Don't worry. This is wrong. What the poster is likely referring to is that she hired SOME people for 2024. Does not mean that she is full for 2023. She is full for 2022 though.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:14 pmOh wow already. What a bummer - would've loved to just apply to the only former labor lawyer on the bench (other than Berzon of course). Yeah, she made an OSCAR account and even seemed to have updated her "Additional Information" section recently. Oh well, it wasn't meant to be I guess.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:58 pmSung done hiring for 2022 and 2023, and has hired at least one for 2024.
Let's Talk 9th Circuit! Forum
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
I think Bade is much closer to Forrest than to Bybee/Smith/Clifton/Miller. She may even be to the right of Forrest. But otherwise this is a pretty accurate arrayAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:52 pmForrest is somewhere to the right of Bybee/Smith/Clifton/Miller/Bade and somewhere to the left of Callahan/Ikuta/Nelson/Lee/Bumatay/VanDyke. I have no idea how open she is to more liberal clerks or what she is like as a boss.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:12 pmWould Forrest be part of that moderate Republican group as well, or is she more conservative/not open to liberal clerks?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:52 pmI would put Lee in the exact same bucket as Ikuta - he is very conservative, but he is a great boss and has a long track record of working productively with younger lawyers who are much more liberal than he is. I think the concern is not whether he could get along with a "very liberal" clerk, but whether that clerk could get along with him.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:54 pmTbh I don't think anyone who knows anything about CA9 would put Miller and M. Smith, who don't even really hire Fed Soc students, on this list. Ikuta hires plenty of liberals as well and is a beloved boss, though she's quite conservative, so if by "very liberal" you mean unwilling to work with conservatives, I would avoid. Bybee also hires liberals and is significantly less conservative than you would expect.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:00 pmYMMV, but I would avoid Bea, Smith, Ikuta, Bumatay, VanDyke, Collins, Miller, Nelson. However, most will not interview you if you're obviously a liberal anyway, so I wouldn't worry.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:40 amAre there any republican appointed judges on the Ninth that aren't too conservative? Any judges a very liberal applicant may want to avoid?
Of the Republican-appointed judges on the Ninth, I would call Bybee, Milan Smith, Clifton, Miller, and Bade moderates who no liberal should have a problem clerking for. (In a similar vein, I would say that McKeown, Gould, and Owens are the most centrist/moderate of the Democratic-appointed judges, with Graber and Hurwitz just a step further to the left but still fairly moderate. There's also Tallman, who is a pretty normal conservative even though he was technically a Clinton appointee.) Bennett has a pretty orthodox conservative judicial philosophy but is otherwise quite moderate and perhaps even liberal on some issues.
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Now that we are on the topic, would anyone with knowledge of the court want to give a spectrum of all of the CA9 judges?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:43 pmI think Bade is much closer to Forrest than to Bybee/Smith/Clifton/Miller. She may even be to the right of Forrest. But otherwise this is a pretty accurate arrayAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:52 pmForrest is somewhere to the right of Bybee/Smith/Clifton/Miller/Bade and somewhere to the left of Callahan/Ikuta/Nelson/Lee/Bumatay/VanDyke. I have no idea how open she is to more liberal clerks or what she is like as a boss.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:12 pmWould Forrest be part of that moderate Republican group as well, or is she more conservative/not open to liberal clerks?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:52 pmI would put Lee in the exact same bucket as Ikuta - he is very conservative, but he is a great boss and has a long track record of working productively with younger lawyers who are much more liberal than he is. I think the concern is not whether he could get along with a "very liberal" clerk, but whether that clerk could get along with him.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:54 pmTbh I don't think anyone who knows anything about CA9 would put Miller and M. Smith, who don't even really hire Fed Soc students, on this list. Ikuta hires plenty of liberals as well and is a beloved boss, though she's quite conservative, so if by "very liberal" you mean unwilling to work with conservatives, I would avoid. Bybee also hires liberals and is significantly less conservative than you would expect.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:00 pmYMMV, but I would avoid Bea, Smith, Ikuta, Bumatay, VanDyke, Collins, Miller, Nelson. However, most will not interview you if you're obviously a liberal anyway, so I wouldn't worry.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:40 amAre there any republican appointed judges on the Ninth that aren't too conservative? Any judges a very liberal applicant may want to avoid?
