Clerks Taking Questions Forum

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:51 pm
I have an interview with a district judge who is taking people on a rolling basis (so I am not really going against anyone). I guess the common consensus is that the judge is going for fit. People throw that term around a lot, but are there any general guidelines about how to appear like you would be a good fit? Yeah, yeah it's idiosyncratic, but surely there is some sort of common ground about how to look like you'd fit in. I guess the offer is mine to lose, so I'm nervous I'm not going to appear like I'm a good fit.
Fit is very subjective. The best advice I can give is to just be yourself and be comfortable. Talk to the judge in the same way you would talk to a professor you are friends with. Unless you're an exceptionally dull/monotone person. Then maybe try to be a slightly more engaging version of yourself.

Also, if for whatever reason you don't get the offer, don't beat yourself up too much. If a judge doesn't feel they get along with you well, then you probably won't enjoy working for them much. I was pretty disappointed after getting rejected from a judge who I knew wasn't a great personality fit, but still, a clerkship's a clerkship. Anyways, I'm grateful that I was rejected because I was able to land a clerkship with a judge who was a much better personal fit a few weeks later. You can still have more bites at the apple.

And another piece of random advice: don't underestimate the power of fitting well with the clerks. In both of my interviews that led to offers, the clerks asked some substantive questions that were more of the "Let's make sure this person isn't crazy and/or overly result-oriented" variety. But a big chunk of the clerk interviews was just shooting the breeze--I ended up getting along with the clerks really well, which I think was a significant factor in the judges realizing I would get along well with them, too.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:07 pm

runinthefront wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:12 pm
Anonymous User wrote:What is the etiquette or standard practice on applying to judges who have not yest posted openings for that term? I have a district clerkship lined up for the 18-19 term and am applying to 19-20 circuit clerkships. There are a few judges on OSCAR who are hiring for the 2018 term, but not the 2019 term yet. Can I just apply on OSCAR but indicate in my cover letter that it is for a 19-20 position? Or is that not OK?
just apply via paper
Is this still good advice? Are chambers starting to look at paper applications or should I email chambers instead?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:07 pm
runinthefront wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:12 pm
Anonymous User wrote:What is the etiquette or standard practice on applying to judges who have not yest posted openings for that term? I have a district clerkship lined up for the 18-19 term and am applying to 19-20 circuit clerkships. There are a few judges on OSCAR who are hiring for the 2018 term, but not the 2019 term yet. Can I just apply on OSCAR but indicate in my cover letter that it is for a 19-20 position? Or is that not OK?
just apply via paper
Is this still good advice? Are chambers starting to look at paper applications or should I email chambers instead?
I applied via paper and so far have gotten 3 interviews.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:54 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:51 pm
I have an interview with a district judge who is taking people on a rolling basis (so I am not really going against anyone). I guess the common consensus is that the judge is going for fit. People throw that term around a lot, but are there any general guidelines about how to appear like you would be a good fit? Yeah, yeah it's idiosyncratic, but surely there is some sort of common ground about how to look like you'd fit in. I guess the offer is mine to lose, so I'm nervous I'm not going to appear like I'm a good fit.
Fit is very subjective. The best advice I can give is to just be yourself and be comfortable. Talk to the judge in the same way you would talk to a professor you are friends with. Unless you're an exceptionally dull/monotone person. Then maybe try to be a slightly more engaging version of yourself.

Also, if for whatever reason you don't get the offer, don't beat yourself up too much. If a judge doesn't feel they get along with you well, then you probably won't enjoy working for them much. I was pretty disappointed after getting rejected from a judge who I knew wasn't a great personality fit, but still, a clerkship's a clerkship. Anyways, I'm grateful that I was rejected because I was able to land a clerkship with a judge who was a much better personal fit a few weeks later. You can still have more bites at the apple.

And another piece of random advice: don't underestimate the power of fitting well with the clerks. In both of my interviews that led to offers, the clerks asked some substantive questions that were more of the "Let's make sure this person isn't crazy and/or overly result-oriented" variety. But a big chunk of the clerk interviews was just shooting the breeze--I ended up getting along with the clerks really well, which I think was a significant factor in the judges realizing I would get along well with them, too.
My best advice is to give the judge a reason to be excited about hiring you. Let them know what your plans are, how a clerkship fits in with those plans, why that judge specifically can help you, and how you will reflect positively on them in the future. I know that my judge, while aware most people will go from the clerkship into BigLaw, gets much more excited about applicants that give a 5-10 year plan that isn't "make money and stay a partner forever."

