Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Chances for EDPA or DNJ? I grew up in the Philadelphia/Lehigh Valley area, and was born in and currently live in NJ, so I have local ties to both.

- CCN
- Law review (ad board)
- 3.55 GPA (A- Fed Courts and B+ LegReg, if that's important)
- Currently work for nonprofit where I engage in litigation and policy advocacy
- TA'd/RA'd in law school, tutored 1Ls in legal writing, if any of that matters
- Have a few law review publications

Also, if I were to get a district court clerkship, would I have a shot at 3d Circuit? How would that even work? Would I need to complete the clerkship first so my judge could advocate for me, or would having an anticipated clerkship on my resume give it a bump even before I begin it?

I'm not in either DNJ or EDPA, but your app doesn't look terribly compelling - I wouldn't race to move this to the top of my pile, but I wouldn't immediately cut it either. Mediocre LegReg and FedCourts grades aren't great, but with other BLL classes, probably isn't the end of the world either.

If the nonprofit is something really interesting (ACLU comes to mind), I could see certain judges getting excited about it, especially if the academic work shows you have a strong degree of interest in whatever interest area they like. Connections and calls would go a long way. C/N should have some strong connections in both districts.

As to using a district court clerkship to move up to circuit, the answer is generally yes, you are taken more seriously. Just having "anticipated" would be enough, though a call from your judge (assuming my judge liked them) would almost invariably get you a serious look at an interview, if not one immediately, in my judge's chambers (it's not 3d though). But that also is putting the cart before the horse.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not in either DNJ or EDPA, but your app doesn't look terribly compelling - I wouldn't race to move this to the top of my pile, but I wouldn't immediately cut it either. Mediocre LegReg and FedCourts grades aren't great, but with other BLL classes, probably isn't the end of the world either.

Damn, A- is viewed as mediocre? That sucks because it's considered a pretty big accomplishment at my school to get such a grade with the particular Fed Courts professor I had. My other BLL classes are also a mix, though my only A's are Corps, Election Law, and International Law (guessing PR doesn't count, lol), so guess I'm kinda screwed. A-'s only in First Amendment and CivPro. Rest of BLLs are B+'s, B's, or P's (due to Covid).

[Anonymous User]

I'm not in either DNJ or EDPA, but your app doesn't look terribly compelling - I wouldn't race to move this to the top of my pile, but I wouldn't immediately cut it either. Mediocre LegReg and FedCourts grades aren't great, but with other BLL classes, probably isn't the end of the world either.

Damn, A- is viewed as mediocre? That sucks because it's considered a pretty big accomplishment at my school to get such a grade with the particular Fed Courts professor I had. My other BLL classes are also a mix, though my only A's are Corps, Election Law, and International Law (guessing PR doesn't count, lol), so guess I'm kinda screwed. A-'s only in First Amendment and CivPro. Rest of BLLs are B+'s, B's, or P's (due to Covid).

Well, it's not a plus - a B+/A- in LegReg and Fed Courts tells us that you are a 3.5 student on average, which is also what your GPA shows. It doesn't move the ball at all, and you need items on your resume and transcript that grab attention.

If your grades weren't amazing, there's no sense worrying about that now. You can't change it. Try and network in the community, talk with your employer, and see what your professors think.

[Anonymous User]

How do federal judges view SSC clerkships on a resume? Do they make the candidate more attractive, or not really because they don't deal with federal law?

[Anonymous User]

How do federal judges view SSC clerkships on a resume? Do they make the candidate more attractive, or not really because they don't deal with federal law?

I can only speak from experience, but my federal judge frequently hires SSC clerks who want a second clerkship. At minimum, the judge doesn't have to start from scratch, and K-JD students have learned some basic workplace decorum by the second year. There's a learning curve from state law to federal law, but if you're in the federal district court that you clerked at SSC in, you will frequently be applying state law under Erie anyway, so that's actually a bonus.

[Anonymous User]

How do federal judges view SSC clerkships on a resume? Do they make the candidate more attractive, or not really because they don't deal with federal law?

