Let's talk 2nd Circuit! Forum

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:20 am
He has been interviewing over the last couple of days according to someone at my firm.
Heard any updates?

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:14 pm

Anyone know if Sullivan is all full? I heard he takes his time, but it's been a few weeks since he bumped/updated his post.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:14 pm
Anyone know if Sullivan is all full? I heard he takes his time, but it's been a few weeks since he bumped/updated his post.
Following up on this, any word on Sullivan?

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:52 pm

Anyone know if Lynch has started interviewing? OSCAR said sometime in February, and the posting expired on the 2nd.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:52 pm
Anyone know if Lynch has started interviewing? OSCAR said sometime in February, and the posting expired on the 2nd.
I would also be interested in this. Haven't heard anything

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:59 pm

Based anons of the 2nd Circuit -- Anyone have any word on Chin and whether he's extended interviews for 2021?

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:59 pm
Based anons of the 2nd Circuit -- Anyone have any word on Chin and whether he's extended interviews for 2021?
Been wondering this too! I'd imagine given the term and when the listing expired that he has, but holding out hope

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 am

Slightly off-topic of the actual judges--but as someone with no concept of NYC rent prices/living expenses I'm wondering, is it feasible to live anywhere close to the courthouse in Manhattan on a clerk's salary without a roommate?

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 am
Slightly off-topic of the actual judges--but as someone with no concept of NYC rent prices/living expenses I'm wondering, is it feasible to live anywhere close to the courthouse in Manhattan on a clerk's salary without a roommate?
Streeteasy is a great listings aggregator that both I and my biglaw coworkers used to find rentals in the City. I could never find anything within reasonable walking distance to the courthouse.

Anyway, a studio in Midtown East or the Village would run you $2,100 to $2,400 per month. That's $25,000 to $29,000 per year. If you're clerking straight out of law school, your salary is $90,000. If you have loans and go on IBR, that's 10% of your salary: $9,000. Taxes eat, say, $30,000. So $30,000 + $9,000 + $25,000 = $64,000.

Should be enough.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:25 pm

Any updates from Chin?

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:16 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 am
Slightly off-topic of the actual judges--but as someone with no concept of NYC rent prices/living expenses I'm wondering, is it feasible to live anywhere close to the courthouse in Manhattan on a clerk's salary without a roommate?
Streeteasy is a great listings aggregator that both I and my biglaw coworkers used to find rentals in the City. I could never find anything within reasonable walking distance to the courthouse.

Anyway, a studio in Midtown East or the Village would run you $2,100 to $2,400 per month. That's $25,000 to $29,000 per year. If you're clerking straight out of law school, your salary is $90,000. If you have loans and go on IBR, that's 10% of your salary: $9,000. Taxes eat, say, $30,000. So $30,000 + $9,000 + $25,000 = $64,000.

Should be enough.
This isn't accurate. If you're clerking straight out of law school, you start at the JSP-11, step 1 salary. In 2021, that's only $74,702 in NY/NJ/CT/PA. If you have one year of work experience, you start at JSP-12, step 1 ($89,537). Two years, JSP 13, step 1 ($106,471).Three or more, JSP 14, grade 1 ($125,817) - only one clerk in Chambers can be JSP 14.

Here's this year's salary table for NY/NJ/CT/PA: https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/ ... k_2021.pdf

Here's info on how salary works for law clerks: https://oscar.uscourts.gov/qualificatio ... y_benefits

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:05 pm
This isn't accurate. If you're clerking straight out of law school, you start at the JSP-11, step 1 salary. In 2021, that's only $74,702 in NY/NJ/CT/PA.
Yes, my mistake. But I imagine that if you're able to clerk on the Second Circuit, money is of no concern to you, so I feel silly for entertaining that question.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:10 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:05 pm
This isn't accurate. If you're clerking straight out of law school, you start at the JSP-11, step 1 salary. In 2021, that's only $74,702 in NY/NJ/CT/PA.
Yes, my mistake. But I imagine that if you're able to clerk on the Second Circuit, money is of no concern to you, so I feel silly for entertaining that question.
Plenty of people who aren’t wealthy clerk on CA2... such as myself (no family money, straight from law school, never lived anywhere nearly as expensive before)

