Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[lavarman84]

Is Lagoa bad to work for, or is this just a disagreement with her politics? I have not heard anything problematic about her as a boss, and she's very well connected and sits in a desirable city.

No idea how she is as a boss. It's a comment on her judicial demeanor (from a litigant's perspective), competence, and politics.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody have insight into clerking for donato on ndcal? He’s sort of a PITA to litigate before but idk the extent to which that translates to clerks

have heard it's even worse for his clerks, never heard anything good about him. would avoid

[Anonymous User]

Haven't heard precisely why but have been strongly urged to avoid Donato.

[Anonymous User]

Haven't heard precisely why but have been strongly urged to avoid Donato.

Clerked on ND Cal and Donato is one of the two judges there that I would encourage people to avoid, along with Armstrong, though I don't know if she's even taking term clerks anymore.

There are some absolute gems on ND Cal, it's a great place to clerk. Donato was a real outlier, temperament-wise, when I was there.

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw, I met Lagoa socially. She was kind. A bit of busy-mom energy.

I know she expects clerks to take minimal vacation, but thats hardly unusual.

[throwawayt14]

Fwiw, I met Lagoa socially. She was kind. A bit of busy-mom energy.

I know she expects clerks to take minimal vacation, but thats hardly unusual.

The previous criticism of her didn't sound like it was based on anything other than anger that she was appointed by Trump.

[Anonymous User]

I know she expects clerks to take minimal vacation, but thats hardly unusual.

This is par for the course on a standard 12-month clerkship. I clerked for a judge who has been praised across TLS as being excellent to work for (and the praise is correct), and his policy was "occasional long weekend is fine, fine to go to your friend's wedding, but push off the planned week-long vacation until the clerkship is over."

My other judge did 18-month clerkships and allowed 2 weeks of vacation. I think if you are clerking for over a year, judges are more likely to be OK with a vacation.

[lavarman84]

Fwiw, I met Lagoa socially. She was kind. A bit of busy-mom energy.

I know she expects clerks to take minimal vacation, but thats hardly unusual.

The previous criticism of her didn't sound like it was based on anything other than anger that she was appointed by Trump.

More than that. But it's not based on her treatment of clerks, as I said. Being blunt, she's an intellectual lightweight. And it's only made that much more noticeable by how bright some of the other Trump appointees on the Eleventh Circuit are. I also have my complaints about her ideology (best described as Alitoesque) and her treatment of certain litigants at oral argument, but I doubt those things matter to a person considering clerking for her.

[Anonymous User]

Looks like Tipton is moving to the Houston division to replace the retiring (and notorious) Lynn Hughes, which will presumably end his stint as a major conservative impact litigation judge. Some of the immigration cases that would otherwise have gone to him will probably go to Brown, Kacsmaryk, O'Connor, or Pittman.

[Anonymous User]

I can't get into specifics without outing myself, but I've heard stories of Lagoa playing downright abusive head games with clerks and prospective clerks. No firsthand experience / not an Eleventh Circuit clerk. Just heard she's developed a reputation among folks at my school who know her clerks.

[Anonymous User]

I can't get into specifics without outing myself, but I've heard stories of Lagoa playing downright abusive head games with clerks and prospective clerks. No firsthand experience / not an Eleventh Circuit clerk. Just heard she's developed a reputation among folks at my school who know her clerks.

I also got the impression that Lagoa wasn't among the top picks for conservatives with CA11 ties at my T14 - though to be fair, Bill Pryor, Newsom, and Grant have fed to SCOTUS (I believe Grant's feeds were supposed to clerk for Kavanaugh when he was on CADC?). Now that she (1) has lost the SCOTUS nomination to Barrett and (2) will be too old to be a contender in 2025 (even if DeSantis gets the Republican nomination and wins in 2024, I feel like he'd go with someone younger), I wonder if she'll chill out or change how she operates.

[Anonymous User]

Lagoa is definitely not as desirable as Pryor, Newsom, or Grant—probably more similar to Carnes, Brasher, or Branch

[Anonymous User]

Lagoa is definitely not as desirable as Pryor, Newsom, or Grant—probably more similar to Carnes, Brasher, or Branch

My understanding was that Carnes was far and above a better feeder than Grant, but I'll admit I'm not extremely up to date on the 11th Circuit.

[Anonymous User]

Lagoa is definitely not as desirable as Pryor, Newsom, or Grant—probably more similar to Carnes, Brasher, or Branch

My understanding was that Carnes was far and above a better feeder than Grant, but I'll admit I'm not extremely up to date on the 11th Circuit.

Carnes has not fed in years. Grant and Pryor have 5 feeds each in the upcoming two terms and Newsom has 4 according to David Lat.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP but for those of us who dgaf about feeding and just want a COA clerkship, is the consensus that Lagoa wouldn’t be a good fit for/wouldn’t hire anyone who’s not a hardcore conservative? Moderate liberal with ties to Miami and would really like to clerk there, and I’m wondering if Jordan and Rosenbaum (who seems too intense for me IMO) are the only options.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP but for those of us who dgaf about feeding and just want a COA clerkship, is the consensus that Lagoa wouldn’t be a good fit for/wouldn’t hire anyone who’s not a hardcore conservative? Moderate liberal with ties to Miami and would really like to clerk there, and I’m wondering if Jordan and Rosenbaum (who seems too intense for me IMO) are the only options.