Of the Republican-appointed judges on the Ninth, I would call Bybee, Milan Smith, Clifton, Miller, and Bade moderates who no liberal should have a problem clerking for. (In a similar vein, I would say that McKeown, Gould, and Owens are the most centrist/moderate of the Democratic-appointed judges, with Graber and Hurwitz just a step further to the left but still fairly moderate. There's also Tallman, who is a pretty normal conservative even though he was technically a Clinton appointee.) Bennett has a pretty orthodox conservative judicial philosophy but is otherwise quite moderate and perhaps even liberal on some issues.
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
I would put them in roughly these buckets (excluding the inactive judges and the ones who are 100 years old):
Liberal: Murguia, Sidney Thomas, Wardlaw, Christen, Watford, Friedland, Paez, Fletcher, Tashima, Berzon, Hawkins, Dorothy Nelson (and presumably Holly Thomas, Sanchez, and Sung)
Liberal-ish to Moderate: Graber, Hurwitz, Nguyen, Owens, Gould, Silverman, McKeown, Rawlinson, Miller, Clifton, Milan Smith, Bybee (and presumably Koh)
Originalist/Textualist But Otherwise Very Moderate: Bennett
Pretty Conservative: Bade, Forrest, Bress, Bea, Randy Smith, Kleinfeld, Tallman, Fernandez
Very Conservative: Wallace, O'Scannlain, Callahan, Ikuta, Ryan Nelson, Collins, Lee, Bumatay, VanDyke
There are some edge cases here but I think this is a pretty accurate taxonomy. I won't endeavor to make finer-grained distinctions except to say that Paez and Berzon are probably the most liberal (and are both pretty results-oriented) and that Nelson and VanDyke are probably the most conservative (and also pretty results-oriented).
Liberal: Murguia, Sidney Thomas, Wardlaw, Christen, Watford, Friedland, Paez, Fletcher, Tashima, Berzon, Hawkins, Dorothy Nelson (and presumably Holly Thomas, Sanchez, and Sung)
Liberal-ish to Moderate: Graber, Hurwitz, Nguyen, Owens, Gould, Silverman, McKeown, Rawlinson, Miller, Clifton, Milan Smith, Bybee (and presumably Koh)
Originalist/Textualist But Otherwise Very Moderate: Bennett
Pretty Conservative: Bade, Forrest, Bress, Bea, Randy Smith, Kleinfeld, Tallman, Fernandez
Very Conservative: Wallace, O'Scannlain, Callahan, Ikuta, Ryan Nelson, Collins, Lee, Bumatay, VanDyke
There are some edge cases here but I think this is a pretty accurate taxonomy. I won't endeavor to make finer-grained distinctions except to say that Paez and Berzon are probably the most liberal (and are both pretty results-oriented) and that Nelson and VanDyke are probably the most conservative (and also pretty results-oriented).
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Miller has had some pretty conservative opinions from what I can recall - he just apparently has an insanely high standard (2nd Circuit-esque) for when en bancs should be permitted.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 pmI would put them in roughly these buckets (excluding the inactive judges and the ones who are 100 years old):
Liberal: Murguia, Sidney Thomas, Wardlaw, Christen, Watford, Friedland, Paez, Fletcher, Tashima, Berzon, Hawkins, Dorothy Nelson (and presumably Holly Thomas, Sanchez, and Sung)
Liberal-ish to Moderate: Graber, Hurwitz, Nguyen, Owens, Gould, Silverman, McKeown, Rawlinson, Miller, Clifton, Milan Smith, Bybee (and presumably Koh)
Originalist/Textualist But Otherwise Very Moderate: Bennett
Pretty Conservative: Bade, Forrest, Bress, Bea, Randy Smith, Kleinfeld, Tallman, Fernandez
Very Conservative: Wallace, O'Scannlain, Callahan, Ikuta, Ryan Nelson, Collins, Lee, Bumatay, VanDyke
There are some edge cases here but I think this is a pretty accurate taxonomy. I won't endeavor to make finer-grained distinctions except to say that Paez and Berzon are probably the most liberal (and are both pretty results-oriented) and that Nelson and VanDyke are probably the most conservative (and also pretty results-oriented).
