Let's Talk 9th Circuit! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Can someone tell Richard R. Clifton that including the sentences "There are no fixed requirements" and "An applicant without a very strong law school academic record won’t be hired" both in his OSCAR posting is an oxymoron.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have insight on what working for J. Clifford Wallace is like? He has a spot open for 2022 and it looks like he extended the application period for his 2023 applications.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

Met Bumatay early this past school year. Seems really nice--debating shooting an application his way. I assume he's starting hiring for 2024-2025 about now? (Also, anyone know where Bress/VanDyke are with hiring and what they're looking for besides grades/FedSoc)

Edit: Also I met a Bumatay extern recently who just had glowing things to say about him, so that's always a good sign

[Anonymous User]

Bress is very very picky on grades—aiming to replace Wilkinson as the guy who gets the UVA #1 every year. VanDyke seems to care about regional ties and isn’t nearly as grade-selective.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

Met Bumatay early this past school year. Seems really nice--debating shooting an application his way. I assume he's starting hiring for 2024-2025 about now? (Also, anyone know where Bress/VanDyke are with hiring and what they're looking for besides grades/FedSoc)

Edit: Also I met a Bumatay extern recently who just had glowing things to say about him, so that's always a good sign

I believe he is hiring now, yes. To anyone considering applying, please do. He's the best.

[Anonymous User]

Bress is very very picky on grades—aiming to replace Wilkinson as the guy who gets the UVA #1 every year. VanDyke seems to care about regional ties and isn’t nearly as grade-selective.

When you say regional, do you mean Nevada? Montana? Mountain West more generally?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

Met Bumatay early this past school year. Seems really nice--debating shooting an application his way. I assume he's starting hiring for 2024-2025 about now? (Also, anyone know where Bress/VanDyke are with hiring and what they're looking for besides grades/FedSoc)

Edit: Also I met a Bumatay extern recently who just had glowing things to say about him, so that's always a good sign

VanDyke wants ideological conservatives and is willing to dip a bit lower in the grades/school pool to find them (I don't want to exaggerate that, he still hires people who did well at good schools, but he's not as "top 5% from the T14" driven as much of CA9 is). I suspect he's competing with judges like Ho on the 5th and maybe a few other Trump appointees who also follow this model. Bea is kind of similar in that he is also looking for committed conservatives but I get the sense that he is more stringent on grades.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

Met Bumatay early this past school year. Seems really nice--debating shooting an application his way. I assume he's starting hiring for 2024-2025 about now? (Also, anyone know where Bress/VanDyke are with hiring and what they're looking for besides grades/FedSoc)

Edit: Also I met a Bumatay extern recently who just had glowing things to say about him, so that's always a good sign

VanDyke wants ideological conservatives and is willing to dip a bit lower in the grades/school pool to find them (I don't want to exaggerate that, he still hires people who did well at good schools, but he's not as "top 5% from the T14" driven as much of CA9 is). I suspect he's competing with judges like Ho on the 5th and maybe a few other Trump appointees who also follow this model. Bea is kind of similar in that he is also looking for committed conservatives but I get the sense that he is more stringent on grades.

If anything, Van Dyke seems to dip lower than Ho. I get the sense Ho sees himself as a future Jerry Smith.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

Met Bumatay early this past school year. Seems really nice--debating shooting an application his way. I assume he's starting hiring for 2024-2025 about now? (Also, anyone know where Bress/VanDyke are with hiring and what they're looking for besides grades/FedSoc)

Edit: Also I met a Bumatay extern recently who just had glowing things to say about him, so that's always a good sign

VanDyke wants ideological conservatives and is willing to dip a bit lower in the grades/school pool to find them (I don't want to exaggerate that, he still hires people who did well at good schools, but he's not as "top 5% from the T14" driven as much of CA9 is). I suspect he's competing with judges like Ho on the 5th and maybe a few other Trump appointees who also follow this model. Bea is kind of similar in that he is also looking for committed conservatives but I get the sense that he is more stringent on grades.

