Clerks Taking Questions Forum

(Seek and share information about clerkship applications, clerkship hiring timelines, and post-clerkship employment opportunities)
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:50 am

Chance me maybe?

Lower T14
3.9
LR
Not prestigious UG but summa there
1L/2L SA
Fedgov Externship+Law School Clinic
TA’d twice
Only targeting Chicago (NDIL+7th)

How likely am I to get a DC or a COA in Chicago you think?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:50 am
Chance me maybe?

Lower T14
3.9
LR
Not prestigious UG but summa there
1L/2L SA
Fedgov Externship+Law School Clinic
TA’d twice
Only targeting Chicago (NDIL+7th)

How likely am I to get a DC or a COA in Chicago you think?
The answer to this depends on your school a bit. But assuming your GPA puts you in the top 5% (or perhaps even top-single digits) then you'd have a shot, especially if your lower T-14 is Northwestern. Any of your recommenders know any Chicago fed judges they can put you in contact with? That makes a huge difference. What are your Chicago ties?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:54 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:50 am
Chance me maybe?

Lower T14
3.9
LR
Not prestigious UG but summa there
1L/2L SA
Fedgov Externship+Law School Clinic
TA’d twice
Only targeting Chicago (NDIL+7th)

How likely am I to get a DC or a COA in Chicago you think?
The answer to this depends on your school a bit. But assuming your GPA puts you in the top 5% (or perhaps even top-single digits) then you'd have a shot, especially if your lower T-14 is Northwestern. Any of your recommenders know any Chicago fed judges they can put you in contact with? That makes a huge difference. What are your Chicago ties?
Agree, pretty good, especially with the right ties/connections/school. Even if you're super-restrictive don't miss out on the Hammond, IN judges, including Kirsch on CA7, you can reverse commute. I'd also probably apply in Milwaukee and/or Rockford if at all possible, they're not thaaat far.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:19 pm

Obligatory "chance me" post. Here is my information:

-Recently graduated
-Transferred from a law school ranked in the 30s to a T14 (lower half).
-1L GPA from transfer school: 3.64 (strong first semester but weaker second semester)
-Cumulative GPA at new school: 3.92 (magna cum laude)
-Cumulative GPA (including 1L GPA): 3.8
-Moot court
-Judicial internship (summer between 1L and 2L)
-SA at mid-sized DC firm
-Wrote onto law review at transfer school but didn't make it onto any journal at new school
-I've developed strong writing skills despite not making journal by taking writing classes each semester. My LORs are strong and will emphasize my writing skills. My writing sample is recent and strong (won CALI award).

What are my chances for DC and COA clerkships generally? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:19 pm
Obligatory "chance me" post. Here is my information:

-Recently graduated
-Transferred from a law school ranked in the 30s to a T14 (lower half).
-1L GPA from transfer school: 3.64 (strong first semester but weaker second semester)
-Cumulative GPA at new school: 3.92 (magna cum laude)
-Cumulative GPA (including 1L GPA): 3.8
-Moot court
-Judicial internship (summer between 1L and 2L)
-SA at mid-sized DC firm
-Wrote onto law review at transfer school but didn't make it onto any journal at new school
-I've developed strong writing skills despite not making journal by taking writing classes each semester. My LORs are strong and will emphasize my writing skills. My writing sample is recent and strong (won CALI award).

What are my chances for DC and COA clerkships generally? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
You're definitely competitive, region, politics, recs, etc. will play a big role in just how competitive like they do for everybody.

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SuperJustin64

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by SuperJustin64 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:55 pm

Suppose a judge is nominated for a new post in a lateral fashion (i.e., he now sits on the bankruptcy court but is nominated for a district court seat; or he moves from the Court of International Trade to a district court). If he has already selected his clerk for a coming term, but is confirmed and makes the move before or during the term in which the new clerk is slated to arrive, are the chances good of the judge keeping that clerk with him as he switches over? If not, is the incoming clerk simply stuck with that bad stroke of luck, or is there a way in this scenario of the clerk being able to finish out his term with the first court?

kiwi50

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by kiwi50 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:33 pm

This is literally my dream! Do you have any tips for the rest of us? I am in a similar boat: I have a district court clerkship lined up but instead of working at a firm I am doing a public interest fellowship. I graduated from a T3 where my grades were nothing special at all… :/ But 9th circ would be amazing, if possible.