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 pm

I'm sure it's judge-dependent, but how often are district court clerks wearing a suit? Should you expect to wear business formal every day?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 pm
I'm sure it's judge-dependent, but how often are district court clerks wearing a suit? Should you expect to wear business formal every day?
Business casual unless circumstances require a suit. Texas.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 pm
I'm sure it's judge-dependent, but how often are district court clerks wearing a suit? Should you expect to wear business formal every day?
It's judge dependent. My clerkships were business formal every day.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:09 am

Yeah, very judge dependent. I am a woman and almost never wore full business formal as a clerk, although it may have been expected of men (the career clerk was a very stylish older woman who always looked appropriate but didn’t wear full suits, which is sort of easier for women to get away with. And frankly the litigants didn’t always wear full suits, although I don’t agree with that). I know of some chambers where having a blazer/jacket available to put on before going into the courtroom is all you need. Where I work now, the clerks are always in full suits when I see them in the courthouse, though I suspect most are jackets-off in chambers.

I have a theory that district court clerkships are actually more formal in this respect than COA, because you never know when you might show your face in court, whereas it’s pretty planned out ahead of time in COAs. But judge preference absolutely trumps so I could be full of shit.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:09 am
Yeah, very judge dependent. I am a woman and almost never wore full business formal as a clerk, although it may have been expected of men (the career clerk was a very stylish older woman who always looked appropriate but didn’t wear full suits, which is sort of easier for women to get away with. And frankly the litigants didn’t always wear full suits, although I don’t agree with that). I know of some chambers where having a blazer/jacket available to put on before going into the courtroom is all you need. Where I work now, the clerks are always in full suits when I see them in the courthouse, though I suspect most are jackets-off in chambers.

I have a theory that district court clerkships are actually more formal in this respect than COA, because you never know when you might show your face in court, whereas it’s pretty planned out ahead of time in COAs. But judge preference absolutely trumps so I could be full of shit.
How much time do district court clerks actually spend in courtrooms? Are they usually attending the judge when they're on the bench/in trial/hearings or working on opinions in chambers? I'll be clerking on SDNY if that's relevant.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:09 am
Yeah, very judge dependent. I am a woman and almost never wore full business formal as a clerk, although it may have been expected of men (the career clerk was a very stylish older woman who always looked appropriate but didn’t wear full suits, which is sort of easier for women to get away with. And frankly the litigants didn’t always wear full suits, although I don’t agree with that). I know of some chambers where having a blazer/jacket available to put on before going into the courtroom is all you need. Where I work now, the clerks are always in full suits when I see them in the courthouse, though I suspect most are jackets-off in chambers.

I have a theory that district court clerkships are actually more formal in this respect than COA, because you never know when you might show your face in court, whereas it’s pretty planned out ahead of time in COAs. But judge preference absolutely trumps so I could be full of shit.
How much time do district court clerks actually spend in courtrooms? Are they usually attending the judge when they're on the bench/in trial/hearings or working on opinions in chambers? I'll be clerking on SDNY if that's relevant.
This depends on your judge and trial schedule. My first DJ held hearings for almost every motion and we (the clerks) would usually sit in on the hearings involving out part of the docket. My second DJ hardly ever granted motion hearings so we only went into the courtroom for trials, the occasional motion hearing, and when he occasionally needed our help on a criminal matter. Trials are tricky and are somewhat out of your hands based on settlement. I had two trials with both of my judges, but my second judge had not held a trial the two years before I joined.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by mjb447 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:09 am
Yeah, very judge dependent. I am a woman and almost never wore full business formal as a clerk, although it may have been expected of men (the career clerk was a very stylish older woman who always looked appropriate but didn’t wear full suits, which is sort of easier for women to get away with. And frankly the litigants didn’t always wear full suits, although I don’t agree with that). I know of some chambers where having a blazer/jacket available to put on before going into the courtroom is all you need. Where I work now, the clerks are always in full suits when I see them in the courthouse, though I suspect most are jackets-off in chambers.