Want to disagree with the Bea comparison. Bea is conservative, as are many of his clerks, but he regularly hires liberal clerks that are non-ideological enough to disagree with him but still get along well in chambers

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

Met Bumatay early this past school year. Seems really nice--debating shooting an application his way. I assume he's starting hiring for 2024-2025 about now? (Also, anyone know where Bress/VanDyke are with hiring and what they're looking for besides grades/FedSoc)

Edit: Also I met a Bumatay extern recently who just had glowing things to say about him, so that's always a good sign

VanDyke wants ideological conservatives and is willing to dip a bit lower in the grades/school pool to find them (I don't want to exaggerate that, he still hires people who did well at good schools, but he's not as "top 5% from the T14" driven as much of CA9 is). I suspect he's competing with judges like Ho on the 5th and maybe a few other Trump appointees who also follow this model. Bea is kind of similar in that he is also looking for committed conservatives but I get the sense that he is more stringent on grades.

If anything, Van Dyke seems to dip lower than Ho. I get the sense Ho sees himself as a future Jerry Smith.

Fair. Just distinguishing him from Oldham, who's cut from a similar cloth politically but has already fed 2 clerks and seems to be looking to feed regularly. Bress and maybe Collins are likely to be the new feeders from the Trump appointees on the 9th.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

Did you intend to exclude Lee from this list? Based on my experience with him (which is why I am posting anonymously), I would be shocked if he and his clerks were not also busy, happy, and well-adjusted.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone actually worked for Bumatay directly or heard from those who have?

Stayed with a friend who was clerking for him a couple years ago. His chambers are really nice, not in the courthouse. Clerks had their own offices with amazing views of the city. Atmosphere looked very casual, though this was during COVID and I was there after hours.

Saw Bumatay hanging out with his clerks in DC last year. Good camaraderie. He's very young.

In general, the CA9 clerks in San Diego (McKeown/Owens/Bumatay) seem busy but happy and well-adjusted. Can't speak for Wallace--in theory he's been sitting there since before the others were born

Did you intend to exclude Lee from this list? Based on my experience with him (which is why I am posting anonymously), I would be shocked if he and his clerks were not also busy, happy, and well-adjusted.

Oops, I thought Lee was in L.A.! I haven't known any of his clerks but I share your sentiments based on my limited interactions with him!

[Anonymous User]

Any news from Murguia?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have information on hiring practices of Judges Rawlinson or Bybee? Hard to find this info online but I was thinking of submitting paper apps to chambers for 2024-25.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have information on hiring practices of Judges Rawlinson or Bybee? Hard to find this info online but I was thinking of submitting paper apps to chambers for 2024-25.

Afaik Bybee follows the normal process and hires the sorts of traditionally-credentialed people you'd expect a former OLC head to hire. I wouldn't be surprised if he's also a BYU homer, BYU judges usually are, but idk for sure. No idea on Rawlinson.

[Anonymous User]

Is Rawlinson done hiring for 2023?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have information on hiring practices of Judges Rawlinson or Bybee? Hard to find this info online but I was thinking of submitting paper apps to chambers for 2024-25.

Afaik Bybee follows the normal process and hires the sorts of traditionally-credentialed people you'd expect a former OLC head to hire. I wouldn't be surprised if he's also a BYU homer, BYU judges usually are, but idk for sure. No idea on Rawlinson.

Unless his procedures have changed recently, Judge Bybee starts hiring about a year and a half out, but I also think he hires on the plan. So he'll generally interview 3Ls in March and rising 3Ls (i.e. have just completed their 2L year) on OSCAR. I wouldn't be surprised if he considered interviewing an especially compelling or connected candidate off-plan, but I'm guessing an application sent now for 2024-25 would not be looked at for a while if it is not misplaced entirely.

As far as credentials go, I wouldn't say there's anything especially notable about what he looks for: good grades at T14s and tippy-top grades from T50 schools (plus UNLV). He hires from BYU once every few years--he isn't someone like, say, Judge R. Nelson who hires a BYU grad every term. He likes folks who have clerked before for D. Ct. or SSCs but I think he rarely hires someone who is more than a year or two outside of law school.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have information on hiring practices of Judges Rawlinson or Bybee? Hard to find this info online but I was thinking of submitting paper apps to chambers for 2024-25.

Afaik Bybee follows the normal process and hires the sorts of traditionally-credentialed people you'd expect a former OLC head to hire. I wouldn't be surprised if he's also a BYU homer, BYU judges usually are, but idk for sure. No idea on Rawlinson.