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Thanks! Was hoping to apply for 2023-24, but just accepted with another COA judge for that term so it's all good. Seems like a great clerkship for anybody interested in PI and especially labor law, and Portland would be a great place to spend a year.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:46 pmDon't worry. This is wrong. What the poster is likely referring to is that she hired SOME people for 2024. Does not mean that she is full for 2023. She is full for 2022 though.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:14 pmOh wow already. What a bummer - would've loved to just apply to the only former labor lawyer on the bench (other than Berzon of course). Yeah, she made an OSCAR account and even seemed to have updated her "Additional Information" section recently. Oh well, it wasn't meant to be I guess.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:58 pmSung done hiring for 2022 and 2023, and has hired at least one for 2024.
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Agree with a lot of but not all of this. Bennett is definitely in one of the conservative groups, as is Bybee notwithstanding his recent 2A opinion. Fletcher is definitely in the running with Berzon and Paez for most liberal. I'd be shocked if Koh doesn't soon make it clear that she's in the very liberal group as well. I'd redefine the true moderate group as Owens, Gould, Clifton, Milan Smith, and Miller; the rest I'd classify as moderate liberals. I wouldn't argue with Collins in the very conservative category, but he's more of a libertarian.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 pmI would put them in roughly these buckets (excluding the inactive judges and the ones who are 100 years old):
Liberal: Murguia, Sidney Thomas, Wardlaw, Christen, Watford, Friedland, Paez, Fletcher, Tashima, Berzon, Hawkins, Dorothy Nelson (and presumably Holly Thomas, Sanchez, and Sung)
Liberal-ish to Moderate: Graber, Hurwitz, Nguyen, Owens, Gould, Silverman, McKeown, Rawlinson, Miller, Clifton, Milan Smith, Bybee (and presumably Koh)
Originalist/Textualist But Otherwise Very Moderate: Bennett
Pretty Conservative: Bade, Forrest, Bress, Bea, Randy Smith, Kleinfeld, Tallman, Fernandez
Very Conservative: Wallace, O'Scannlain, Callahan, Ikuta, Ryan Nelson, Collins, Lee, Bumatay, VanDyke
There are some edge cases here but I think this is a pretty accurate taxonomy. I won't endeavor to make finer-grained distinctions except to say that Paez and Berzon are probably the most liberal (and are both pretty results-oriented) and that Nelson and VanDyke are probably the most conservative (and also pretty results-oriented).
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
I have reason to doubt that Koh will be in the "very liberal" group based on my experience with her as a district court judge, but I would certainly put her in the moderate liberal group if we are splitting the second group up along the lines you describe. I think I agree with everything else you say, although I would definitely put Bennett and Bybee toward the left of the conservative bloc.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:14 pmAgree with a lot of but not all of this. Bennett is definitely in one of the conservative groups, as is Bybee notwithstanding his recent 2A opinion. Fletcher is definitely in the running with Berzon and Paez for most liberal. I'd be shocked if Koh doesn't soon make it clear that she's in the very liberal group as well. I'd redefine the true moderate group as Owens, Gould, Clifton, Milan Smith, and Miller; the rest I'd classify as moderate liberals. I wouldn't argue with Collins in the very conservative category, but he's more of a libertarian.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 pmI would put them in roughly these buckets (excluding the inactive judges and the ones who are 100 years old):
Liberal: Murguia, Sidney Thomas, Wardlaw, Christen, Watford, Friedland, Paez, Fletcher, Tashima, Berzon, Hawkins, Dorothy Nelson (and presumably Holly Thomas, Sanchez, and Sung)
Liberal-ish to Moderate: Graber, Hurwitz, Nguyen, Owens, Gould, Silverman, McKeown, Rawlinson, Miller, Clifton, Milan Smith, Bybee (and presumably Koh)
Originalist/Textualist But Otherwise Very Moderate: Bennett
Pretty Conservative: Bade, Forrest, Bress, Bea, Randy Smith, Kleinfeld, Tallman, Fernandez
Very Conservative: Wallace, O'Scannlain, Callahan, Ikuta, Ryan Nelson, Collins, Lee, Bumatay, VanDyke
There are some edge cases here but I think this is a pretty accurate taxonomy. I won't endeavor to make finer-grained distinctions except to say that Paez and Berzon are probably the most liberal (and are both pretty results-oriented) and that Nelson and VanDyke are probably the most conservative (and also pretty results-oriented).
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Not sure exactly how we are ranking folks but I know for a fact that Bade has hired some liberal clerks. From what I’ve heard from people in the building she’s not an ideologue.