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:28 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:03 am
Annoying 'chance me' post. Apologies.

I've accepted a California (non-N.D. Cal.) district court clerkship for 2021-22. I didn't really think I'd have a shot at a circuit court clerkship when I initially applied, but now that I have some post-law school work experience and the trial court gig lined up, I figured I might as well make a run at the thing. What does everyone think? Planning to apply broadly.

UG: Flagship public with straight As (think Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, UVA)
LS: MVP
LSGPA: Mid-3.6 range (above median, but sub-cum laude)
Work experience: two years at a top Bay Area firm (think Cooley, MoFo, WSGR)
Other: Secondary journal, RA, strong recs, a couple fancy profs willing to make calls

An update: I landed a CA9 clerkship. Take heart, my fellow (respectable, but not super impressive) posters!

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:16 pm

SuperJustin64 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:55 pm
Suppose a judge is nominated for a new post in a lateral fashion (i.e., he now sits on the bankruptcy court but is nominated for a district court seat; or he moves from the Court of International Trade to a district court). If he has already selected his clerk for a coming term, but is confirmed and makes the move before or during the term in which the new clerk is slated to arrive, are the chances good of the judge keeping that clerk with him as he switches over? If not, is the incoming clerk simply stuck with that bad stroke of luck, or is there a way in this scenario of the clerk being able to finish out his term with the first court?
I don't know of anyone in this situation but elevated DJs generally take their clerks with them and I imagine it would be similar for a CIT, federal claims, or BK judge moving to a district court.

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:16 pm
SuperJustin64 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:55 pm
Suppose a judge is nominated for a new post in a lateral fashion (i.e., he now sits on the bankruptcy court but is nominated for a district court seat; or he moves from the Court of International Trade to a district court). If he has already selected his clerk for a coming term, but is confirmed and makes the move before or during the term in which the new clerk is slated to arrive, are the chances good of the judge keeping that clerk with him as he switches over? If not, is the incoming clerk simply stuck with that bad stroke of luck, or is there a way in this scenario of the clerk being able to finish out his term with the first court?
I don't know of anyone in this situation but elevated DJs generally take their clerks with them and I imagine it would be similar for a CIT, federal claims, or BK judge moving to a district court.

I've seen this happen from state supreme courts to federal courts. In both cases I witnessed, the judge offers to take the clerk or asks if the clerk would rather work for his/her successor. That makes sense, especially if the clerk is interested in a specific court or the judge moves cities to the new post.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:11 pm

Question regarding the writing sample:

My writing sample is a memo for a case involving racial harrassment/intimidation. As a result, there are racial slurs in the facts portion of the brief, spoken by the individuals who were racially harassing/intimidating the plaintiffs. Should I censor these words?

clerkshipinterest

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by clerkshipinterest » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:35 pm

Wondering what sort of chances I might have:

3.78 at GTown. No LR but substantial writing/research experience through supervised projects. Really great recommendations (from professors/supervisors of those projects). Master's degree. Relevant clinical experience in federal courts (upcoming).

Really only interested in Boston, where I'm from, including district court judges and the Supreme Judicial Court. Not sure how to evaluate this market--seems not as competitive as the traditional "Big Five," but I can't imagine it being very easy either. Thanks.

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beepboopbeep

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by beepboopbeep » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:11 pm
Question regarding the writing sample:

My writing sample is a memo for a case involving racial harrassment/intimidation. As a result, there are racial slurs in the facts portion of the brief, spoken by the individuals who were racially harassing/intimidating the plaintiffs. Should I censor these words?
This is a controversial question in the advocacy context -- in general, from what I've seen, plaintiffs tend to not censor so that the full impact of the slurs lands, while defendants censor, though there are exceptions and it's just generally fraught -- but I would think the relatively uncontroversial answer for a clerkship application should be "censor." I have a hard time imagining any judge or clerk dinging you for censoring. But you may well get dinged for including a racial slur in a writing sample, whether rightly or wrongly.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:55 pm