I had a state COA (not even SC) clerkship that was appealing to my federal judge because it was a previous clerkship and it signaled to them that I could write and do research. I also know a lot of people from my non-T14 school who went on to federal clerkships after state clerkships, many more than who go straight into federal clerkships after graduation, so I have to think it helped. (With the inevitable caveat that judges are idiosyncratic so no guarantee every judge feels that way.)

[Anonymous User]

How do federal judges view SSC clerkships on a resume? Do they make the candidate more attractive, or not really because they don't deal with federal law?

At least in TX, SSC is very valuable. Most judges respect the justices and about 1/4 of the clerks go on to federal courts. (About 1/4 going to SCOTX came from federal courts first.) Many of the justices are also very well connected, which helps with some of the federal judges. I've seen the same in Mass.

Some of this is specific to certain justices, too. Lee in UT, for example, is different than many other justices around the nation.

[Anonymous User]

Echoing SSC is definitely a boost, especially if it’s a well-regarded judge/court

[Anonymous User]

How do federal judges view SSC clerkships on a resume? Do they make the candidate more attractive, or not really because they don't deal with federal law?

At least in TX, SSC is very valuable. Most judges respect the justices and about 1/4 of the clerks go on to federal courts. (About 1/4 going to SCOTX came from federal courts first.) Many of the justices are also very well connected, which helps with some of the federal judges. I've seen the same in Mass.

Some of this is specific to certain justices, too. Lee in UT, for example, is different than many other justices around the nation.

Same anon. I want to add that the TX0 clerks who have clerked before coming in are generally from district court judges, and fewer from mag judges. The clerks going on to federal district judges go on to a mix of federal district and COA judges. Some justices send more clerks out to federal gigs.

[Anonymous User]

Chances for EDPA or DNJ? I grew up in the Philadelphia/Lehigh Valley area, and was born in and currently live in NJ, so I have local ties to both.

- CCN
- Law review (ad board)
- 3.55 GPA (A- Fed Courts and B+ LegReg, if that's important)
- Currently work for nonprofit where I engage in litigation and policy advocacy
- TA'd/RA'd in law school, tutored 1Ls in legal writing, if any of that matters
- Have a few law review publications

Also, if I were to get a district court clerkship, would I have a shot at 3d Circuit? How would that even work? Would I need to complete the clerkship first so my judge could advocate for me, or would having an anticipated clerkship on my resume give it a bump even before I begin it?

for what it's worth, I got DNJ with similar stats/credentials so you'd probably at least be in the mix

[Anonymous User]

Chances for EDPA or DNJ? I grew up in the Philadelphia/Lehigh Valley area, and was born in and currently live in NJ, so I have local ties to both.

- CCN
- Law review (ad board)
- 3.55 GPA (A- Fed Courts and B+ LegReg, if that's important)
- Currently work for nonprofit where I engage in litigation and policy advocacy
- TA'd/RA'd in law school, tutored 1Ls in legal writing, if any of that matters
- Have a few law review publications

Also, if I were to get a district court clerkship, would I have a shot at 3d Circuit? How would that even work? Would I need to complete the clerkship first so my judge could advocate for me, or would having an anticipated clerkship on my resume give it a bump even before I begin it?

for what it's worth, I got DNJ with similar stats/credentials so you'd probably at least be in the mix

Thank you for giving me hope, anon.

[Anonymous User]

I have a two-year district court clerkship lined up starting 2023. I have a few questions about applying to CoA after. Not trying to be an appellate specialist or anything but would like to do an occasional appeal. Maybe interested in government down the line as well.

(1) I'm going back to my summer firm for 2022 and think I'd actually like to go back post-clerkship. Do you think they'd be annoyed if I took three years to clerk (two-years of district court + one year of CoA)? Obviously, wouldn't be getting class credit/bonus for that year but wondering if there are any other downsides and what the potential upside is.

(2) When should I start applying? 2025 is a long ways away and there is nothing really going on on OSCAR yet. Worth sending applications in 2022? Or should I just wait to start the clerkship and have the benefit of having my judge potentially help out.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure this varies by district, but anyone have a sense/guess of how many trials a district court judge is likely to have over the course of a year long clerkship?

