Clerks Taking Questions Forum

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:03 am
Annoying 'chance me' post. Apologies.

I've accepted a California (non-N.D. Cal.) district court clerkship for 2021-22. I didn't really think I'd have a shot at a circuit court clerkship when I initially applied, but now that I have some post-law school work experience and the trial court gig lined up, I figured I might as well make a run at the thing. What does everyone think? Planning to apply broadly.

UG: Flagship public with straight As (think Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, UVA)
LS: MVP
LSGPA: Mid-3.6 range (above median, but sub-cum laude)
Work experience: two years at a top Bay Area firm (think Cooley, MoFo, WSGR)
Other: Secondary journal, RA, strong recs, a couple fancy profs willing to make calls
You probably would've gotten past the clerks in my CA9 chambers, but I suspect grades would've been the barrier for getting an interview from my judge (though depends on who the recommenders are, your political affiliation, etc.). Agree with above anon that your chances are decent applying broadly.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:30 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:03 am
Annoying 'chance me' post. Apologies.

I've accepted a California (non-N.D. Cal.) district court clerkship for 2021-22. I didn't really think I'd have a shot at a circuit court clerkship when I initially applied, but now that I have some post-law school work experience and the trial court gig lined up, I figured I might as well make a run at the thing. What does everyone think? Planning to apply broadly.

UG: Flagship public with straight As (think Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, UVA)
LS: MVP
LSGPA: Mid-3.6 range (above median, but sub-cum laude)
Work experience: two years at a top Bay Area firm (think Cooley, MoFo, WSGR)
Other: Secondary journal, RA, strong recs, a couple fancy profs willing to make calls
You probably would've gotten past the clerks in my CA9 chambers, but I suspect grades would've been the barrier for getting an interview from my judge (though depends on who the recommenders are, your political affiliation, etc.). Agree with above anon that your chances are decent applying broadly.
Agree, and blanket 9 in particular. There are a lot of judges on the circuit who will look favorably on an in-circuit D. Ct. clerk with firm experience. See if you can find out who has hired people who have clerked for your district judge before.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:03 am
Annoying 'chance me' post. Apologies.

I've accepted a California (non-N.D. Cal.) district court clerkship for 2021-22. I didn't really think I'd have a shot at a circuit court clerkship when I initially applied, but now that I have some post-law school work experience and the trial court gig lined up, I figured I might as well make a run at the thing. What does everyone think? Planning to apply broadly.

UG: Flagship public with straight As (think Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, UVA)
LS: MVP
LSGPA: Mid-3.6 range (above median, but sub-cum laude)
Work experience: two years at a top Bay Area firm (think Cooley, MoFo, WSGR)
Other: Secondary journal, RA, strong recs, a couple fancy profs willing to make calls
I don't think you'd have gotten an interview in my CA5 chambers (unless you had some type of connection to the city or Judge, which could change the calculus). But, assuming a reasonably interesting resume, you might have been in the pile that the clerks talked seriously about or maybe even in the pile that the judge looked at. All that to say, you're a credible candidate but not a strong one. Apply broadly, and you'll probably get a bite. Some COA judges care about ties, so if there is a COA judge in your hometown/college town, make sure you apply there.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:03 pm

A question about personal call timing. I have an active application with a judge who started interviewing applicants in June and then abruptly stopped with plans to “resume in the spring.” I have a connection to a former colleague of the judge who called for me in June; when is a reasonable time to ask my connection to call again? Maybe February? I’m looking for the sweet spot when a call is still fresh on a judge’s mind without missing the boat for “spring” hiring.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:51 pm

Hi -- I'm looking for some feedback on how competitive I am as an applicant. The dream would be District Court in SDNY/EDNY/NDCA/CDCA/NDIL and then a clerkship with a circuit judge in 2/7/9/DC. But I understand this is a long shot. Here are my stats:

LS: MVPD
UG: Nothing special
LSGPA: Top 25% (cum laude)
Work Experience: Two years at a big firm; good work experience
Other: Executive position in secondary journal; three RAs; strong recs; one prof willing to make calls