I have a theory that district court clerkships are actually more formal in this respect than COA, because you never know when you might show your face in court, whereas it’s pretty planned out ahead of time in COAs. But judge preference absolutely trumps so I could be full of shit.
How much time do district court clerks actually spend in courtrooms? Are they usually attending the judge when they're on the bench/in trial/hearings or working on opinions in chambers? I'll be clerking on SDNY if that's relevant.
Also very judge dependent, but I was the courtroom basically any time there was a proceeding for one of "my" cases in a very very non-SDNY district. Of course, if you have few trials and few motion hearings and your judge is comfortable with you being absent for some of the more rote stuff (pleas and sentencings come to mind), that still might not put you in the courtroom very often.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:09 am

I have a theory that district court clerkships are actually more formal in this respect than COA, because you never know when you might show your face in court, whereas it’s pretty planned out ahead of time in COAs. But judge preference absolutely trumps so I could be full of shit.
I think this is quite true. My district court clerkship generally required a suit five days a week (but we'd lose the tie if Judge was out). My COA clerkship was much more relaxed -- no suits or ties; polos allowed in the summer.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:19 pm

Had an interview last Thursday with a judge in which I’m not competing with anyone. Judge said he’d get back to me this week. Any predictions of the day of the week or time?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by beepboopbeep » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:19 pm
Had an interview last Thursday with a judge in which I’m not competing with anyone. Judge said he’d get back to me this week. Any predictions of the day of the week or time?
Yea, he told me he'll call you around 11am Wednesday. What do you expect here

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:37 am

I had one interview a while ago, and I just received another interview invitation. I would prefer to work for the first judge, but I haven't heard back from her. Is it appropriate to reach back out to her chambers, explain the situation, and state my preference to work for her? If so, any advice for how (email, phone) I should have the conversation or what I should disclose (who the second judge is, where they are, etc.). Fwiw, they are on the same court.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:37 am
I had one interview a while ago, and I just received another interview invitation. I would prefer to work for the first judge, but I haven't heard back from her. Is it appropriate to reach back out to her chambers, explain the situation, and state my preference to work for her? If so, any advice for how (email, phone) I should have the conversation or what I should disclose (who the second judge is, where they are, etc.). Fwiw, they are on the same court.
I think you can and should do this, but it has to be be delicate -- you don't want to come across as trying to pressure the judge.

I would probably call or email chambers, state that you have another interview coming up with another judge of the court (I wouldn't disclose the second judge unless they ask), and ask for more info on when they hope to make a decision. I think most judges understand the convention of accepting any offer you receive, so they will understand from context that you prefer to work for Judge #1 vs. Judge #2.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:58 pm

I have a 2-year district court clerkship this Fall. I'd like to apply for COAs, as slots for 2023 are opening up, but I don't think I have a chance to make it out of the pile without a recommendation from my judge—something that isn't likely if I haven't even started working. Should I wait to apply until I can get a recommendation? Or is it fine to just apply now and hope to mention that I've applied once I get some credibility?

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:58 pm
I have a 2-year district court clerkship this Fall. I'd like to apply for COAs, as slots for 2023 are opening up, but I don't think I have a chance to make it out of the pile without a recommendation from my judge—something that isn't likely if I haven't even started working. Should I wait to apply until I can get a recommendation? Or is it fine to just apply now and hope to mention that I've applied once I get some credibility?
I would talk to your judge, they might be able to set you up, many judges like their clerks to double. And you should get a bump even without a rec from your judge so I would apply now. Judges open now probably won’t be open a year from now or whenever you’ll have a rec.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:13 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:58 pm
I have a 2-year district court clerkship this Fall. I'd like to apply for COAs, as slots for 2023 are opening up, but I don't think I have a chance to make it out of the pile without a recommendation from my judge—something that isn't likely if I haven't even started working. Should I wait to apply until I can get a recommendation? Or is it fine to just apply now and hope to mention that I've applied once I get some credibility?
I would talk to your judge, they might be able to set you up, many judges like their clerks to double. And you should get a bump even without a rec from your judge so I would apply now. Judges open now probably won’t be open a year from now or whenever you’ll have a rec.
I'll go ahead and reach out to my judge. Thank you.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:13 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:58 pm
I have a 2-year district court clerkship this Fall. I'd like to apply for COAs, as slots for 2023 are opening up, but I don't think I have a chance to make it out of the pile without a recommendation from my judge—something that isn't likely if I haven't even started working. Should I wait to apply until I can get a recommendation? Or is it fine to just apply now and hope to mention that I've applied once I get some credibility?
I would talk to your judge, they might be able to set you up, many judges like their clerks to double. And you should get a bump even without a rec from your judge so I would apply now. Judges open now probably won’t be open a year from now or whenever you’ll have a rec.
Agreed especially with the bolded. My COA judge really liked applicants who were clerking on a d.ct. first. When we were grading OSCAR apps we explicitly gave a bump if you had a prior clerkship on the resume even if that clerkship was in the future relative to your app / was not accompanied by a rec from your d.ct. judge.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 02, 2021 11:32 am