Not OP but I’d appreciate any specific recs on neighborhoods and also time to start looking that people have. I hope the real estate market doesn’t recover too quickly :D

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:10 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:05 pm
This isn't accurate. If you're clerking straight out of law school, you start at the JSP-11, step 1 salary. In 2021, that's only $74,702 in NY/NJ/CT/PA.
Yes, my mistake. But I imagine that if you're able to clerk on the Second Circuit, money is of no concern to you, so I feel silly for entertaining that question.
Guess again haha, I'm going into this with massive student loan debt. Don't come from money, went to a law school that I barely got into, got next to nothing in scholarships, did unexpectedly well, going to Big Law which will help with that but couldn't pass up the opportunity to clerk first. But it is possible to live somewhere that's reasonably commutable to 40 Foley in Manhattan or (God forbid) Brooklyn on $74k I'd hope? Maybe in a studio? Or maybe I'll have to suck it up and find a roommate.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:10 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:05 pm
This isn't accurate. If you're clerking straight out of law school, you start at the JSP-11, step 1 salary. In 2021, that's only $74,702 in NY/NJ/CT/PA.
Yes, my mistake. But I imagine that if you're able to clerk on the Second Circuit, money is of no concern to you, so I feel silly for entertaining that question.

Not sure I get this. When I was clerking on the 2d Cir, my co-clerks and I were not wealthy, didn't have family money, and were saddled with loans.

Regarding housing, it is tougher to live alone. You'd have to be willing to spend around at least $1800 and more likely $2000+. Your best bet is to find studio further north, for instance, somewhere on the east side along the 4/5/6 train, which drops off at a stop right outside the courthouse. More affordable neighborhoods are Yorkville and parts of the Upper East Side, which are about ~15-20 min on the train to 40 Foley. Despite TV, UES is much more affordable than downtown.

My coclerks and I lived further away in Queens and Brooklyn (e.g. Crown Heights and Bushwick). You’ll get more bang for your buck there, but you’ll have a 30+ min commute. The parts of Brooklyn that are closest to the courthouse (e.g. Dumbo or Brooklyn Heights) are expensive.

If you’re coming later this year, though, there may still be many covid deals, since the rental market has tanked. Many landlords are offering ~two months free on a yearlong lease, so cheaper net effective rent.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:06 pm

Cronan’s first couple of classes both have doubles with Bress and Park. I don’t think it’s a Katzmann/Rakoff-type thing but he definitely hired via referrals from friendly COA judges.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:04 pm

Anyone know which COA judges are “off plan” judges (in the sense that they don’t reliably post openings on Oscar)?

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:04 pm
Anyone know which COA judges are “off plan” judges (in the sense that they don’t reliably post openings on Oscar)?
I think you're a bit confused about terminology, on/off plan has a limited correlation to who posts on OSCAR. The off-plan judges on CA2 are Menashi, sometimes Park, and maybe Bianco, Sullivan, or Raggi (those three have somewhat ambiguous postings).

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 20, 2021 5:14 pm

Does a 3.78 from CLS, secondary journal (Kent 2L, Stone 1L) have a shot at 2nd C if applying super broadly for like 2023/2024? Who are the judges to stay away from with v good but not perfect #s bc waste of time

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 20, 2021 5:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:14 pm
Does a 3.78 from CLS, secondary journal (Kent 2L, Stone 1L) have a shot at 2nd C if applying super broadly for like 2023/2024? Who are the judges to stay away from with v good but not perfect #s bc waste of time
District or Circuit? For Circuit and assuming your 2L Kent is from real classes, your grades are generally high enough for the Second Circuit and the only judges who you aren't competitive for are Livingston, Lohier, Katzmann/Rakoff. But you need to lean on professors to help get your application noticed. Look at the alumni list and do some linkedin sleuthing too.

