Let's talk 5th Circuit! Forum

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:00 pm
Has anyone heard anything about Judge Costa interviews?
Heard thirdhand that Costa had at least started extending interviews.

lavarman84

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by lavarman84 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:21 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:49 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:50 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:05 pm
Though he is lovely, his interview is INTENSE--lasts all day...The clerks love their judge and so the interview is a marathon of tough (but very fair for a prepared candidate) questions.
That sounds terrifying. What kinds of questions are asked?

The questions are a lot of the things you would expect in a normal interview*. The difficulty comes from the fact that you have to be "on" for so long--it's mentally exhausting. Notice, though, that the clerks have a lot of discretion, so the specific questions change from year to year.

*E.g. If you could only have even or odd amendment, which would you have? Is paper money unconstitutional under an originalist reading of the constitution?
Are you joking about those being normal questions?

Those seem fairly typical for the FedSoc judges
Of all the very important issues, I'm glad FedSoc judges and clerks are concerned about paper money. Talk about priorities in the right place. :lol:

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:40 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:21 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:49 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:50 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:05 pm
Though he is lovely, his interview is INTENSE--lasts all day...The clerks love their judge and so the interview is a marathon of tough (but very fair for a prepared candidate) questions.
That sounds terrifying. What kinds of questions are asked?

The questions are a lot of the things you would expect in a normal interview*. The difficulty comes from the fact that you have to be "on" for so long--it's mentally exhausting. Notice, though, that the clerks have a lot of discretion, so the specific questions change from year to year.

*E.g. If you could only have even or odd amendment, which would you have? Is paper money unconstitutional under an originalist reading of the constitution?
Are you joking about those being normal questions?

Those seem fairly typical for the FedSoc judges
Of all the very important issues, I'm glad FedSoc judges and clerks are concerned about paper money. Talk about priorities in the right place. :lol:
It's to figure out if the applicant has any idea what originalism is and how to constitutionally interpret an issue they likely haven't thought of before - see how they think through the decision and defend it.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by lavarman84 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:40 pm
It's to figure out if the applicant has any idea what originalism is and how to constitutionally interpret an issue they likely haven't thought of before - see how they think through the decision and defend it.
I was half joking. I'm just saying that when I got the test, the interviewer (wasn't interviewing for a clerkship) asked much more significant questions. I feel like they can do better than paper money. :wink:

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Libya » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:50 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:05 pm
Though he is lovely, his interview is INTENSE--lasts all day...The clerks love their judge and so the interview is a marathon of tough (but very fair for a prepared candidate) questions.
That sounds terrifying. What kinds of questions are asked?

The questions are a lot of the things you would expect in a normal interview*. The difficulty comes from the fact that you have to be "on" for so long--it's mentally exhausting. Notice, though, that the clerks have a lot of discretion, so the specific questions change from year to year.

*E.g. If you could only have even or odd amendment, which would you have? Is paper money unconstitutional under an originalist reading of the constitution?
This is so dumb, although I can’t say I’m surprised

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by rhododactylos » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am

Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:33 am

rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am
Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.
Out of curiosity, are we expected to memorized all of Congress's enumerated powers by the interview, or are we allowed to bring a pocket Constitution?

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:33 am
rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am
Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.
Out of curiosity, are we expected to memorized all of Congress's enumerated powers by the interview, or are we allowed to bring a pocket Constitution?

You should know them pretty well already, but I was also given a copy of the relevant parts of the Constitution during my interviews.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:42 am

Libya wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:50 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:05 pm
Though he is lovely, his interview is INTENSE--lasts all day...The clerks love their judge and so the interview is a marathon of tough (but very fair for a prepared candidate) questions.
That sounds terrifying. What kinds of questions are asked?

The questions are a lot of the things you would expect in a normal interview*. The difficulty comes from the fact that you have to be "on" for so long--it's mentally exhausting. Notice, though, that the clerks have a lot of discretion, so the specific questions change from year to year.

*E.g. If you could only have even or odd amendment, which would you have? Is paper money unconstitutional under an originalist reading of the constitution?
This is so dumb, although I can’t say I’m surprised

Would you prefer we ask, "So what do you want to know about the clerkship" 500 times?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:45 pm
Has there been a lot of movement at the Texas district courts? Asking specifically about N.D. Tex. and E.D. Tex.
Loads of movement. Both Tyler judges are interviewing. Jordan is interviewing. Kacsmaryk is full. Starr has hired some. Fitzwater and Lynn and O'Connor are interviewing (he has hired at least one). Hendrix has hired some.

