Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have experience as a counter clerk on the COA? If so, how was that experience like? Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have experience as a counter clerk on the COA? If so, how was that experience like? Thanks in advance.

About what you’d expect. Politics doesn’t come up a ton from my experience on CA2, though it may be different on DC, 5, 6, 9, and/or 11 that have more impact lit, capital cases, and/or en banc stuff. Your judge and at least some of your coclerks will likely be conservative but as long as you’re comfortable with political disagreement it’s not a big deal. And just being willing to hire counterclerks is probably a rough proxy for ideology/moderation. It’s not a coincidence that Menashi doesn’t hire counterclerks and Sullivan does.

[Anonymous User]

I know federal clerkships can open doors at lots of firms. Conversely, does doing a 2L SA at a 'prestigious' lit firm (say W&C or MTO) carry any weight in the judicial hiring process? (Or is it just the sort of thing where students who get SAs at those firms have the underlying credentials that'll generally make them competitive in clerkship hiring?)

[nixy]

I know federal clerkships can open doors at lots of firms. Conversely, does doing a 2L SA at a 'prestigious' lit firm (say W&C or MTO) carry any weight in the judicial hiring process? (Or is it just the sort of thing where students who get SAs at those firms have the underlying credentials that'll generally make them competitive in clerkship hiring?)

I don't think that in a vacuum, working at those firms carries much weight, and that generally it's the latter (having the credentials for one makes your competitive for the other). Because this is clerkship hiring, there's never a universal answer, so I can't say that no judge will ever care - for instance, judges who themselves came out of that background might value it more. But depending where you're looking, a lot of judges won't have that kind of background (these may not be the clerkships you're interested in, but there are a lot of judicial districts that don't have those kinds of fancy lit firms or even much national biglaw, and since judges are frequently local, that kind of firm prestige may not be on their radar at all). But I don't think there's any great way to generalize or predict.

Where working at that kind of firm can carry weight is in getting to know people at the firm who have connections to judges, who can give you relevant info or even make a call, or at least write you a great letter. Again, not all judges agree, but some will really value a letter from a practitioner doing sophisticated litigation who can speak highly of you. (Other judges may just want prof letters.)

[Anonymous User]

I know federal clerkships can open doors at lots of firms. Conversely, does doing a 2L SA at a 'prestigious' lit firm (say W&C or MTO) carry any weight in the judicial hiring process? (Or is it just the sort of thing where students who get SAs at those firms have the underlying credentials that'll generally make them competitive in clerkship hiring?)

I wouldn't say it necessarily opens doors, but my judge mentioned my SA at what I will describe as a highly prestigious litigation boutique positively in the interview.

[Anonymous User]

I actually think clerkships are the rare area where old school firm prestige still counts. Judges come from another generation, many haven’t practiced law in decades, and still fewer were firm lawyers before they took the bench. At the same time, they see a lot of tiny “boutiques” nobody talks about on TLS but get a lot of time in federal court, and which are kind of terrible. All of this means that at least in my clerkships, a super selective Durie Tangri or Selendy & Gay or MTO summer gig didn’t mean that much. On the other hand, especially if the judge is in a busy district like SDNY, they’ve almost certainly seen Paul Weiss or S&C or (insert stodgy white shoe firm here) show up and be excellent. So while those places probably won’t set a candidate apart, they will provide a judge reassurance on top of a solid transcript.

[Anonymous User]

I actually think clerkships are the rare area where old school firm prestige still counts. Judges come from another generation, many haven’t practiced law in decades, and still fewer were firm lawyers before they took the bench. At the same time, they see a lot of tiny “boutiques” nobody talks about on TLS but get a lot of time in federal court, and which are kind of terrible. All of this means that at least in my clerkships, a super selective Durie Tangri or Selendy & Gay or MTO summer gig didn’t mean that much. On the other hand, especially if the judge is in a busy district like SDNY, they’ve almost certainly seen Paul Weiss or S&C or (insert stodgy white shoe firm here) show up and be excellent. So while those places probably won’t set a candidate apart, they will provide a judge reassurance on top of a solid transcript.