Thanks. And happy holidays everyone.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:57 pm

Not very competitive for those courts with the exception of some judges in CDCA maybe (but you might as well apply). Consider other courts near those though, DConn, DNJ, EDPA and if you're more flexible courts like WDNY, NDNY, DVT, etc. are definitely attainable.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:57 pm
Not very competitive for those courts with the exception of some judges in CDCA maybe (but you might as well apply). Consider other courts near those though, DConn, DNJ, EDPA and if you're more flexible courts like WDNY, NDNY, DVT, etc. are definitely attainable.
Thanks -- I appreciate the candid feedback.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:23 pm

Ditto. Maybe CDCA. Apply broadly to districts near where you might be interested in living or places where you have ties.

Also, for district courts, unless you're going to the very, very top ones (which you're probably not competitive for), being close to where you want to work and have ties is more useful than being the most "prestigious" in a vacuum. There aren't many candidates for whom it makes sense to target four different markets for district courts like your list does. Maybe you're just indifferent between SF, LA, Chi, and NY, not prestige-whoring, in which case have at it, but otherwise e.g. if you really want to work in NY, target the NY districts plus blanket DNJ, D Conn...

2/7/9/DC circuit clerkships are probably well out of your league unless you're Merrick Garland's son or something.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:51 pm
Hi -- I'm looking for some feedback on how competitive I am as an applicant. The dream would be District Court in SDNY/EDNY/NDCA/CDCA/NDIL and then a clerkship with a circuit judge in 2/7/9/DC. But I understand this is a long shot. Here are my stats:

LS: MVPD
UG: Nothing special
LSGPA: Top 25% (cum laude)
Work Experience: Two years at a big firm; good work experience
Other: Executive position in secondary journal; three RAs; strong recs; one prof willing to make calls

Thanks. And happy holidays everyone.
I clerked on CA2. I don't want to be discouraging, and it never hurts to try, but that resume would not have been looked at twice in my chambers. We wouldn't have even seriously considered someone from H/S with that profile barring special factors (e.g. glowing rec from a professor the judge was friends with). Again, there's no cost to an application, but I would definitely keep expectations low.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:51 pm
Hi -- I'm looking for some feedback on how competitive I am as an applicant. The dream would be District Court in SDNY/EDNY/NDCA/CDCA/NDIL and then a clerkship with a circuit judge in 2/7/9/DC. But I understand this is a long shot. Here are my stats:

LS: MVPD
UG: Nothing special
LSGPA: Top 25% (cum laude)
Work Experience: Two years at a big firm; good work experience
Other: Executive position in secondary journal; three RAs; strong recs; one prof willing to make calls

Thanks. And happy holidays everyone.
I clerked on CA2. I don't want to be discouraging, and it never hurts to try, but that resume would not have been looked at twice in my chambers. We wouldn't have even seriously considered someone from H/S with that profile barring special factors (e.g. glowing rec from a professor the judge was friends with). Again, there's no cost to an application, but I would definitely keep expectations low.
Thank you, and everyone else for the helpful feedback. Would you say my chances at a clerkship in those circuits would be higher if I first clerked at a district court?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:25 pm

Can any former clerks shed some light on what judge or clerk "sees" when someone updates an already-submitted application in OSCAR? For example, if I swap out my writing sample or make changes to a cover letter, does someone in that chamber get notified that I've amended my application, or does the application show up differently in OSCAR?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:25 pm
Can any former clerks shed some light on what judge or clerk "sees" when someone updates an already-submitted application in OSCAR? For example, if I swap out my writing sample or make changes to a cover letter, does someone in that chamber get notified that I've amended my application, or does the application show up differently in OSCAR?
I don't know whether judges can set up notification for when an application is updated. But you are able to sort applications by date last updated. So when I logged in to OSCAR I would run this sort and it would show me both new applications and applications that had been updated. It does not tell you *what* was updated so the person reviewing has to look for the update themselves.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:42 pm

I was involved in hiring clerks during two cycles, and I am not sure I ever looked at or cared whether an application had been updated. The only thing that mattered was what the application looked like when it was time to look through the hundreds of applications we needed to evaluate. Of course, as with anything to do with clerkships, chambers vary wildly and some may care about (or even look for) updates more than others -- and both times we were hiring on-plan, which meant a much bigger time-crunch (and many more apps to look through in a short timespan) than for rolling apps.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:19 pm

I realize this is a stupid question that I should just ask the judge's JA, but what's the usual dress code for (male) judicial clerks? SDNY if that matters.