Just finished an externship on the Ninth Circuit, highly recommend externships to get a sense of what a clerkship will be like. I really enjoyed it. Also, now I have something to talk about in my clerkship interviews that distracts from my terrible grades.

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 19, 2021 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:03 am
Annoying 'chance me' post. Apologies.

I've accepted a California (non-N.D. Cal.) district court clerkship for 2021-22. I didn't really think I'd have a shot at a circuit court clerkship when I initially applied, but now that I have some post-law school work experience and the trial court gig lined up, I figured I might as well make a run at the thing. What does everyone think? Planning to apply broadly.

UG: Flagship public with straight As (think Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, UVA)
LS: MVP
LSGPA: Mid-3.6 range (above median, but sub-cum laude)
Work experience: two years at a top Bay Area firm (think Cooley, MoFo, WSGR)
Other: Secondary journal, RA, strong recs, a couple fancy profs willing to make calls

An update: I landed a CA9 clerkship. Take heart, my fellow (respectable, but not super impressive) posters!

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:28 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:03 am
Annoying 'chance me' post. Apologies.

I've accepted a California (non-N.D. Cal.) district court clerkship for 2021-22. I didn't really think I'd have a shot at a circuit court clerkship when I initially applied, but now that I have some post-law school work experience and the trial court gig lined up, I figured I might as well make a run at the thing. What does everyone think? Planning to apply broadly.

UG: Flagship public with straight As (think Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, UVA)
LS: MVP
LSGPA: Mid-3.6 range (above median, but sub-cum laude)
Work experience: two years at a top Bay Area firm (think Cooley, MoFo, WSGR)
Other: Secondary journal, RA, strong recs, a couple fancy profs willing to make calls

An update: I landed a CA9 clerkship. Take heart, my fellow (respectable, but not super impressive) posters!
Awesome!!

Anonymous User
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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 19, 2021 11:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 12:28 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:03 am
Annoying 'chance me' post. Apologies.

I've accepted a California (non-N.D. Cal.) district court clerkship for 2021-22. I didn't really think I'd have a shot at a circuit court clerkship when I initially applied, but now that I have some post-law school work experience and the trial court gig lined up, I figured I might as well make a run at the thing. What does everyone think? Planning to apply broadly.

UG: Flagship public with straight As (think Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, UVA)
LS: MVP
LSGPA: Mid-3.6 range (above median, but sub-cum laude)
Work experience: two years at a top Bay Area firm (think Cooley, MoFo, WSGR)
Other: Secondary journal, RA, strong recs, a couple fancy profs willing to make calls

An update: I landed a CA9 clerkship. Take heart, my fellow (respectable, but not super impressive) posters!
Congrats! I was the anon who encouraged you to blanket CA9 because some judges on the court really like your profile (firm + D.Ct.). Glad I wasn't just crazy talking! :)

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Re: Clerks Taking Questions

Post by HillandHollow » Wed May 19, 2021 12:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 pm
I'm sure it's judge-dependent, but how often are district court clerks wearing a suit? Should you expect to wear business formal every day?
extremely judge-dependent, so ask the outgoing clerks. I showed up to work every day in khakis and a button up and my trainers. I kept a tie and blazer and office appropriate shoes at my desk, and changed as needed. When we had a full on trial or we knew we were having real hearings I wore a proper suit. But otherwise I often never even put the tie on, because it was rare for attorneys to drop by chambers. That said, clerks to other judges were never seen without a full suit and tie every single day.

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