Let's Talk 3rd Circuit! Forum

[Anonymous User]

With the understanding the position was posted today, has anyone heard anything yet re Judge Chung?

I have not. But I'm not well connected enough to know how quickly she's moving through the process either.

[Anonymous User]

With the understanding the position was posted today, has anyone heard anything yet re Judge Chung?

I have not. But I'm not well connected enough to know how quickly she's moving through the process either.

If I were only accepting applications for one week, I'd just wait until I had them all. It's not like there isn't plenty else to do during the transition.

[Anonymous User]

So … any news on Chung now haha?

[Anonymous User]

She’s hired at least one clerk for immediate start and is looking for more to my knowledge

[Anonymous User]

Any sense of how competitive the Philly judges are? I’m particularly interested in Krause. What kind of applicants is she going for these days?

[Anonymous User]

Any sense of how competitive the Philly judges are? I’m particularly interested in Krause. What kind of applicants is she going for these days?

I do not recommend clerking for Judge Krause. Your experience will not be pleasant and I urge you to look elsewhere.

[Anonymous User]

Does Shwartz hire straight out (e.g. 2L's on plan) or does she only hire people who have graduated. I know she prefers clerks to have work experience

[Anonymous User]

Did you clerk for her, or your recommendation is from what you’ve heard? Just curious. Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

Did you clerk for her, or your recommendation is from what you’ve heard? Just curious. Thank you!

I'm not the person you're replying to but apparently she is just like a very intense unforgiving clerkship. Wouldn't say it is like unbearable, but it feels like the type of thing you would only really accept from a feeder. If you can get a Krause clerkship, you can probably get a clerkship from another third circuit judge whose clerkship is more chill.

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

Yeah, Bibas is very weird... Not necessarily a bad thing for some people who really like his idiosyncracies, but I personally would not be able to handle it. (Although Bibas would not have hired me anyways so not like I actually had to make this decision). Anyways if you're interested in Bibas I hear he puts a very, very high premium on grades and is very unforgiving on that front even relative to other feeders besides maybe Srinivasan.

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

Yeah, Bibas is very weird... Not necessarily a bad thing for some people who really like his idiosyncracies, but I personally would not be able to handle it. (Although Bibas would not have hired me anyways so not like I actually had to make this decision). Anyways if you're interested in Bibas I hear he puts a very, very high premium on grades and is very unforgiving on that front even relative to other feeders besides maybe Srinivasan.

I would happily work for Bibas, and from everything I’ve heard he has a heart of gold, but he is one of the most socially uncomfortable people I have ever met. You can totally tell that he was a child prodigy who went to college at 15.

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

Yeah, Bibas is very weird... Not necessarily a bad thing for some people who really like his idiosyncracies, but I personally would not be able to handle it. (Although Bibas would not have hired me anyways so not like I actually had to make this decision). Anyways if you're interested in Bibas I hear he puts a very, very high premium on grades and is very unforgiving on that front even relative to other feeders besides maybe Srinivasan.

I would happily work for Bibas, and from everything I’ve heard he has a heart of gold, but he is one of the most socially uncomfortable people I have ever met. You can totally tell that he was a child prodigy who went to college at 15.

I am a liberal who would also happily clerk for Bibas, but would have Krause near the bottom of my list. Both clerkships are intense and both judges are in the 3d Cir. and that's where the similarities end. Their reputations, relationships with their clerks, and approach to judging (this has nothing to do with left-right) are dissimilar. And on each, I would rather be the Bibas clerk.

TBH I don't know why we are comparing the twom

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

Isn’t Scirica also very competitive?

[Anonymous User]

Any movement for Shwartz yet? Is she still grade sensitive? Interested in her but not sure I have a chance.

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

Isn’t Scirica also very competitive?

Scirica and Krause are not really in the same level of competitiveness as Bibas, but both still generally require very strong grades. Scirica and Bibas also frequently take students who were in their classes at Penn.

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

Isn’t Scirica also very competitive?

Scirica and Krause are not really in the same level of competitiveness as Bibas, but both still generally require very strong grades. Scirica and Bibas also frequently take students who were in their classes at Penn.