[Anonymous User]

Chances for EDPA or DNJ? I grew up in the Philadelphia/Lehigh Valley area, and was born in and currently live in NJ, so I have local ties to both.

- CCN
- Law review (ad board)
- 3.55 GPA (A- Fed Courts and B+ LegReg, if that's important)
- Currently work for nonprofit where I engage in litigation and policy advocacy
- TA'd/RA'd in law school, tutored 1Ls in legal writing, if any of that matters
- Have a few law review publications

Also, if I were to get a district court clerkship, would I have a shot at 3d Circuit? How would that even work? Would I need to complete the clerkship first so my judge could advocate for me, or would having an anticipated clerkship on my resume give it a bump even before I begin it?

CCN that clerked CA3. your GPA = ordinarily auto-reject in our chambers. DNJ/EDPA clerkship wouldn't help unless (a) your judge called my judge, (b) my judge respected your judge (not all d ct judges are actually any good), (c) said you were actually amazing etc

just being realistic. maybe other chambers view it differently, but we got a ton of apps from district court clerks/law students with district court clerkships already lined up, and really were sticklers about grades

[Anonymous User]

Also a CLS 3L:

Was wondering chances at circuit clerkship for 2023/24, particularly if I apply fairly broadly. I'm heading to biglaw next year but am hoping to get a clerkship before I start.

- Sec. Journal (ad board)
- 4 years work experience prior to law school/
- 3.83 GPA
- TA'd/RA'd
- No publication
- Don't have amazing prof. connects but building some currently.

Curious what people's thoughts are since haven't gotten much guidance on competitiveness. Are there any circuits totally out-of-play or others that will be easier?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Also a CLS 3L:

Was wondering chances at circuit clerkship for 2023/24, particularly if I apply fairly broadly. I'm heading to biglaw next year but am hoping to get a clerkship before I start.

- Sec. Journal (ad board)
- 4 years work experience prior to law school/
- 3.83 GPA
- TA'd/RA'd
- No publication
- Don't have amazing prof. connects but building some currently.

Curious what people's thoughts are since haven't gotten much guidance on competitiveness. Are there any circuits totally out-of-play or others that will be easier?

Thanks!

Circuit clerk here. The GPA would keep you in the mix for basically any circuit, but we would need to know if that GPA is getting propped up by real courses or not. Getting Kent 1L would be a big bonus. Non-Kent 1L and a 2L and 3L filled with fluff seminars and externships would not make you a viable candidate.

If you TA'd/RA'd, reach out to those professors, they should be your primary recommenders, and make calls for you. Having a GPA that doesn't get your app ignored immediately is only half the battle, you need professors vouching for you to get your app attention. Otherwise you would need other factors that get interest: interesting pre-law school experiences, prestigious BigLaw or fellowship, FedSoc officer for those judges, Class Awards, military experience, MBB consulting, etc. A big thing on my circuit now is increased diversity efforts as well, so if you fit into that category, reach out to the affinity groups and see what they say.

You also have access to the alumni database, review who from your school is clerking where you would like to be and reach out.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure this varies by district, but anyone have a sense/guess of how many trials a district court judge is likely to have over the course of a year long clerkship?

I just finished clerking 20-21 in a major northeast federal district and my judge had four trials (mix of video and in person, mix of jury and bench, mix of civil and criminal). Senior judges in my Courthouse had zero.

But 2021-2023 clerks should expect more trials than that. COVID has caused a huge backlog. Now that I’m back in private practice I have matters that were fully prepped and ready for trial in early 2020 and they are expected to be tried early 2022 (omicron permitting). And the backlog just seems to grow.

[Anonymous User]

Also a CLS 3L:

Was wondering chances at circuit clerkship for 2023/24, particularly if I apply fairly broadly. I'm heading to biglaw next year but am hoping to get a clerkship before I start.

- Sec. Journal (ad board)
- 4 years work experience prior to law school/
- 3.83 GPA
- TA'd/RA'd
- No publication
- Don't have amazing prof. connects but building some currently.