Question for clerks - if you send a paper application to chambers and the judge isn't actively hiring for that term yet -- what happens? Will they still read it? Or just put in a pile of mailed applications to read later?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:55 pm
Question for clerks - if you send a paper application to chambers and the judge isn't actively hiring for that term yet -- what happens? Will they still read it? Or just put in a pile of mailed applications to read later?
Option 3, which also sometimes happens, is that the app just gets thrown away. At least in my chambers, we wouldn't really save apps for later review - we'd either read it right away, or toss it and assume the person would apply again later. Still never hurts to try.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:55 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:55 pm
Question for clerks - if you send a paper application to chambers and the judge isn't actively hiring for that term yet -- what happens? Will they still read it? Or just put in a pile of mailed applications to read later?
Option 3, which also sometimes happens, is that the app just gets thrown away. At least in my chambers, we wouldn't really save apps for later review - we'd either read it right away, or toss it and assume the person would apply again later. Still never hurts to try.
In my chambers, it would get a first-look from a clerk, who would either put in the "qualified" pile for review at a later date, or it would go in the garbage if the person had no shot.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:01 pm

[Double post]

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:27 pm

I received an interview request for a clerkship that starts in '21 -- however, I have a firm job that starts in October. any idea how a biglaw firm would react if I got an offer for this clerkship? Should I turn down the interview?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:27 pm
I received an interview request for a clerkship that starts in '21 -- however, I have a firm job that starts in October. any idea how a biglaw firm would react if I got an offer for this clerkship? Should I turn down the interview?
Biglaw firms love it when their juniors clerk. You get a year of training that costs the firm $50K instead of over $200K, and first-year associates are not profitable anyway. Definitely let your firm know that you're interviewing, but you should be very surprised if they respond with anything but encouragement (unless you've been hired into a specific small group, or you're going to a firm that is really, really hurting for warm bodies).

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:13 pm

Would appreciate if someone could chance me for either CA9 (commutable from SF) or CA2 (commutable from NYC, but doesn’t have to be manhattan) - I have these geographic restrictions for family reasons.

Top undergrad (H/S/P)
Top law school (Y/S)
LR (generic editor)
bad law school grades (fully half Ps)
2 years work experience at top nyc boutique firm
Older applicant (lots of pre-LS experience)

My app is good except for my law school grades, which suck (was going through a tough family health situation my 2nd year).

Could I still be in the running for CA9 or 2? Are there particular judges there who are more tolerant of bad law school grades?

Thanks for any advice

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:13 pm
Would appreciate if someone could chance me for either CA9 (commutable from SF) or CA2 (commutable from NYC, but doesn’t have to be manhattan) - I have these geographic restrictions for family reasons.

Top undergrad (H/S/P)
Top law school (Y/S)
LR (generic editor)
bad law school grades (fully half Ps)
2 years work experience at top nyc boutique firm
Older applicant (lots of pre-LS experience)

My app is good except for my law school grades, which suck (was going through a tough family health situation my 2nd year).

Could I still be in the running for CA9 or 2? Are there particular judges there who are more tolerant of bad law school grades?

Thanks for any advice
Can't speak to CA2, but this would probably not have gotten a look in my judge's CA9 chambers, not one known to be especially picky on grades (i.e., not a Friedland, Watford, Ikuta type where you really need stellar grades). It mainly helps that you are a Y/S grad, especially if that means "Y," as that may mask the grades somewhat and of course the cutoffs are typically not a strict. What are your politics? I am guessing you aren't fedsoc or you would've mentioned that, but if you are or are willing to clerk for R appointees, that could help, though if you are limited to SF that's going to be especially hard given how few judges are based there or commutable from there. Friedland, Fletcher and Berzon are likely out on grades, though maybe you could get a look with Berzon depending on your boutique (do you do any plaintiff-side work? know anyone at Altshuler?) since she is going senior. Fedsoc would open things up because the other two judges listed as based on SF are Bea, who is now on senior status, and Bress, who is still new and may not be getting the same quality of applications (though I would guess still enough good apps that a median-or-below Y/S applicant is not getting a serious look).

Ironically you may not be senior enough for Callahan, who typically hires much more senior (5-10 years out of law school) and isn't known to be terribly grade conscious. But worth a shot if you're willing to clerk for her and count Sacramento as commutable to SF (it isn't, really, but maybe if you live somewhere in the middle). I'm honestly not sure I would clerk for Callahan if the other option is not clerking, but that's purely as a matter of politics, and yours (as well as your stomach for that) may differ.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:13 pm
Would appreciate if someone could chance me for either CA9 (commutable from SF) or CA2 (commutable from NYC, but doesn’t have to be manhattan) - I have these geographic restrictions for family reasons.

