specifically come up).

SCOTUS is such a long shot for anyone, that it doesn't make sense to choose a firm just based on SCOTUS prospects, so just pick a firm you like. But I would, if possible, try to at least have one foot in the appellate group, if possible (a lot of firms don't make you pick one group within litigation until much later), just so that you can keep your appellate bona fides.
Thanks so much for the response! I had the same thought, about just going somewhere I like given the long odds involved — so I’m glad to hear from someone else that I can pretty much follow my heart when it comes to picking a law firm (lol). I really appreciate your advice about practice groups too.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:47 pm

throwaway9876 wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:30 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:01 pm
throwaway9876 wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:26 pm
Hi all, thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

I'm a current 2/9/DC Cir. clerk. Before clerking I did the strong-grades-at-YHS-thing, then an academic/teaching fellowship for a year. I've really enjoyed my clerkship and would like to throw my hat into the ring for a SCOTUS clerkship.

I'm planning to take a biglaw job when I finish this clerkship in the fall, because I have some family expenses and really astounding student loan debt. I'd look to join an appellate practice group, though I'm particularly interested in work with transnational/sovereign-state elements.

My questions, if anyone would be so kind, are these.

First, in terms of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make what kind of practice group I join? E.g., general appellate versus something perhaps less relevant, like international arbitration.

Second, again in terms of the strength of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make which firm I join among V20 or so? Given the realities, my decision would be primarily based on things like work and fit. But all things being equal, is there a difference between going to, e.g., Cravath versus White & Case? What about farther down, e.g., Susman?

Thanks again!
I'm not a former SCOTUS clerk, but I'm responding since I'm not sure any of the SCOTUS clerks still monitor this thread.

My two cents: When I (unsuccessfully) interviewed with a SCOTUS justice a couple years ago, I had similar credentials to you, and I got the sense that the Justice and clerks were far less interested in my biglaw firm/practice than in my clerkship experience and general thoughts on the law. That said, I did get asked about my current practice, and it was nice to be able to say that I'm doing appellate work (at a V10, though that didn't specifically come up).

SCOTUS is such a long shot for anyone, that it doesn't make sense to choose a firm just based on SCOTUS prospects, so just pick a firm you like. But I would, if possible, try to at least have one foot in the appellate group, if possible (a lot of firms don't make you pick one group within litigation until much later), just so that you can keep your appellate bona fides.
Thanks so much for the response! I had the same thought, about just going somewhere I like given the long odds involved — so I’m glad to hear from someone else that I can pretty much follow my heart when it comes to picking a law firm (lol). I really appreciate your advice about practice groups too.
Firm connections can help you get SCOTUS though. If you go to a firm with a lot of former SCOTUS clerks, you'll have a few more people to vouch for you or to flag your application.

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Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:06 pm

throwaway9876 wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:26 pm
Hi all, thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

I'm a current 2/9/DC Cir. clerk. Before clerking I did the strong-grades-at-YHS-thing, then an academic/teaching fellowship for a year. I've really enjoyed my clerkship and would like to throw my hat into the ring for a SCOTUS clerkship.

I'm planning to take a biglaw job when I finish this clerkship in the fall, because I have some family expenses and really astounding student loan debt. I'd look to join an appellate practice group, though I'm particularly interested in work with transnational/sovereign-state elements.

My questions, if anyone would be so kind, are these.

First, in terms of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make what kind of practice group I join? E.g., general appellate versus something perhaps less relevant, like international arbitration.

Second, again in terms of the strength of my candidacy, how much of a difference does it make which firm I join among V20 or so? Given the realities, my decision would be primarily based on things like work and fit. But all things being equal, is there a difference between going to, e.g., Cravath versus White & Case? What about farther down, e.g., Susman?

Thanks again!
Former SCOTUS clerk here. Two things jump out from your post.

First, 2/9/DC isn't a particularly relevant metric. Are you clerking for a feeder, a semi-feeder, or a non-feeder? If a feeder, your firm choice may not matter. If a non-feeder, you'll need all the help you can get. A vouch from a leading light of the appellate bar wouldn't hurt.

Second, Vault rankings are beyond meaningless. No justice considers Susman Godfrey less impressive than Cravath or White & Case. As for going "farther down" the Vault rankings, top liberal "feeder" firms include Munger Tolles (V42) and Jenner & Block (V59). Top conservative "feeder" firms include the unranked Cooper & Kirk and Consovoy McCarthy. What do they all have in common? High concentrations of SCOTUS clerks and SCOTUS advocates. Relationships matter more than you could imagine.

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Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: SCOTUS clerk taking questions about federal clerkships

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:29 pm

Yeah that stuck out to me too--especially if you're doing appellate, but really for litigation in general, Vault is near-meaningless. Of the V5, only Latham and Kirkland have substantial appellate shops (though S&C does have Jeff Wall). I know White & Case is elite in international arbitration, which must be attractive to you, but it's not the sort of firm where you'll be working with SCOTUS-connected lawyers versus someplace like Jenner.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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