Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

Judge Carlton W. Reeves on the SD of Mississippi is an amazing person and I 100% recommend applying esp. someone who is public interest oriented. I know at one point he didn't post positions on OSCAR because he wanted mailed applications from people who really sought him out--not sure if that's the case now.

Got to hear him speak earlier this year, and he still maintained that he wanted mailed applications.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think it's true that top students at top schools mostly go to 2/7/9 (it might be true for DC), especially for Fed Soc students. They choose judge by judge--Newsom and Stras are going to be more selective than Walker despite being nowhere near major coastal metros. Plus in 9 in particular there's going to be big differences in geographic desirability across judges, most aren't in LA/SF (actually very few are in SF).

Knowing most of the recently hired Newsom, Stras, and Walker clerks, this is not really true.

Yeah Walker in particular might be a bad example because of the DC Circuit thing that's mentioned (though the Newsom and Stras clerks I know were very strong applicants), maybe better examples are Lee and Bumatay, who do not seem to be near the top of the Fed Soc applicant pile despite being in one of the best locations in the country

I'm not saying this is the only reason, but it is not astonishing to me that Bumatay, the first gay Republican circuit judge, has some difficulties pulling from the top of the FedSoc pile.

[Reese1]

I don't think it's true that top students at top schools mostly go to 2/7/9 (it might be true for DC), especially for Fed Soc students. They choose judge by judge--Newsom and Stras are going to be more selective than Walker despite being nowhere near major coastal metros. Plus in 9 in particular there's going to be big differences in geographic desirability across judges, most aren't in LA/SF (actually very few are in SF).

Knowing most of the recently hired Newsom, Stras, and Walker clerks, this is not really true.

Yeah Walker in particular might be a bad example because of the DC Circuit thing that's mentioned (though the Newsom and Stras clerks I know were very strong applicants), maybe better examples are Lee and Bumatay, who do not seem to be near the top of the Fed Soc applicant pile despite being in one of the best locations in the country

I'm not saying this is the only reason, but it is not astonishing to me that Bumatay, the first gay Republican circuit judge, has some difficulties pulling from the top of the FedSoc pile.

I can see why you went anonymous for this flaming pile of garbage take

[Anonymous User]

I don't think it's true that top students at top schools mostly go to 2/7/9 (it might be true for DC), especially for Fed Soc students. They choose judge by judge--Newsom and Stras are going to be more selective than Walker despite being nowhere near major coastal metros. Plus in 9 in particular there's going to be big differences in geographic desirability across judges, most aren't in LA/SF (actually very few are in SF).

Knowing most of the recently hired Newsom, Stras, and Walker clerks, this is not really true.

Yeah Walker in particular might be a bad example because of the DC Circuit thing that's mentioned (though the Newsom and Stras clerks I know were very strong applicants), maybe better examples are Lee and Bumatay, who do not seem to be near the top of the Fed Soc applicant pile despite being in one of the best locations in the country

I'm not saying this is the only reason, but it is not astonishing to me that Bumatay, the first gay Republican circuit judge, has some difficulties pulling from the top of the FedSoc pile.

I can see why you went anonymous for this flaming pile of garbage take

Is it really controversial that a lot of conservatives still disapprove of homosexuality? A 2021 Gallup poll shows that 45% of Republicans disapprove of same-sex marriage. That's not the same as disapproving of homosexuality writ large, but it's obviously relevant.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think it's true that top students at top schools mostly go to 2/7/9 (it might be true for DC), especially for Fed Soc students. They choose judge by judge--Newsom and Stras are going to be more selective than Walker despite being nowhere near major coastal metros. Plus in 9 in particular there's going to be big differences in geographic desirability across judges, most aren't in LA/SF (actually very few are in SF).

Knowing most of the recently hired Newsom, Stras, and Walker clerks, this is not really true.

Yeah Walker in particular might be a bad example because of the DC Circuit thing that's mentioned (though the Newsom and Stras clerks I know were very strong applicants), maybe better examples are Lee and Bumatay, who do not seem to be near the top of the Fed Soc applicant pile despite being in one of the best locations in the country

I'm not saying this is the only reason, but it is not astonishing to me that Bumatay, the first gay Republican circuit judge, has some difficulties pulling from the top of the FedSoc pile.

I can see why you went anonymous for this flaming pile of garbage take

Is it really controversial that a lot of conservatives still disapprove of homosexuality? A 2021 Gallup poll shows that 45% of Republicans disapprove of same-sex marriage. That's not the same as disapproving of homosexuality writ large, but it's obviously relevant.