Scirica was very competitive about a decade ago from my understanding. I would still consider him a good clerkship, but my understanding is he hires basically solely on personal connections and recs at this point and is very relaxed. I.e., he's not interviewing a bunch of people, he's more like sitting back and waiting for X professor to call and rec him or just straight up hiring someone he taught. In that respect, he is different than Krause who is more playing the field.

[Anonymous User]

Any sense of how competitive the Philly judges are? I’m particularly interested in Krause. What kind of applicants is she going for these days?

I do not recommend clerking for Judge Krause. Your experience will not be pleasant and I urge you to look elsewhere.

Just to offer another perspective, I think some of the negative Krause rhetoric is from her early time on the bench. Having spoken to Krause clerks in the current and recent three terms, they described her as a good boss who really cares about getting things correct, while also making sure her clerks have a good experience and go off to do really interesting things (Climenko Fellow right now, state SG offices, big law appellate shops in DC). She has high expectations, but from what I understand not to the point of creating an unpleasant environment. One example, the hours are much lower than they were in her first couple of years on the bench.

The clerks I spoke with all had top grades at top law schools (HYS/M/P). And lastly, I know faculty/DOJ/and other practicing lawyers think very highly of her work product. Take this for what you will, and it's not meant to diminish others who may have had less than a pleasant experience. I think she's a great option for CA3 and living/working in Philadelphia.

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

Yeah, Bibas is very weird... Not necessarily a bad thing for some people who really like his idiosyncracies, but I personally would not be able to handle it. (Although Bibas would not have hired me anyways so not like I actually had to make this decision). Anyways if you're interested in Bibas I hear he puts a very, very high premium on grades and is very unforgiving on that front even relative to other feeders besides maybe Srinivasan.

Why is Bibas weird? Do tell!

[Anonymous User]

Okay got it-that seems to track with some of the commentary from past years. Thank you!

I do still wonder, though, what her (and other Philly judges’) criteria is. To your point, if I can get one with her maybe I can with another. Just not sure how competitive these judges are nowadays!

Krause and Bibas are probably the most competitive of the Philly CA3 judges, and both are pretty tough clerkships. They're both very intense and Bibas is kind of a weirdo on an interpersonal level. I don't know much about Freeman because she's so new. But the other Philly judges are great. McKee and Restrepo are willing to dip on conventional indicia of prestige like grades/school if you have Philly ties and public interest commitment.

Yeah, Bibas is very weird... Not necessarily a bad thing for some people who really like his idiosyncracies, but I personally would not be able to handle it. (Although Bibas would not have hired me anyways so not like I actually had to make this decision). Anyways if you're interested in Bibas I hear he puts a very, very high premium on grades and is very unforgiving on that front even relative to other feeders besides maybe Srinivasan.

Why is Bibas weird? Do tell!

Not necessarily in a bad way, just like very quirky and intelligent. Best way I can describe it is big graduated high school at 14 energy. I don't know him personally, though, but I don't think I could handle a clerkship with him. I know some of his clerks who love that aspect of his behavior. Here, to give you an example I heard off hand that he had his clerks attend a class he took and take the exam for the class. Now the person I talked to loved doing that and they enjoyed taking a class with him. Me personally, though, I would feel annoyed and pressured to do that and would definitely not want to take a law school exam for fun.

[throwawayt14]

Not necessarily in a bad way, just like very quirky and intelligent. Best way I can describe it is big graduated high school at 14 energy. I don't know him personally, though, but I don't think I could handle a clerkship with him. I know some of his clerks who love that aspect of his behavior. Here, to give you an example I heard off hand that he had his clerks attend a class he took and take the exam for the class. Now the person I talked to loved doing that and they enjoyed taking a class with him. Me personally, though, I would feel annoyed and pressured to do that and would definitely not want to take a law school exam for fun.

If he hires students from the classes he teaches, this seems like a pretty good way to get a baseline for what he considers an acceptable score for a clerk.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks so much all for the helpful advice on Krause! (I’m the OP who asked that question). I really appreciate all of the perspectives shared.

[Anonymous User]

anyone know anything about Beetlestone in Philadelphia?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone heard anything good or bad about Wiegand? I saw she just posted.

Curious about this as well.