Curious what people's thoughts are since haven't gotten much guidance on competitiveness. Are there any circuits totally out-of-play or others that will be easier?

Thanks!

Circuit clerk here. The GPA would keep you in the mix for basically any circuit, but we would need to know if that GPA is getting propped up by real courses or not. Getting Kent 1L would be a big bonus. Non-Kent 1L and a 2L and 3L filled with fluff seminars and externships would not make you a viable candidate.

If you TA'd/RA'd, reach out to those professors, they should be your primary recommenders, and make calls for you. Having a GPA that doesn't get your app ignored immediately is only half the battle, you need professors vouching for you to get your app attention. Otherwise you would need other factors that get interest: interesting pre-law school experiences, prestigious BigLaw or fellowship, FedSoc officer for those judges, Class Awards, military experience, MBB consulting, etc. A big thing on my circuit now is increased diversity efforts as well, so if you fit into that category, reach out to the affinity groups and see what they say.

You also have access to the alumni database, review who from your school is clerking where you would like to be and reach out.

I agree you are competitive for pretty much any circuit if you've taken a reasonably tough course load. The normal advice is 2 Black Letter classes per semester, but I think most judges just look at the transcript and ask "is this a serious course load?"

If you are looking for people to make moves in the clerkship game, I think taking a class with Richman is a good idea. I believe he is offering two next semester.

[Anonymous User]

+1 to the Richman recommendation; I didn't go to CLS but my judge seems to hold his input in particularly high regard.

[megjobethamy]

Also a CLS 3L:

Was wondering chances at circuit clerkship for 2023/24, particularly if I apply fairly broadly. I'm heading to biglaw next year but am hoping to get a clerkship before I start.

- Sec. Journal (ad board)
- 4 years work experience prior to law school/
- 3.83 GPA
- TA'd/RA'd
- No publication
- Don't have amazing prof. connects but building some currently.

Curious what people's thoughts are since haven't gotten much guidance on competitiveness. Are there any circuits totally out-of-play or others that will be easier?

Thanks!

I’m a CLS alum with comparable stats and an upcoming circuit clerkship on 3/4/5/6. Happy to talk more if you want to PM me.

[Anonymous User]

I know this is probably a petty, stupid question, but do judges care about legal writing class grades? I got a High Pass in Columbia's Legal Practice Workshop, which to my understanding is only given to one or two students in each class; kind of annoyed that it'll only show up as "HP" on the transcript, which seems kinda ambiguous to someone reading it.

[Anonymous User]

I know this is probably a petty, stupid question, but do judges care about legal writing class grades? I got a High Pass in Columbia's Legal Practice Workshop, which to my understanding is only given to one or two students in each class; kind of annoyed that it'll only show up as "HP" on the transcript, which seems kinda ambiguous to someone reading it.

It's given to one student per class (which means 6-8 are given per section), but no, we wouldn't care.

[Anonymous User]

I know this is probably a petty, stupid question, but do judges care about legal writing class grades? I got a High Pass in Columbia's Legal Practice Workshop, which to my understanding is only given to one or two students in each class; kind of annoyed that it'll only show up as "HP" on the transcript, which seems kinda ambiguous to someone reading it.

It's given to one student per class (which means 6-8 are given per section), but no, we wouldn't care.

Got it. Figured it wouldn't matter but wanted to make sure. I guess it's kind of a pointless metric when there are writing samples.

[Anonymous User]

I know this is probably a petty, stupid question, but do judges care about legal writing class grades? I got a High Pass in Columbia's Legal Practice Workshop, which to my understanding is only given to one or two students in each class; kind of annoyed that it'll only show up as "HP" on the transcript, which seems kinda ambiguous to someone reading it.

It's given to one student per class (which means 6-8 are given per section), but no, we wouldn't care.

Got it. Figured it wouldn't matter but wanted to make sure. I guess it's kind of a pointless metric when there are writing samples.

Are they really only given to one student per class? I thought the top 40% of students got them in LPW.

[Saami]

Do judges care if a resume goes over one page? I'm at a point where I'm leaving out a lot of my work history just to squeeze everything onto one page, and there's basically no white space left on it.