Top undergrad (H/S/P)
Top law school (Y/S)
LR (generic editor)
bad law school grades (fully half Ps)
2 years work experience at top nyc boutique firm
Older applicant (lots of pre-LS experience)

My app is good except for my law school grades, which suck (was going through a tough family health situation my 2nd year).

Could I still be in the running for CA9 or 2? Are there particular judges there who are more tolerant of bad law school grades?

Thanks for any advice
Being realistic, that app probably wouldn't have received a second look in my CA2 chambers (in Manhattan) without some very strong hook, like a truly glowing recommendation from a professor my judge knew or really impressive military/public service. Even then it would have been quite unlikely.

In general, the Manhattan judges ranged from very to extremely selective. Chin was probably considered the least selective and he was still a very tough hire. Most of the New Haven judges were in a similar range. The judges who were by reputation somewhat less selective were the ones far outside the city (Wesley, Pooler, and Hall before he passed).

Regardless, it never hurts to send an app. You never know whether a judge has an idiosyncratic preference that you meet.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:35 pm

This may sound like a silly question -- but I will be clerking on a district court soon and I have a small nose ring. Is it acceptable to keep it in or should I take it out? Any advice appreciated.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:26 am

What's the etiquette around letting judges know about a second clerkship? Last year I got a district court clerkship for 2023, and this week I got a circuit court clerkship for 2022. They don't overlap at all, but I was wondering if I should shoot my district judge (or her JA) an email letting her know that I'll be coming to her from another clerkship and not from a firm.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:13 pm
Would appreciate if someone could chance me for either CA9 (commutable from SF) or CA2 (commutable from NYC, but doesn’t have to be manhattan) - I have these geographic restrictions for family reasons.

Top undergrad (H/S/P)
Top law school (Y/S)
LR (generic editor)
bad law school grades (fully half Ps)
2 years work experience at top nyc boutique firm
Older applicant (lots of pre-LS experience)

My app is good except for my law school grades, which suck (was going through a tough family health situation my 2nd year).

Could I still be in the running for CA9 or 2? Are there particular judges there who are more tolerant of bad law school grades?

Thanks for any advice
Being realistic, that app probably wouldn't have received a second look in my CA2 chambers (in Manhattan) without some very strong hook, like a truly glowing recommendation from a professor my judge knew or really impressive military/public service. Even then it would have been quite unlikely.

In general, the Manhattan judges ranged from very to extremely selective. Chin was probably considered the least selective and he was still a very tough hire. Most of the New Haven judges were in a similar range. The judges who were by reputation somewhat less selective were the ones far outside the city (Wesley, Pooler, and Hall before he passed).

Regardless, it never hurts to send an app. You never know whether a judge has an idiosyncratic preference that you meet.

With Katzmann having passed away, the toughest CA2 judges to land are Livingston and Lohier I would say.

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:36 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:13 pm
Would appreciate if someone could chance me for either CA9 (commutable from SF) or CA2 (commutable from NYC, but doesn’t have to be manhattan) - I have these geographic restrictions for family reasons.

Top undergrad (H/S/P)
Top law school (Y/S)
LR (generic editor)
bad law school grades (fully half Ps)
2 years work experience at top nyc boutique firm
Older applicant (lots of pre-LS experience)

My app is good except for my law school grades, which suck (was going through a tough family health situation my 2nd year).

Could I still be in the running for CA9 or 2? Are there particular judges there who are more tolerant of bad law school grades?

Thanks for any advice
Being realistic, that app probably wouldn't have received a second look in my CA2 chambers (in Manhattan) without some very strong hook, like a truly glowing recommendation from a professor my judge knew or really impressive military/public service. Even then it would have been quite unlikely.

In general, the Manhattan judges ranged from very to extremely selective. Chin was probably considered the least selective and he was still a very tough hire. Most of the New Haven judges were in a similar range. The judges who were by reputation somewhat less selective were the ones far outside the city (Wesley, Pooler, and Hall before he passed).

Regardless, it never hurts to send an app. You never know whether a judge has an idiosyncratic preference that you meet.
With Katzmann having passed away, the toughest CA2 judges to land are Livingston and Lohier I would say.
Lohier is more willing to go beyond traditional markers of law school success. Livingston is definitely the hardest to land -- especially because she makes a concerted effort to save spots for the best students in her Columbia Law classes.

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