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
While I have a very different ideology from Judge Bade (I am a liberal), I (and my co-clerk and judge) got to spend a good amount of time with her during a week of oral arguments, and I think I'd have had no issue working with her. She's very kind and personable. It's hard not to like her on a personal level.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:44 pmNot sure exactly how we are ranking folks but I know for a fact that Bade has hired some liberal clerks. From what I’ve heard from people in the building she’s not an ideologue.
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Anybody hear from Rawlinson yet re: interviews?
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Judge Thomas posted on OSCAR and just removed it after one day. It was going to be open until 2/11. Any insight?
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Probably some kind of error--it is up again as of this morningAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:56 pmJudge Thomas posted on OSCAR and just removed it after one day. It was going to be open until 2/11. Any insight?
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
It is not showing up for me…
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
If you’re referring to H. Thomas, she’s full for 2022-23
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
I assumed they were referring to Sidney ThomasAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:23 amIf you’re referring to H. Thomas, she’s full for 2022-23
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Any news on Judge Forrest's hiring for 2022-23?
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Looks like Sung just posted for 2023. To the anon who posted this, do you know anything about her process or what she's like to work for? Feel free to message me if easier.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:46 pmDon't worry. This is wrong. What the poster is likely referring to is that she hired SOME people for 2024. Does not mean that she is full for 2023. She is full for 2022 though.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:14 pmOh wow already. What a bummer - would've loved to just apply to the only former labor lawyer on the bench (other than Berzon of course). Yeah, she made an OSCAR account and even seemed to have updated her "Additional Information" section recently. Oh well, it wasn't meant to be I guess.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:58 pmSung done hiring for 2022 and 2023, and has hired at least one for 2024.
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Interviews for 2023 went out rolling over Jan, and I know some offers went out. She's likely hired out for 2023 by now.
Edit: Sorry, just realized you said 2022. She's been filled for 2022 for a while.
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
have interviews for sung 23-24 gone out?
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Anon - does this mean Sung has already sent out interview requests for 23-24?
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
I was the one who asked about interviews, someone else said "nvm"
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Agree with this too. Bybee is a conservative with moderate streaks, not the other way around. Bennett has quirks but normally fits right in with the "pretty conservative" group. I would also flip Callahan and Bea on the original list; Callahan is a pretty standard Republican judge while Bea sees himself as a little more of a "warrior for liberty" (his words, not mine).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:14 pmAgree with a lot of but not all of this. Bennett is definitely in one of the conservative groups, as is Bybee notwithstanding his recent 2A opinion. Fletcher is definitely in the running with Berzon and Paez for most liberal. I'd be shocked if Koh doesn't soon make it clear that she's in the very liberal group as well. I'd redefine the true moderate group as Owens, Gould, Clifton, Milan Smith, and Miller; the rest I'd classify as moderate liberals. I wouldn't argue with Collins in the very conservative category, but he's more of a libertarian.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 pmI would put them in roughly these buckets (excluding the inactive judges and the ones who are 100 years old):
Liberal: Murguia, Sidney Thomas, Wardlaw, Christen, Watford, Friedland, Paez, Fletcher, Tashima, Berzon, Hawkins, Dorothy Nelson (and presumably Holly Thomas, Sanchez, and Sung)
Liberal-ish to Moderate: Graber, Hurwitz, Nguyen, Owens, Gould, Silverman, McKeown, Rawlinson, Miller, Clifton, Milan Smith, Bybee (and presumably Koh)
Originalist/Textualist But Otherwise Very Moderate: Bennett
Pretty Conservative: Bade, Forrest, Bress, Bea, Randy Smith, Kleinfeld, Tallman, Fernandez
Very Conservative: Wallace, O'Scannlain, Callahan, Ikuta, Ryan Nelson, Collins, Lee, Bumatay, VanDyke
There are some edge cases here but I think this is a pretty accurate taxonomy. I won't endeavor to make finer-grained distinctions except to say that Paez and Berzon are probably the most liberal (and are both pretty results-oriented) and that Nelson and VanDyke are probably the most conservative (and also pretty results-oriented).
Smith, Miller, Clifton, Owens, Rawlinson, and maybe Graber are the true moderates. With the current 16-13 split, Owens/Rawlinson/Miller basically control what goes en banc.
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Re: Let's Talk 9th Circuit!
Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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