Get your apps in NOW.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by rhododactylos » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:45 am

Yeah, you should know the big constitutional powers generally but for a question like this I'd expect that the clerks would give you the text, or you'd be given a pocket constitution. We had a pocket constitution on the table for the portion of the interview where we asked conlaw questions.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:33 am
rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am
Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.
Out of curiosity, are we expected to memorized all of Congress's enumerated powers by the interview, or are we allowed to bring a pocket Constitution?
*Not previous poster
I can't tell if this is a joke but I will answer it seriously. I went through two interviews and both allowed me to grab a copy of the constitution. One told me to grab my copy of the constitution (presuming I had one on me), and in the other, I asked if I could have one (they printed it on the spot lol). I think actually looking at the text is a positive that shows you don't try to do everything off the cuff. Honestly, I would recommend bringing your own.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:52 am

rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:45 am
Yeah, you should know the big constitutional powers generally but for a question like this I'd expect that the clerks would give you the text, or you'd be given a pocket constitution. We had a pocket constitution on the table for the portion of the interview where we asked conlaw questions.
"Pocket constitution" anon. It wasn't a joke.

Thanks - I don't expect an interview with any FedSoc judges(due to my lower credentials and lack of political indications), but those questions actually sound kind of fun.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:48 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:33 am
rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am
Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.
Out of curiosity, are we expected to memorized all of Congress's enumerated powers by the interview, or are we allowed to bring a pocket Constitution?
*Not previous poster
I can't tell if this is a joke but I will answer it seriously. I went through two interviews and both allowed me to grab a copy of the constitution. One told me to grab my copy of the constitution (presuming I had one on me), and in the other, I asked if I could have one (they printed it on the spot lol). I think actually looking at the text is a positive that shows you don't try to do everything off the cuff. Honestly, I would recommend bringing your own.
I’ve done a good number of Fed Soc interviews and never gotten anything this gimmicky. Lots of questions on how you’d address a hard constitutional problem which gets at the same thing, but nothing requiring you to bring your own pocket constitution, which sounds absurd.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:52 am
rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:45 am
Yeah, you should know the big constitutional powers generally but for a question like this I'd expect that the clerks would give you the text, or you'd be given a pocket constitution. We had a pocket constitution on the table for the portion of the interview where we asked conlaw questions.
"Pocket constitution" anon. It wasn't a joke.

Thanks - I don't expect an interview with any FedSoc judges(due to my lower credentials and lack of political indications), but those questions actually sound kind of fun.

*Original poster of the questions here*

I was asked the money questions during a few different interviews (the other one as well--my favorite interview question ever). As to the paper money question, some interviewers gave me the constitutional text, the others just mentioned that the text used the word "coined." If there was a follow-up discussion on the Legal Tender Cases, the interviewers would quickly explain the relevant reasoning used in those cases.

Honestly, I loved those kinds of interview questions. They are pretty interesting to think through and occasionally led to interesting mini-debates. It was very much about how you think through an issue and how capable you are debating the issues--not about whether there is a right/wrong answer.

Interviewers, of course, also ask about more current/pressing issues (e.g. if I were interviewing this week, I would expect a lot of discussion surrounding the competition textualist models in the T7 decisions from Monday). But, the value of the type of question I included in my prior message is that they are less expected so you can see more of how the candidate reason on the spot/without having a rehearsed answer they think the interviewer would likely agree with.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:48 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:33 am
rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am
Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.
Out of curiosity, are we expected to memorized all of Congress's enumerated powers by the interview, or are we allowed to bring a pocket Constitution?
*Not previous poster
I can't tell if this is a joke but I will answer it seriously. I went through two interviews and both allowed me to grab a copy of the constitution. One told me to grab my copy of the constitution (presuming I had one on me), and in the other, I asked if I could have one (they printed it on the spot lol). I think actually looking at the text is a positive that shows you don't try to do everything off the cuff. Honestly, I would recommend bringing your own.
I’ve done a good number of Fed Soc interviews and never gotten anything this gimmicky. Lots of questions on how you’d address a hard constitutional problem which gets at the same thing, but nothing requiring you to bring your own pocket constitution, which sounds absurd.

During my interviews, when I got question like the paper money one it was after we'd already discussed how to address constitutional problems. It seemed like the question was trying to get to how committed I was to what I had just said, like to gauge where the outer limits of my professed commitments were.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by lavarman84 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:06 pm

rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am
Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.
I'm not remotely an expert on originalism (because I am not an originalist), but isn't the goal of modern originalism to determine the original public meaning? Wouldn't it be better to look at dictionaries from the time to see how the word was defined? I thought looking to the intent of the drafters was disfavored? I'm not trying to be a smart ass right now. That was my understanding of originalism, so I'm curious.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:14 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:06 pm
rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am
Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.
I'm not remotely an expert on originalism (because I am not an originalist), but isn't the goal of modern originalism to determine the original public meaning? Wouldn't it be better to look at dictionaries from the time to see how the word was defined? I thought looking to the intent of the drafters was disfavored? I'm not trying to be a smart ass right now. That was my understanding of originalism, so I'm curious.
I think that you could and should, reasonably use all of the highlighted examples plus dictionaries and maybe a corpus linguistics analysis when making an OPM analysis. Although OPM denies original intent as the sole guideline, the sources the poster you responded to mentions can be helpful evidence.