It's a garbage take because not every member of FedSoc is a Republican, Republican members of FedSoc at top law schools generally tend to be quite approving of homosexuality anyway, and actually knowing who Bumatay hires (which is not particularly difficult to find out) instead of shooting off hot takes from the hip completely disproves the notion Bumatay (and Lee) have any difficulty hiring who they want.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think it's true that top students at top schools mostly go to 2/7/9 (it might be true for DC), especially for Fed Soc students. They choose judge by judge--Newsom and Stras are going to be more selective than Walker despite being nowhere near major coastal metros. Plus in 9 in particular there's going to be big differences in geographic desirability across judges, most aren't in LA/SF (actually very few are in SF).

Knowing most of the recently hired Newsom, Stras, and Walker clerks, this is not really true.

Yeah Walker in particular might be a bad example because of the DC Circuit thing that's mentioned (though the Newsom and Stras clerks I know were very strong applicants), maybe better examples are Lee and Bumatay, who do not seem to be near the top of the Fed Soc applicant pile despite being in one of the best locations in the country

I'm not saying this is the only reason, but it is not astonishing to me that Bumatay, the first gay Republican circuit judge, has some difficulties pulling from the top of the FedSoc pile.

I can see why you went anonymous for this flaming pile of garbage take

Is it really controversial that a lot of conservatives still disapprove of homosexuality? A 2021 Gallup poll shows that 45% of Republicans disapprove of same-sex marriage. That's not the same as disapproving of homosexuality writ large, but it's obviously relevant.

It is somewhat ironic I just google searched "Patrick Bumatay clerk" and the first person that showed up is someone who appears to be an ultra-conservative Republican Special Forces vet running for Congress.

[Anonymous User]

Not that he needs any endorsement, but Oetken has to be the best trial court clerkship in the country. Feeder, super nice, as close as SDNY gets to a lifestyle clerkship, and way too “cool” to be a federal judge.

[Anonymous User]

I've read a few comments on here saying to avoid Judge Wolf on D. Mass. Can anyone elaborate on why? We have a lot of overlapping interests so I was considering applying.

[Anonymous User]

Not that he needs any endorsement, but Oetken has to be the best trial court clerkship in the country. Feeder, super nice, as close as SDNY gets to a lifestyle clerkship, and way too “cool” to be a federal judge.

fwiw which is not much but i know someone who had a very negative experience with JPO

[Anonymous User]

Hearing mixed things about Myrna Perez. Any word?

[Anonymous User]

I've clerked around in both state and federal (US Dist.) for several years in a few states. (Bounced around while I figured out what I did/didn't want to practice). My experience is more relevant to those who are more interested in flyover state clerkships.

Firsthand, I can say Chief Judge Hickey in the WD AR is pretty miserable. No clear expectations. Feel like you were punished for asking very reasonable questions regarding the judges preference on how she wanted to rule on motions. Overall, a very hostile/toxic environment without much upside. There is no mentorship to speak of. So unless you have connections and just want a clerkship on your resume, stay away. The only feeder might be to Judge Shepherd or Smith on the 8th Circuit or the USDC for the Western District of Texas. (Not that many are interested in clerking in flyover states/districts).

Secondhand, Judge Brooks in the WD of Ark. is great to clerks and wants to see you succeed. Many of his clerks have moved on to circuit court spots, and he likes to hire from bigger schools. Plus, Fayetteville is a great place to live for a bit.

Judge Lipez on the First Circuit is also great to clerks. He's senior status now, but still hiring clerks. He has been a judge for a very long time and I clerked for other judges who have worked with him. Great experience for someone who wants to land in New England.

Judge Lance Walker for the District of Maine is also one worth considering, if you don't mind northern Maine. His writing style and treatment of litigants from has come under scrutiny, even when he was on the state bench. He can be pretty harsh in his writing and so it may not be the best place to work on your writing style. However, he invests in his clerks and wants to see them succeed.

I've also had good experience and or heard good things (directly from their former clerks) with the following judges:

Judge David Nuffer (D. Utah)
Judge Kristine Baker (ED Ark)
Judge Richard Griffin (6th Cir.)

Just for FYI, former co-clerk said that when he interviewed with Judge Sarah Pitlyk (ED Mo), she spent the interview grilling him about what his opinion was on Justice Kavanaugh's appointment and confirmation hearing. Overall, said it felt very aggressive.

[Anonymous User]

Not that he needs any endorsement, but Oetken has to be the best trial court clerkship in the country. Feeder, super nice, as close as SDNY gets to a lifestyle clerkship, and way too “cool” to be a federal judge.

fwiw which is not much but i know someone who had a very negative experience with JPO

Can you say any more (without outing the source)?