For what it's worth, a judge I interviewed with (who feeds a decent chunk of people) had no idea where I summered and asked me to remind them during the interview. Everything with hiring is idiosyncratic, so some judges may care. But in my experience, most don't.

[Anonymous User]

I dunno, my SDNY judge (who barely worked at a firm) definitely knew what MTO and Susman were, and as a former AUSA had an extensive knowledge of white-collar boutiques—I think the short version is just that it depends heavily on the judge.

[Anonymous User]

I dunno, my SDNY judge (who barely worked at a firm) definitely knew what MTO and Susman were, and as a former AUSA had an extensive knowledge of white-collar boutiques—I think the short version is just that it depends heavily on the judge.

Agreed. My judges knew the elite litigation boutiques I summered at. One was a former partner at one of the firms, and I think that judge probably asked about me to their former colleagues. It all depends on the identity of the judge and the particular firm, but there is definitely a sense of loyalty and a feeling of "we are the best at what we do" that some boutiques create and maintain.

Did me summering at these firms get me my clerkships? No. But it certainly didn't hurt.

[nixy]

Yeah, again, I think it’s going to vary. It makes a lot more sense that a judge in SDNY would know these firms than a judge in, say, SDGA (who went to UGA and worked in local firms or gov their whole career). So maybe you can draw some conclusions about which judges it will matter to based on their backgrounds or likely exposure to those firms. It’s absolutely not going to matter to all judges, but it will be relevant to some.

[Anonymous User]

I haven't been putting an actual signature on my cover letters (just my name typed out). How screwed am I?

[Anonymous User]

I haven't been putting an actual signature on my cover letters (just my name typed out). How screwed am I?

I have to imagine you'll be fine. I did not sign my cover letters, and I survived.

[Anonymous User]

I haven't been putting an actual signature on my cover letters (just my name typed out). How screwed am I?

This is outrageous. This kind of behavior is never tolerated in my chambers. You forget to personally sign your cover letter like that we put you in jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing. Resumes not in size 12 font, we have a special jail for that. You use em dashes instead en dashes: right to jail. Only 3 recommenders call chambers instead of 4: right to jail, right away. 10 page writing sample: jail. 20 page writing sample: jail. You apply to more than one chambers in the courthouse: you right to jail. You don't personally call every clerk before the interview? Believe it or not, jail. You make an appointment with the chambers and you don't show up 2 hours ahead of time, believe it or not, jail, right away. We have the best clerks in the world because of jail.

[Anonymous User]

I haven't been putting an actual signature on my cover letters (just my name typed out). How screwed am I?

This is outrageous. This kind of behavior is never tolerated in my chambers. You forget to personally sign your cover letter like that we put you in jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing. Resumes not in size 12 font, we have a special jail for that. You use em dashes instead en dashes: right to jail. Only 3 recommenders call chambers instead of 4: right to jail, right away. 10 page writing sample: jail. 20 page writing sample: jail. You apply to more than one chambers in the courthouse: you right to jail. You don't personally call every clerk before the interview? Believe it or not, jail. You make an appointment with the chambers and you don't show up 2 hours ahead of time, believe it or not, jail, right away. We have the best clerks in the world because of jail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiyfwZVAzGw

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone speak to the least competitive clerkships/least selective judges within commutable distance of NYC? (Context: I'm a 1L at Y/S with 4-5 years of work experience; I believe I could work hard to maximize grades/do journal, but I'm pretty uninterested in, and intimidated by, the prospect of clawing ahead of my peers for SDNY/EDNY. I have geographic restrictions for partner and family reasons).

Sorry in advance if this is the wrong forum, I'm new to this!

[Anonymous User]

I haven't been putting an actual signature on my cover letters (just my name typed out). How screwed am I?