Unless his procedures have changed recently, Judge Bybee starts hiring about a year and a half out, but I also think he hires on the plan. So he'll generally interview 3Ls in March and rising 3Ls (i.e. have just completed their 2L year) on OSCAR. I wouldn't be surprised if he considered interviewing an especially compelling or connected candidate off-plan, but I'm guessing an application sent now for 2024-25 would not be looked at for a while if it is not misplaced entirely.

As far as credentials go, I wouldn't say there's anything especially notable about what he looks for: good grades at T14s and tippy-top grades from T50 schools (plus UNLV). He hires from BYU once every few years--he isn't someone like, say, Judge R. Nelson who hires a BYU grad every term. He likes folks who have clerked before for D. Ct. or SSCs but I think he rarely hires someone who is more than a year or two outside of law school.

This is 1,000% right on Bybee. He also hires a fair number of non-BYU Mormon clerks, but those folks fit the same "good grades at T14" profile as the rest.

[Anonymous User]

Is it too early to discern trends in VanDyke's hiring practices yet? Will he take people who aren't FedSoc if they have otherwise strong resumes, or would he prefer less strong grades / lack of LR but FedSoc?

[Anonymous User]

Is it too early to discern trends in VanDyke's hiring practices yet? Will he take people who aren't FedSoc if they have otherwise strong resumes, or would he prefer less strong grades / lack of LR but FedSoc?

I don’t think he’s hired a single non-Fedsoc clerk. A lot of splits with district court judges, and some preference for students with ties to the West, but he seems to have weakened on that.

[Anonymous User]

Is it too early to discern trends in VanDyke's hiring practices yet? Will he take people who aren't FedSoc if they have otherwise strong resumes, or would he prefer less strong grades / lack of LR but FedSoc?

I don’t think he’s hired a single non-Fedsoc clerk. A lot of splits with district court judges, and some preference for students with ties to the West, but he seems to have weakened on that.

Also please do not clerk for VanDyke.

[Anonymous User]

Is it too early to discern trends in VanDyke's hiring practices yet? Will he take people who aren't FedSoc if they have otherwise strong resumes, or would he prefer less strong grades / lack of LR but FedSoc?

I don’t think he’s hired a single non-Fedsoc clerk. A lot of splits with district court judges, and some preference for students with ties to the West, but he seems to have weakened on that.

Also please do not clerk for VanDyke.

what makes you say this

[Anonymous User]

Is it too early to discern trends in VanDyke's hiring practices yet? Will he take people who aren't FedSoc if they have otherwise strong resumes, or would he prefer less strong grades / lack of LR but FedSoc?

I don’t think he’s hired a single non-Fedsoc clerk. A lot of splits with district court judges, and some preference for students with ties to the West, but he seems to have weakened on that.

Also please do not clerk for VanDyke.

what makes you say this

Before another thread gets sidetracked, there are about 6 pages of "the best and worst judges to clerk for" thread dedicated to this topic, which basically culminated in "he's really conservative and tells dad jokes."

For the record, I probably would not clerk for VanDyke unless I was conservative and dedicated to the conservative legal movement.

[Anonymous User]

Is it too early to discern trends in VanDyke's hiring practices yet? Will he take people who aren't FedSoc if they have otherwise strong resumes, or would he prefer less strong grades / lack of LR but FedSoc?

I don’t think he’s hired a single non-Fedsoc clerk. A lot of splits with district court judges, and some preference for students with ties to the West, but he seems to have weakened on that.

Also please do not clerk for VanDyke.

what makes you say this

Before another thread gets sidetracked, there are about 6 pages of "the best and worst judges to clerk for" thread dedicated to this topic, which basically culminated in "he's really conservative and tells dad jokes."

For the record, I probably would not clerk for VanDyke unless I was conservative and dedicated to the conservative legal movement.

The discussion did NOT boil down to him being conservative and telling dad jokes. A candidate should think very seriously about what is publicly known about him before applying. I would commend anyone who wants to clerk for Van Dyke to several of his recent opinions that have garnered mainstream press attention, and encourage them to decide if they want to spend their career flinching every time their former boss has released a new zinger. It isn't unreasonable to think his reputation, with time and the emboldening nature of life tenure, could become an albatross around your neck. This is a very distinct situation from your average hyper-conservative, but cautious and lower-case 'c' conservative, judge.

For what it's worth, I say this as a conservative clerk for a conservative judge who is supportive of people who want to apply to clerk for same. Van Dyke is simply not the usual case.