There are more factors that would help your application get noticed: FedSoc, well-known recommenders, awards, etc.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 20, 2021 7:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:14 pm
Does a 3.78 from CLS, secondary journal (Kent 2L, Stone 1L) have a shot at 2nd C if applying super broadly for like 2023/2024? Who are the judges to stay away from with v good but not perfect #s bc waste of time
District or Circuit? For Circuit and assuming your 2L Kent is from real classes, your grades are generally high enough for the Second Circuit and the only judges who you aren't competitive for are Livingston, Lohier, Katzmann/Rakoff. But you need to lean on professors to help get your application noticed. Look at the alumni list and do some linkedin sleuthing too.

There are more factors that would help your application get noticed: FedSoc, well-known recommenders, awards, etc.
Thanks! Is SDNY/EDNY less competitive or about the same?

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 20, 2021 7:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 7:13 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:14 pm
Does a 3.78 from CLS, secondary journal (Kent 2L, Stone 1L) have a shot at 2nd C if applying super broadly for like 2023/2024? Who are the judges to stay away from with v good but not perfect #s bc waste of time
District or Circuit? For Circuit and assuming your 2L Kent is from real classes, your grades are generally high enough for the Second Circuit and the only judges who you aren't competitive for are Livingston, Lohier, Katzmann/Rakoff. But you need to lean on professors to help get your application noticed. Look at the alumni list and do some linkedin sleuthing too.

There are more factors that would help your application get noticed: FedSoc, well-known recommenders, awards, etc.
Thanks! Is SDNY/EDNY less competitive or about the same?
Judge dependent and some are more competitive than others, but there are so many that if you apply widely and lean on your recommenders, you should be a competitive applicant. But you really need to get meaningful support from your professors. EDNY/SDNY judges get flooded with OSCAR applications, and plenty of people have good grades.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu May 20, 2021 8:48 pm

You might as well apply but I'm not sure that you're competitive for Park, Sullivan, or Menashi without Fed Soc and/or LR. By "applying super broadly" I hope you're meaning you'll apply well beyond CA2 regardless--if you really want to clerk you should be applying basically everywhere.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 21, 2021 11:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:14 pm
Does a 3.78 from CLS, secondary journal (Kent 2L, Stone 1L) have a shot at 2nd C if applying super broadly for like 2023/2024? Who are the judges to stay away from with v good but not perfect #s bc waste of time
As a reference point, I had the same profile and I got one EDNY interview out of my CA2/SDNY/EDNY apps. However, I did not have profs call, which probably hurt my apps. Definitely work any connections you have.

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Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Post by Joachim2017 » Sat May 22, 2021 9:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:14 pm
Does a 3.78 from CLS, secondary journal (Kent 2L, Stone 1L) have a shot at 2nd C if applying super broadly for like 2023/2024? Who are the judges to stay away from with v good but not perfect #s bc waste of time
District or Circuit? For Circuit and assuming your 2L Kent is from real classes, your grades are generally high enough for the Second Circuit and the only judges who you aren't competitive for are Livingston, Lohier, Katzmann/Rakoff. But you need to lean on professors to help get your application noticed. Look at the alumni list and do some linkedin sleuthing too.

There are more factors that would help your application get noticed: FedSoc, well-known recommenders, awards, etc.
This is a little pessimistic especially with regard to Lohier. Yes, it's CA2 and it's super competitive, but he is not *quite* as picky as Livingston or Katzmann. I don't think it's a "waste of time" to send him an application at those numbers, though know that he tends to move a little more slowly, takes his time, and it can come down to timing with other judges. We're splitting hairs here, but there is a difference between Katzmann/Livingston, which is as feeder-level as CA2 gets, and Lohier.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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