I just put an /s/, as instructed by my school, and it worked out okay

I just went to check how I did it, and knowing how it’s properly done at my firm, I definitely did it wrong on my cover letters

[polareagle]

Not putting a real signature on your cover letters is certainly not something worth correcting a cover letter over and not something to worry about now that it's done.

That said, you should put a real signature (meaning you put a real pen on the paper) on cover letters you send them in paper form. And it's best practice to insert a picture of your signature on electronically-submitted cover letters.

The large majority of judges (and an even greater number of clerks) won't care at all. But some will. I worked for one who would note when someone didn't sign their cover letter. I doubt it ever made the difference between getting an interview or not, but you never know. In certain things, you don't want to stand out, and this is one of them.

[Anonymous User]

How much can an interests section tank an applicant? Like, I put a pretty odd sounding one on my application (it's a food that I'm passionate about baking, but instead of just putting "baking" I put the specific food, e.g., "pie"). Will judges say "this guy's a weirdo" and not interview me?

Please tell me it's okay, because I've sent out like 10 applications at this point with it on there.

[Anonymous User]

How much can an interests section tank an applicant? Like, I put a pretty odd sounding one on my application (it's a food that I'm passionate about baking, but instead of just putting "baking" I put the specific food, e.g., "pie"). Will judges say "this guy's a weirdo" and not interview me?

Please tell me it's okay, because I've sent out like 10 applications at this point with it on there.

I’m sure your interest is fine (and that seems like a fun and interesting example) but I will say I do think they have the potential to totally tank an applicant (at least they do in my COA chambers). We get so many applications that we’re looking for any reason to cut, and people really tell on themselves in interest lines. We have tossed applications that otherwise looked solid based on them, and I have seen some interests that just are red flags (ie very controversial authors/entertainment figures) or overt class indicators (“skiing in Aspen,” crew, equestrian stuff). Of course, there’s a chance you and the clerk reviewing will both love something and it’ll help, but I would just read over them carefully — or ask a friend for an honest opinion — and think about the judge when you use them.

[Anonymous User]

How much can an interests section tank an applicant? Like, I put a pretty odd sounding one on my application (it's a food that I'm passionate about baking, but instead of just putting "baking" I put the specific food, e.g., "pie"). Will judges say "this guy's a weirdo" and not interview me?

Please tell me it's okay, because I've sent out like 10 applications at this point with it on there.

I’m sure your interest is fine (and that seems like a fun and interesting example) but I will say I do think they have the potential to totally tank an applicant (at least they do in my COA chambers). We get so many applications that we’re looking for any reason to cut, and people really tell on themselves in interest lines. We have tossed applications that otherwise looked solid based on them, and I have seen some interests that just are red flags (ie very controversial authors/entertainment figures) or overt class indicators (“skiing in Aspen,” crew, equestrian stuff). Of course, there’s a chance you and the clerk reviewing will both love something and it’ll help, but I would just read over them carefully — or ask a friend for an honest opinion — and think about the judge when you use them.

On the other side, I don’t think I’ve ever axed an applicant based on an interest (and I’m a double clerk), but interests have definitely caught my eye and helped a candidate. And I have interviewed someone who randomly had a food as an interest, similar to what you mentioned, and we made sure we ask them about it

[Anonymous User]

I somehow got a district court clerkship interview and I'm a pretty terrible interviewer. Mildly freaking out. What are like five obvious questions I should prepare for? I'm likely gonna bomb this but I might as well give it my best efforts.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have experience as a counter clerk on the COA? If so, how was that experience like? Thanks in advance.

I am a liberal Democrat who clerked for a conservative judge on CA11. It was still a very good experience as the large majority of cases have no political element. In a few instances, death penalty in particular, it was trickier but my judge was very open to (encouraging of, in fact) debates and animated discussions about outcomes, and we had them. Then, the judge's decision was the way it went, and I would take it from there and do the work as instructed. Sometimes it incorporated my viewpoint, sometimes it didn't, but that is the job.