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Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:55 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:06 pm
rhododactylos wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am
Clerked for a FedSoc judge on another court. We asked a similar question too (not the same one). If you get one like this your ultimate position on the issue doesn't matter. We're looking for you to: (1) identify the issue, whether the verb "coin" in Article I means "to make coins" or something broader, like, "to establish an American currency; and (2) walk us through how you'd resolve this question (if you're an originalist, you'd look at how the term "coin" was used when Article I was drafted and might also talk about looking at the Federalist, the covention debates, etc.). If you give an answer that has nothing to do with Article I and the coining clause, you're not thinking about the issue the way the judge wants you to, and you're probably not a fit.
I'm not remotely an expert on originalism (because I am not an originalist), but isn't the goal of modern originalism to determine the original public meaning? Wouldn't it be better to look at dictionaries from the time to see how the word was defined? I thought looking to the intent of the drafters was disfavored? I'm not trying to be a smart ass right now. That was my understanding of originalism, so I'm curious.

A few thoughts:
  • There are multiple originalisms, so which sources you use depends on which sub-theory you subscribe to. However, you are correct that original public meaning is the predominant theory.
      Some people would use dictionaries, but texts which use words in context are usually preferred.
        Things like the Federalist and the debates aren't useful because they point to intent but because they are relevant to understanding legal original meaning (which is usually what is relevant).
          Generally, there is a lot of debate as to which sources are most useful. Some, like you, would likely reject those sources as getting only to be understanding of the Framers rather than the public. Others would say the Federalist Papers are relevant because they were public, but the debates are inappropriate. Some would use them along with many other texts (see arguments for corpus linguistics).
        Originalism today is much more complicated and internally-contested than many non-originalists realize, so there is a lot of debate regarding what methodologies best service the various sub-theories. That is part of the reason why a question as seemingly odd as whether paper money is unconstitutional is helpful--it forces the applicant to answer in a much more telling and nuanced way, rather than merely regurgitating what is essentally a bland slogan.

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        Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

        Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:56 pm

        Any intel on Smith? Still giving out interviews?

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        Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

        Post by lavarman84 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:54 pm

        Got it. Thanks for the explanation.

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        Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

        Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:37 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:44 am
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:45 pm
        Has there been a lot of movement at the Texas district courts? Asking specifically about N.D. Tex. and E.D. Tex.
        Loads of movement. Both Tyler judges are interviewing. Jordan is interviewing. Kacsmaryk is full. Starr has hired some. Fitzwater and Lynn and O'Connor are interviewing (he has hired at least one). Hendrix has hired some.

        Get your apps in NOW.
        How sure are you that Jordan has moved? I had heard the opposite.

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        Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

        Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:07 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:37 pm
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:44 am
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:45 pm
        Has there been a lot of movement at the Texas district courts? Asking specifically about N.D. Tex. and E.D. Tex.
        Loads of movement. Both Tyler judges are interviewing. Jordan is interviewing. Kacsmaryk is full. Starr has hired some. Fitzwater and Lynn and O'Connor are interviewing (he has hired at least one). Hendrix has hired some.

        Get your apps in NOW.
        How sure are you that Jordan has moved? I had heard the opposite.
        100% sure. Have a friend who had an interview earlier this year. I don't know what his hiring timeline is now or if my friend was an outlier.

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        Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

        Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:09 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:56 pm
        Any intel on Smith? Still giving out interviews?
        Not sure if he is still giving out interviews, but he has definitely been interviewing and moving with offers for some time now

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        Re: Let's talk 5th Circuit!

        Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:41 pm

        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:07 pm
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:37 pm
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:44 am
        Anonymous User wrote:
        Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:45 pm
        Has there been a lot of movement at the Texas district courts? Asking specifically about N.D. Tex. and E.D. Tex.
        Loads of movement. Both Tyler judges are interviewing. Jordan is interviewing. Kacsmaryk is full. Starr has hired some. Fitzwater and Lynn and O'Connor are interviewing (he has hired at least one). Hendrix has hired some.

        Get your apps in NOW.
        How sure are you that Jordan has moved? I had heard the opposite.
        100% sure. Have a friend who had an interview earlier this year. I don't know what his hiring timeline is now or if my friend was an outlier.
        To clarify, as Anon who said this. This is for 2021 starts (whereas some posts about circuit judges are referencing 2022 starts).

        Seriously? What are you waiting for?

        Now there's a charge.
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