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mjb447

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:19 pm
I realize this is a stupid question that I should just ask the judge's JA, but what's the usual dress code for (male) judicial clerks? SDNY if that matters.
Varies, but mine generally maintained a pretty conservative standard in chambers (tie, long-sleeved dress shirt, dress pants), adding a jacket for in-court time. Maybe a little more flexible if we were in the office on a weekend.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:10 pm

Is it always best to submit an application via mail/email than OSCAR?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:10 pm
Is it always best to submit an application via mail/email than OSCAR?
No, OSCAR is there for a reason and most judges do not accept mailed or emailed apps. It's also administratively much easier to submit through OSCAR than it is to manage printing, PDF merging, etc.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:19 pm
I realize this is a stupid question that I should just ask the judge's JA, but what's the usual dress code for (male) judicial clerks? SDNY if that matters.
Varies by judge. My chambers (CA2) was business casual normally and business formal for sittings. Some other CA2 judges were strictly business formal. There are prominent judges on other circuits that allow jeans. Easiest thing to do is ask the JA before you start.

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polareagle

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by polareagle » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:10 pm
Is it always best to submit an application via mail/email than OSCAR?
No, OSCAR is there for a reason and most judges do not accept mailed or emailed apps. It's also administratively much easier to submit through OSCAR than it is to manage printing, PDF merging, etc.
Eh. Agree re: e-mail, that's just annoying. But unless the OSCAR profile says "no paper applications," I don't think you hurt yourself by applying via paper (or both ways). From experience, a paper app will always get read by someone. An OSCAR app might get sorted away. (Note, my experience was pre-COVID. If everything's remote, paper apps may not get read nearly as frequently.)

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:26 pm

I'd heard that email apps were more likely to get read than OSCAR because they were at least scanned once--is that not true in your experience (accounting for the differences between judges, of course)?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:31 pm

polareagle wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:18 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:10 pm
Is it always best to submit an application via mail/email than OSCAR?
No, OSCAR is there for a reason and most judges do not accept mailed or emailed apps. It's also administratively much easier to submit through OSCAR than it is to manage printing, PDF merging, etc.
Eh. Agree re: e-mail, that's just annoying. But unless the OSCAR profile says "no paper applications," I don't think you hurt yourself by applying via paper (or both ways). From experience, a paper app will always get read by someone. An OSCAR app might get sorted away. (Note, my experience was pre-COVID. If everything's remote, paper apps may not get read nearly as frequently.)
OP here. Even if the judge says she accepts online apps AND email apps, it's better to do it via OSCAR?

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polareagle

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by polareagle » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:26 pm
I'd heard that email apps were more likely to get read than OSCAR because they were at least scanned once--is that not true in your experience (accounting for the differences between judges, of course)?
If the judge provides an email address for e-mail apps / specifies that they want them that way, then yes, email is probably slightly more likely to get read than OSCAR.

If you're just thinking of kind of randomly emailing chambers, don't. My experience could be different because the district court I clerked on was on an old email system until my last week, but we only checked our "chambers" email sporadically--like once every few weeks at most when someone remembered. (Usually because we were waiting for something from the one probation officer who for some reason emailed that account rather than the clerk assigned to the case.) Given that, a paper app would be far more likely to get read, although I suppose an email would still be read more quickly than a random OSCAR app. But YMMV by chambers. (Whatever you do, don't email the judge's actual email unless you *know* it's okay. Mine would have been pissed.)
Last edited by polareagle on Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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polareagle