[Anonymous User]

Just for FYI, former co-clerk said that when he interviewed with Judge Sarah Pitlyk (ED Mo), she spent the interview grilling him about what his opinion was on Justice Kavanaugh's appointment and confirmation hearing. Overall, said it felt very aggressive.

Suppose it would be an awkward clerkship experience for everyone involved if you sincerely think the Judge she clerked for is a sexual deviant.

[Anonymous User]

Just for FYI, former co-clerk said that when he interviewed with Judge Sarah Pitlyk (ED Mo), she spent the interview grilling him about what his opinion was on Justice Kavanaugh's appointment and confirmation hearing. Overall, said it felt very aggressive.

Suppose it would be an awkward clerkship experience for everyone involved if you sincerely think the Judge she clerked for is a sexual deviant.

OP Here.

Indeed. But co-clerk said interview focused more on ideology than it did his skills and experience. Just hope the information helps people find the right chambers for them/their goals.

[lavarman84]

Just for FYI, former co-clerk said that when he interviewed with Judge Sarah Pitlyk (ED Mo), she spent the interview grilling him about what his opinion was on Justice Kavanaugh's appointment and confirmation hearing. Overall, said it felt very aggressive.

Suppose it would be an awkward clerkship experience for everyone involved if you sincerely think the Judge she clerked for is a sexual deviant.

Why? I feel like I could work just fine with a Reinhardt or Kozinski clerk despite knowing their judge's dirty laundry.

[Saami]

Just for FYI, former co-clerk said that when he interviewed with Judge Sarah Pitlyk (ED Mo), she spent the interview grilling him about what his opinion was on Justice Kavanaugh's appointment and confirmation hearing. Overall, said it felt very aggressive.

Suppose it would be an awkward clerkship experience for everyone involved if you sincerely think the Judge she clerked for is a sexual deviant.

Why? I feel like I could work just fine with a Reinhardt or Kozinski clerk despite knowing their judge's dirty laundry.

I'm guessing the difference is a Kozinski clerk would admit that Kozinski committed wrongdoings, whereas Judge Pitlyk might deny any such wrongdoing on Kavanaugh's part, given her support for his nomination to the Supreme Court.

[Anonymous User]

Just for FYI, former co-clerk said that when he interviewed with Judge Sarah Pitlyk (ED Mo), she spent the interview grilling him about what his opinion was on Justice Kavanaugh's appointment and confirmation hearing. Overall, said it felt very aggressive.

Suppose it would be an awkward clerkship experience for everyone involved if you sincerely think the Judge she clerked for is a sexual deviant.

Why? I feel like I could work just fine with a Reinhardt or Kozinski clerk despite knowing their judge's dirty laundry.

I'm guessing the difference is a Kozinski clerk would admit that Kozinski committed wrongdoings, whereas Judge Pitlyk might deny any such wrongdoing on Kavanaugh's part, given her support for his nomination to the Supreme Court.

I have plenty of conservative friends who think BK was wrongly accused. I disagree with them, but doesn't mean I can't be friendly with them. Forcing clerks to believe in his innocence as a litmus test is weird imo.

[Anonymous User]

Just for FYI, former co-clerk said that when he interviewed with Judge Sarah Pitlyk (ED Mo), she spent the interview grilling him about what his opinion was on Justice Kavanaugh's appointment and confirmation hearing. Overall, said it felt very aggressive.

Suppose it would be an awkward clerkship experience for everyone involved if you sincerely think the Judge she clerked for is a sexual deviant.

Why? I feel like I could work just fine with a Reinhardt or Kozinski clerk despite knowing their judge's dirty laundry.

I'm guessing the difference is a Kozinski clerk would admit that Kozinski committed wrongdoings, whereas Judge Pitlyk might deny any such wrongdoing on Kavanaugh's part, given her support for his nomination to the Supreme Court.

I have plenty of conservative friends who think BK was wrongly accused. I disagree with them, but doesn't mean I can't be friendly with them. Forcing clerks to believe in his innocence as a litmus test is weird imo.

I'd assume she'd think it's a mark against their critical thinking abilities.

I wouldn't think this is purely a Pitlyk thing, I doubt many of the FedSoc judges out there are trying to hire clerks that seriously think Kavanaugh sexually assaulted people. Maybe it comes up less on the district court level, but every circuit court interview I ever did had fairly aggressive ideology-based questioning.

[Anonymous User]

clerked for a FedSoc COA with a rigorous screening process (no "right" answers, but wanted to see how candidates thought at least). our chambers would never, ever ask about the Kavanaugh nomination. would have been viewed as totally out-of-bounds/inappropriate.