Sounds like you'd be a good fit for Stanley Marcus.

With respect to Lagoa, she is not going to hire you anyways—she has her own process and it is does not involve moderate liberals from what I understand.

[Anonymous User]

Marcus seems like he would be a stellar clerkship; just a lot of fun. So would Jordan and Rosenbaum. But Marcus isn’t liberal, just so you know. Jordan is more moderate than the other liberals (J Pryor, Rosenbaum, and Wilson). Wilson sits in Tampa so you may want to throw an app that way too.

For the conservatives who don’t feed, I’d look at Lagoa and Brasher as chill clerkships (but you’ll need FedSoc on the resume to get those).

Luck and Ed Carnes are both intense clerkships, I’ve heard.

Would avoid Branch. (See eg, any of her signed opinions).

[Anonymous User]

Marcus seems like he would be a stellar clerkship; just a lot of fun. So would Jordan and Rosenbaum. But Marcus isn’t liberal, just so you know. Jordan is more moderate than the other liberals (J Pryor, Rosenbaum, and Wilson). Wilson sits in Tampa so you may want to throw an app that way too.

For the conservatives who don’t feed, I’d look at Lagoa and Brasher as chill clerkships (but you’ll need FedSoc on the resume to get those).

Luck and Ed Carnes are both intense clerkships, I’ve heard.

Would avoid Branch. (See eg, any of her signed opinions).

(Anon who recommended the dude to Marcus). Marcus isn't super liberal, but he's in that kind of gray zone where he can write or join some super-liberal opinions. Reminds me of like St. Eve or Gibbons in that regard. Also OP if you google him, he was appointed by Clinton but it was some like compromise package thing I believe.

[Anonymous User]

Lagoa does not exclusively hire through FedSoc, but her process is heavily based on personality fit. Her ideal clerk seems to be HYS + FedSoc + district court experience + connected to Florida.

[Anonymous User]

Lagoa is definitely not as desirable as Pryor, Newsom, or Grant—probably more similar to Carnes, Brasher, or Branch

My understanding was that Carnes was far and above a better feeder than Grant, but I'll admit I'm not extremely up to date on the 11th Circuit.

Carnes has not fed in years. Grant and Pryor have 5 feeds each in the upcoming two terms and Newsom has 4 according to David Lat.

Carnes fed to Alito a couple years ago, but that person had also clerked for Thapar. He is certainly still more of a feeder than Brasher, Branch, Lagoa, or Luck but not in the same universe as the other three.

For those not gunning for SCOTUS, Lagoa is the only conservative appellate judge in Miami, which isn't nothing. If you're going to clerk somewhere, the beach is an awfully nice place.

[Anonymous User]

The prestige of a D.C. Circuit clerkship is not worth suffering through a week, let alone a year, of Florence Pan.

[Anonymous User]

The prestige of a D.C. Circuit clerkship is not worth suffering through a week, let alone a year, of Florence Pan.

Got any specific stories? It sounds like she’s generally demeaning and abusive to her clerks

[Anonymous User]

I know Sung is so new that there's not much out there but... does anyone have any insights into her chambers? I have a recommender with a personal connection but we both don't want to play that card unless I'm positive I want to be there.

[Anonymous User]

The prestige of a D.C. Circuit clerkship is not worth suffering through a week, let alone a year, of Florence Pan.

Got any specific stories? It sounds like she’s generally demeaning and abusive to her clerks

Second this question. I keep hearing general negative murmurs, but nothing specific.

[Anonymous User]

The prestige of a D.C. Circuit clerkship is not worth suffering through a week, let alone a year, of Florence Pan.

Got any specific stories? It sounds like she’s generally demeaning and abusive to her clerks

Second this question. I keep hearing general negative murmurs, but nothing specific.

Also curious. But we probably won't get any specific stories. The four most likely sources of these murmurs are:

(a) Current/recent clerks that have already boxed themselves into a small group of people and don't want to completely dox themselves. This post sounds like a really frustrated current clerk.

(b) Other clerks or court employees that either have general bad vibes or don't want to dox the clerks that confided in them with specifics. I think the earlier posts explicitly stated they were second hand.

(c) Some of her superior court clerks who may have stories that don't translate well from the fast-paced and hectic state trial court experience. I don't think this is likely because bad bahaviors like screaming and chair throwing translate to different courts and a superior court clerk could safely identify themselves as such.

(d) Someone with a personal axe to grind against her. I don't think this is likely since she isn't at all controversial from what I can tell, but include it for completeness because weird things happen—e.g., that former KBJ clerk who was editing Judge Childs' wikipedia page during the Breyer successor fight.