It never happened during my term, but the judge told us that some clerks had previously objected to death penalty work and the judge had no problem assigning those cases to other clerks in chambers, and that offer was open for us as well.

[Anonymous User]

I somehow got a district court clerkship interview and I'm a pretty terrible interviewer. Mildly freaking out. What are like five obvious questions I should prepare for? I'm likely gonna bomb this but I might as well give it my best efforts.

The most important thing is to go in to the interview confident. Do not have the attitude that you are going to bomb. Getting an interview means they WANT to give you the job. Judges don’t interview people for fun. The job is yours for the taking.

As for questions,
1. Be able to talk about your work at every employer on your resume
2. Be able to talk about your writing sample and identify/discuss another legal issue you’ve worked on or encountered.
3. Favorite and least favorite law school class
4. Interests outside of law/work
5. Why this court, this judge, this location. Be able to answer why federal court, why district court, why this district, why this judge.

[shoebox]

I somehow got a district court clerkship interview and I'm a pretty terrible interviewer. Mildly freaking out. What are like five obvious questions I should prepare for? I'm likely gonna bomb this but I might as well give it my best efforts.

The most important thing is to go in to the interview confident. Do not have the attitude that you are going to bomb. Getting an interview means they WANT to give you the job. Judges don’t interview people for fun. The job is yours for the taking.

As for questions,
1. Be able to talk about your work at every employer on your resume
2. Be able to talk about your writing sample and identify/discuss another legal issue you’ve worked on or encountered.
3. Favorite and least favorite law school class
4. Interests outside of law/work
5. Why this court, this judge, this location. Be able to answer why federal court, why district court, why this district, why this judge.

I'd add some variation of: Why should I hire you?

[Anonymous User]

I somehow got a district court clerkship interview and I'm a pretty terrible interviewer. Mildly freaking out. What are like five obvious questions I should prepare for? I'm likely gonna bomb this but I might as well give it my best efforts.

The most important thing is to go in to the interview confident. Do not have the attitude that you are going to bomb. Getting an interview means they WANT to give you the job. Judges don’t interview people for fun. The job is yours for the taking.

As for questions,
1. Be able to talk about your work at every employer on your resume
2. Be able to talk about your writing sample and identify/discuss another legal issue you’ve worked on or encountered.
3. Favorite and least favorite law school class
4. Interests outside of law/work
5. Why this court, this judge, this location. Be able to answer why federal court, why district court, why this district, why this judge.

Another terrible interviewer here, so I feel your pain, and I second this advice. Judges are really busy people, and they won't invite you to an interview unless they think you're qualified for the job. They also hope that the interview will go well, because that means they can stop putting the effort into finding another clerk. It helps me with my interview anxiety if I can remember that the interviewer is rooting for me to succeed, not hoping I'll fail.

The previous poster put up a good list of questions. Another question I sometimes got and found difficult to answer was "Who is your favorite Supreme Court justice?"

Also, I think perhaps the most ubiquitous interview question is "Do you have any questions for me?" That question always seemed to throw me, despite coming up so often, and I think it's really helpful to think ahead of time about what you might want to know about the judge, the workload, the court, and so forth.

When I was on the other side of interviewing as a permanent clerk, I felt like there were two types of questions that were most helpful for the interviewee to ask me to make a good impression: (1) questions about the details of our work process (e.g., how much clerks collaborate together, how much time we devote to opinion-drafting versus other work, what percent of cases are criminal versus civil and what the expectations are for clerks with these different types of cases, etc.), and (2) questions that led to me talking more about myself and my work (e.g., what I most enjoyed about the job, what cases I found most interesting to work on, how I ended up a permanent clerk, what I thought was the most difficult aspect of the job, and so forth). The judge I clerked for seemed to most appreciate questions in the second category (e.g., questions about his judicial philosophy and approach to the law), but mileage may vary with different judges.