Let's Talk 10th Circuit! Forum

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:33 pm

I saw Carson just posted on OSCAR. An earlier commenter on a different thread mentioned he refuses to hire from T14 law schools. Is this true?

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:33 pm
I saw Carson just posted on OSCAR. An earlier commenter on a different thread mentioned he refuses to hire from T14 law schools. Is this true?
Not categorically.

I don’t know him that well, but he’s a cowboy type who has chambers in Roswell. He’s probably looking for clerks with whom he would get along with.

Definitely worth applying to regardless.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:33 pm
I saw Carson just posted on OSCAR. An earlier commenter on a different thread mentioned he refuses to hire from T14 law schools. Is this true?
I only know that he will hire and interview people from schools outside (and sometimes very far outside) the T14. No idea if that means he doesn’t consider T14 students at all.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:33 pm
I saw Carson just posted on OSCAR. An earlier commenter on a different thread mentioned he refuses to hire from T14 law schools. Is this true?
I only know that he will hire and interview people from schools outside (and sometimes very far outside) the T14. No idea if that means he doesn’t consider T14 students at all.
The three Carson clerks identifiable from a quick Google search for his name went to Baylor, Arizona, and New Mexico. That would seem to suggest he likes ties to the Southwest.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:33 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:33 pm
I saw Carson just posted on OSCAR. An earlier commenter on a different thread mentioned he refuses to hire from T14 law schools. Is this true?
I only know that he will hire and interview people from schools outside (and sometimes very far outside) the T14. No idea if that means he doesn’t consider T14 students at all.
The three Carson clerks identifiable from a quick Google search for his name went to Baylor, Arizona, and New Mexico. That would seem to suggest he likes ties to the Southwest.
I can confirm that it definitely helps.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:33 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:33 pm
I saw Carson just posted on OSCAR. An earlier commenter on a different thread mentioned he refuses to hire from T14 law schools. Is this true?
I only know that he will hire and interview people from schools outside (and sometimes very far outside) the T14. No idea if that means he doesn’t consider T14 students at all.
The three Carson clerks identifiable from a quick Google search for his name went to Baylor, Arizona, and New Mexico. That would seem to suggest he likes ties to the Southwest.
I can confirm that it definitely helps.
What would you say counts as a tie to the Southwest? To me, Southwest means Arizona and New Mexico, but maybe Texas counts too I guess?

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:43 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:33 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:33 pm
I saw Carson just posted on OSCAR. An earlier commenter on a different thread mentioned he refuses to hire from T14 law schools. Is this true?
I only know that he will hire and interview people from schools outside (and sometimes very far outside) the T14. No idea if that means he doesn’t consider T14 students at all.
The three Carson clerks identifiable from a quick Google search for his name went to Baylor, Arizona, and New Mexico. That would seem to suggest he likes ties to the Southwest.
I can confirm that it definitely helps.
What would you say counts as a tie to the Southwest? To me, Southwest means Arizona and New Mexico, but maybe Texas counts too I guess?
He had at least one clerk who went to University of Texas last year.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:16 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:43 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:33 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:33 pm
I saw Carson just posted on OSCAR. An earlier commenter on a different thread mentioned he refuses to hire from T14 law schools. Is this true?
I only know that he will hire and interview people from schools outside (and sometimes very far outside) the T14. No idea if that means he doesn’t consider T14 students at all.
The three Carson clerks identifiable from a quick Google search for his name went to Baylor, Arizona, and New Mexico. That would seem to suggest he likes ties to the Southwest.
I can confirm that it definitely helps.
What would you say counts as a tie to the Southwest? To me, Southwest means Arizona and New Mexico, but maybe Texas counts too I guess?
He had at least one clerk who went to University of Texas last year.
He’s had more than one. Considering Roswell is just west Texas, being from Texas seems like a plus.

Anonymous User
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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:55 pm

Does anyone know how quickly Carson tends to extend interview invitations?

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:55 pm
Does anyone know how quickly Carson tends to extend interview invitations?
An extremely long time.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:35 pm

To clarify Holmes is not remotely worth it right?

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:35 pm
To clarify Holmes is not remotely worth it right?
Not. At. All.

Stay far, far away.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:35 pm
To clarify Holmes is not remotely worth it right?
Not. At. All.

Stay far, far away.
I saw the new posting said minimum 60-hour work weeks. If you have personal experience, can you say whether issues would be more to do with work hours or chambers demeanor?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:23 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:35 pm
To clarify Holmes is not remotely worth it right?
Not. At. All.