Pitlyk's own nomination was contentious (for a district court nominee especially), so maybe she wants to make sure her first couple sets of clerks are true believers or something? IDK, I think it's weird

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything about how the recent Biden CoA appointees who weren't previously judges (ex. Jackson-Akiwumi Perez, Lee, Rossman, Sung) are to work for/as bosses?

[Anonymous User]

clerked for a FedSoc COA with a rigorous screening process (no "right" answers, but wanted to see how candidates thought at least). our chambers would never, ever ask about the Kavanaugh nomination. would have been viewed as totally out-of-bounds/inappropriate.

Pitlyk's own nomination was contentious (for a district court nominee especially), so maybe she wants to make sure her first couple sets of clerks are true believers or something? IDK, I think it's weird

Ditto, I'm clerking for a reasonably prominent Trump-appointee Fed Soc judge and interviewed with a good number of them and this (if true) strikes me as super goofy. Many judges ask lots of stuff about textualism and originalism, few (afaik) ask anything like this.

[Anonymous User]

I've clerked around in both state and federal (US Dist.) for several years in a few states. (Bounced around while I figured out what I did/didn't want to practice). My experience is more relevant to those who are more interested in flyover state clerkships.

Firsthand, I can say Chief Judge Hickey in the WD AR is pretty miserable. No clear expectations. Feel like you were punished for asking very reasonable questions regarding the judges preference on how she wanted to rule on motions. Overall, a very hostile/toxic environment without much upside. There is no mentorship to speak of. So unless you have connections and just want a clerkship on your resume, stay away. The only feeder might be to Judge Shepherd or Smith on the 8th Circuit or the USDC for the Western District of Texas. (Not that many are interested in clerking in flyover states/districts).

Secondhand, Judge Brooks in the WD of Ark. is great to clerks and wants to see you succeed. Many of his clerks have moved on to circuit court spots, and he likes to hire from bigger schools. Plus, Fayetteville is a great place to live for a bit.

Judge Lipez on the First Circuit is also great to clerks. He's senior status now, but still hiring clerks. He has been a judge for a very long time and I clerked for other judges who have worked with him. Great experience for someone who wants to land in New England.

Judge Lance Walker for the District of Maine is also one worth considering, if you don't mind northern Maine. His writing style and treatment of litigants from has come under scrutiny, even when he was on the state bench. He can be pretty harsh in his writing and so it may not be the best place to work on your writing style. However, he invests in his clerks and wants to see them succeed.

I've also had good experience and or heard good things (directly from their former clerks) with the following judges:

Judge David Nuffer (D. Utah)
Judge Kristine Baker (ED Ark)
Judge Richard Griffin (6th Cir.)

Just for FYI, former co-clerk said that when he interviewed with Judge Sarah Pitlyk (ED Mo), she spent the interview grilling him about what his opinion was on Justice Kavanaugh's appointment and confirmation hearing. Overall, said it felt very aggressive.

Thank you for the awesome write up! Do you happen to know about how Lipez or Griffin hire? Are they willing to look past school pedigree for candidates with district court experience?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for the awesome write up! Do you happen to know about how Lipez or Griffin hire? Are they willing to look past school pedigree for candidates with district court experience?
[/quote]

I think that Lipez places a high value on both school and experience. His writing is very precise and he focuses on how doctrines evolve to produce a legal rule. Also, New England as a culture seems to place a higher value on academic credentials than other places. So I think he likes to see editorial board for law review.

Griffin might be more willing to look past school. I know his application requires something like four writing samples. Two civil and two criminal. Don't quote me on that though.

Judge Arnold on the 8th Cir. is hiring as of yesterday per OSCAR. I clerked in the Dist. where he was a trial judge and I think he is pretty old school in terms of hiring. (He did take senior status in 2006). He would be willing to look past school toward more practical experience I think. However, I have never come across his former clerks, so I cant say for sure. But being around the judges that replaced him on both the USDC (Judge Barnes who passed) and the COA (Judge Shepherd, who generally only hires people connected to Arkansas), I can say there is an overall culture that places a high value on experience rather than academics.

[Anonymous User]

I've read a few comments on here saying to avoid Judge Wolf on D. Mass. Can anyone elaborate on why? We have a lot of overlapping interests so I was considering applying.

Wolf has a short temper and can come across as rude, but I’ve generally heard about his rage directed to litigants and to his court reporter/docket clerk etc rather than law clerks. He also does not take any vacation outside of August. He’s just generally known for being a tough boss/intense on what is a really collegial district, but I think he’s actually okay to law clerks.

[Anonymous User]

Anon for obvious reasons- in a similar vein to the prior post, Judge Wilson on CD Cal. can come across as very aggressive in court/trial, but he's nothing like that in chambers or with his law clerks in my experience.