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by polareagle » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:31 pm
polareagle wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:18 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:10 pm
Is it always best to submit an application via mail/email than OSCAR?
No, OSCAR is there for a reason and most judges do not accept mailed or emailed apps. It's also administratively much easier to submit through OSCAR than it is to manage printing, PDF merging, etc.
Eh. Agree re: e-mail, that's just annoying. But unless the OSCAR profile says "no paper applications," I don't think you hurt yourself by applying via paper (or both ways). From experience, a paper app will always get read by someone. An OSCAR app might get sorted away. (Note, my experience was pre-COVID. If everything's remote, paper apps may not get read nearly as frequently.)
OP here. Even if the judge says she accepts online apps AND email apps, it's better to do it via OSCAR?
See my response immediately above. If the judge says they accept both, then email is fine and potentially preferable for the reason you highlight. (That being said, if it's a special application box email, they may not check that until they go through OSCAR as well. Still, they can't sort you out of email the same way they can OSCAR). Still, my advice (at least for non-pandemic times, it's weird right now), is apply by paper unless the judge tells you not to.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by purplegoldtornado » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:02 am

polareagle wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:28 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:31 pm
polareagle wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:18 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:10 pm
Is it always best to submit an application via mail/email than OSCAR?
No, OSCAR is there for a reason and most judges do not accept mailed or emailed apps. It's also administratively much easier to submit through OSCAR than it is to manage printing, PDF merging, etc.
Eh. Agree re: e-mail, that's just annoying. But unless the OSCAR profile says "no paper applications," I don't think you hurt yourself by applying via paper (or both ways). From experience, a paper app will always get read by someone. An OSCAR app might get sorted away. (Note, my experience was pre-COVID. If everything's remote, paper apps may not get read nearly as frequently.)
OP here. Even if the judge says she accepts online apps AND email apps, it's better to do it via OSCAR?
See my response immediately above. If the judge says they accept both, then email is fine and potentially preferable for the reason you highlight. (That being said, if it's a special application box email, they may not check that until they go through OSCAR as well. Still, they can't sort you out of email the same way they can OSCAR). Still, my advice (at least for non-pandemic times, it's weird right now), is apply by paper unless the judge tells you not to.
How much does the pandemic have to do with mailing things in? I’d definitely mail everything (for the judges who accept it), but I don’t want to waste postage on something that’s not worth it.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:09 am

polareagle wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:25 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:26 pm
I'd heard that email apps were more likely to get read than OSCAR because they were at least scanned once--is that not true in your experience (accounting for the differences between judges, of course)?
If the judge provides an email address for e-mail apps / specifies that they want them that way, then yes, email is probably slightly more likely to get read than OSCAR.

If you're just thinking of kind of randomly emailing chambers, don't. My experience could be different because the district court I clerked on was on an old email system until my last week, but we only checked our "chambers" email sporadically--like once every few weeks at most when someone remembered. (Usually because we were waiting for something from the one probation officer who for some reason emailed that account rather than the clerk assigned to the case.) Given that, a paper app would be far more likely to get read, although I suppose an email would still be read more quickly than a random OSCAR app. But YMMV by chambers. (Whatever you do, don't email the judge's actual email unless you *know* it's okay. Mine would have been pissed.)
Agree that this varies a ton by chambers, because I think a paper app was actually a decent bit less likely to make it through in my judge's chambers. The JA got the mail and went through it. I have no idea what he did with paper apps but I know we got some, and I also know that when it came time to actually do hiring, the pool under consideration was only the dozen or so that the clerks identified on OSCAR (and as a result same for the group we ultimately hired). I remember hearing the paper app advice when I first went through the application process ages ago, and similarly being surprised that they seemed to just disappear into the void in chambers. Ultimately agree with the recommendation to apply by both channels if possible.

FWIW, the chambers email was a different story for us and all clerks/judge/JA checked it regularly, though again that varies a lot by chambers. That might have gotten you an edge if your email came through at the right time. 100% agreed not to email the actual judge's email address ever unless explicitly told it's ok to do so.

Also, oh my god I had no idea they were still using lotus notes anywhere in the fed court system (assuming you're talking about the same old email system).

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