Stay far, far away.
I saw the new posting said minimum 60-hour work weeks. If you have personal experience, can you say whether issues would be more to do with work hours or chambers demeanor?
Let me put it this way: there are plenty of happy clerks working 60-hour work weeks even though that is far from the norm in clerking. 60 hours with a boss who respects you and cares about your career is something most clerkship applicants will sign up for. Holmes is not that.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:25 pm

The culture was bad in the chambers of Jerome Holmes.

You work alone in your office 12+ hours a day in business attire. You work on Saturday and some Sundays. He sort of nods at you in the mornings (I think to monitor who is there when he is). He then works with his door closed until 9-11pm, often eating alone in his office. He hardly ever announces when he is leaving; I suspect to keep people working.

When I clerked, we'd have these forced in-chambers lunches like every two months. He would often talk about himself. That was about it as far as "mentorship." If you had a personal emergency or a big interview, he never asked about it. I doubt he knows where his clerks work or even live.

Sittings were highly informative. Other Judges and clerks would make comments expressing condolences for our experience with him. It has been said, but he travels alone, eats alone, and works alone. He has no kids and takes no vacations. For others, he is a manic worker and profoundly socially awkward.

You can see a real bad side of him as a clerk though. During my year, some of his "all clerk" emails were downright mean, almost designed to make you feel bad. As the year went on, co-clerks shared some of the things he sent individually. It was clear by the end that he's not a good person.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:25 pm
The culture was bad in the chambers of Jerome Holmes.

You work alone in your office 12+ hours a day in business attire. You work on Saturday and some Sundays. He sort of nods at you in the mornings (I think to monitor who is there when he is). He then works with his door closed until 9-11pm, often eating alone in his office. He hardly ever announces when he is leaving; I suspect to keep people working.

When I clerked, we'd have these forced in-chambers lunches like every two months. He would often talk about himself. That was about it as far as "mentorship." If you had a personal emergency or a big interview, he never asked about it. I doubt he knows where his clerks work or even live.

Sittings were highly informative. Other Judges and clerks would make comments expressing condolences for our experience with him. It has been said, but he travels alone, eats alone, and works alone. He has no kids and takes no vacations. For others, he is a manic worker and profoundly socially awkward.

You can see a real bad side of him as a clerk though. During my year, some of his "all clerk" emails were downright mean, almost designed to make you feel bad. As the year went on, co-clerks shared some of the things he sent individually. It was clear by the end that he's not a good person.
Peep the last three paragraphs of this recent article, too. https://www.coloradopolitics.com/news/c ... 5c2d6.html

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:15 pm

Former CA10 clerk with several friends who (unfortunately) clerked for Holmes here. In addition to the other reasons noted by prior posters--all of which are consistent with what I've heard--the professional experience sounds borderline worthless. He takes forever to write opinions, and the backlog is so bad that clerks almost never actually work on opinions dealing with the cases from that clerk's term. Everything goes through dozens of cycles of review, so you're almost always editing someone else's work on an opinion that (maybe) resolves a case from two terms prior. In most cases, "editing" involves cite-checking or other menial tasks; after all, those three-page string citations for the standard of review under Rule 56 don't just "write" themselves!

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:07 pm

For those speaking up about their experiences with Holmes I just want ya'll to know that I really deeply appreciate it and it saved me from even the chance of a terrible year. I know often there is a culture of not being vocal with negative experiences in clerkships so I just wanted to personally thank everyone for this highly useful information.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:07 pm
For those speaking up about their experiences with Holmes I just want ya'll to know that I really deeply appreciate it and it saved me from even the chance of a terrible year. I know often there is a culture of not being vocal with negative experiences in clerkships so I just wanted to personally thank everyone for this highly useful information.
Echoing this comment: thank you all for sharing the detailed info -- it's hugely helpful.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:23 am

Anybody know if Judge Shelby in Utah has hired?

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:23 am
Anybody know if Judge Shelby in Utah has hired?
School shows that he's been interviewing but nothing about hiring

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:54 am

Phillips posted, anyone have any insights on him as in how he is to work for?

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:54 am
Phillips posted, anyone have any insights on him as in how he is to work for?
I'm friends with someone who clerked for Phillips. Really nice and supportive of his clerks. And great hours from what I remember.

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:24 pm

Can someone who clerked on the Tenth give thoughts on each of the judges (active & senior) generally? Thank you!

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Re: Let's Talk 10th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:05 pm

Lot's of great info on Holmes, which is much appreciated. I have also seen negative things about Hartz on this board, but not as detailed. Does anyone have personal or secondhand experience they would be willing to share?

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