Top Law Schools

Okay, so I'm checking out some of these big law firm profiles on vault, and I'm trying to find any semblance of a work-life balance in these descriptions. So, for any of you who know (maybe you have worked at a firm or have attys in your family or something)... what does it mean when attys say they are occasionally pulling "all-nighters"? Does that mean they are just working really late (like till midnight or so?) Or does it really literally mean that they work all day, all night, and continue on to the next work day? /

chocolatechip wrote: it really literally mean that they work all day, all night, and continue on to the next work day? /

this, plus hookers and blow


...ok for once I'm not kidding either...

chocolatechip wrote:Okay, so I'm checking out some of these big law firm profiles on vault, and I'm trying to find any semblance of a work-life balance in these descriptions. So, for any of you who know (maybe you have worked at a firm or have attys in your family or something)... what does it mean when attys say they are occasionally pulling "all-nighters"? Does that mean they are just working really late (like till midnight or so?) Or does it really literally mean that they work all day, all night, and continue on to the next work day? /

Most people I know call 1hr of sleep or less an 'all nighter' at the office - so they would work something like 9am to 4am, get back to their apt at 4:30am, pass out while walking into their apartment and wake up on the floor at 5:30am, shower, shave, change and leave at 6am to get back to the office at 6:30am to begin a new day.

There are many variations of this - but I would think it is usually in an M&A type scenario when a deal is going down and the lawyers need to stitch together the legal framework to seal the deal.

chocolatechip wrote: Or does it really literally mean that they work all day, all night, and continue on to the next work day? /

This

biv0ns wrote:

chocolatechip wrote: it really literally mean that they work all day, all night, and continue on to the next work day? /

this, plus hookers and blow


...ok for once I'm not kidding either...

i hear this is not uncommon in the legal field. this also happens in advertising as well

Some firms have rooms that have roll-aways and I highly doubt they are for taking afternoon naps

i used to work at an ibank, and we did a lot of work with lawyers. an all-nighter basically means we don't go home, or we only go home to shower/change. it happens every now and then when a deal is closing or right before a roadshow. ive never stayed up all night at one of these, usually we just work til like 3am-ish, then people take turns finding a couch somewhere to pass out for a few hours, and resume working at 6-7am. the reason we dont just go home and sleep is because when random crap comes up we can literally get up and get to work immediately. also, it looks better to our bosses if we tell them we spent the night in the office.

i work at a law firm now in manhattan (not as a lawyer) and there's a few tax lawyers that sit across the hall from me who sleep in their offices for days at a time. ive come in at 8am to see them stumbling out of their office (sleeping bag on the floor) with a toothbrush and electric razor in their hands. but that being said, there's plenty of weeks when they only come in 3-4 days when theres nothing urgent happening.

it's not all bad.

hayman wrote:

biv0ns wrote:

chocolatechip wrote: it really literally mean that they work all day, all night, and continue on to the next work day? /

this, plus hookers and blow


...ok for once I'm not kidding either...

i hear this is not uncommon in the legal field. this also happens in advertising as well

And I-Banking, as a poster said

there's a few tax lawyers that sit across the hall from me who sleep in their offices for days at a time

Interesting. The tax lawyers at the firm where I'm working this summer say that of all lawyers at the firm they have the most 'normal' hours -- that all-nighters are not unheard of, but that they are quite rare. (As opposed to, e.g., M&A lawyers who have to pull all-nighters all the time.)

I've had plenty of all nighters and 80+ hour weeks in public accounting ... hence an interest in big law ... maybe I'll only have to work 75 hours / week

chadwick218 wrote:I've had plenty of all nighters and 80+ hour weeks in public accounting ... hence an interest in big law ... maybe I'll only have to work 75 hours / week

and plenty more hookers and blow. accountants don't know how to party

darn.. part of me was really hoping an "all-nighter" was just staying up really late... but sleeping for just a couple hours? I would need serious drugs for that. I don't think I'm functional on less than 4-5 hours..

biv0ns wrote:

chadwick218 wrote:I've had plenty of all nighters and 80+ hour weeks in public accounting ... hence an interest in big law ... maybe I'll only have to work 75 hours / week

and plenty more hookers and blow. accountants don't know how to party

maybe no hookers and blow, but plenty of gentlemen clubs and whiskey

The Atlantic recently reported on a study discussing how the trend of over work is starting to be seriously questioned in the investment banking field. Apparently people suffering from severe exhaustion do poor work and make more mistakes. (who knew?) So this might be changing.

I personally highly doubt that work life balance will really ever come to the super-competitive segment of the economy, i.e. consulting, top corporate leadership, i-banking, and big law. There's simply far too many people willing to make extreme sacrifices to get those jobs and be on top. It's a cultural issue.

chadwick218 wrote:I've had plenty of all nighters and 80+ hour weeks in public accounting ... hence an interest in big law ... maybe I'll only have to work 75 hours / week

or getting paid something that matches the hours worked

Snooker wrote:The Atlantic recently reported on a study discussing how the trend of over work is starting to be seriously questioned in the investment banking field. Apparently people suffering from severe exhaustion do poor work and make more mistakes. (who knew?) So this might be changing.

I personally highly doubt that work life balance will really ever come to the super-competitive segment of the economy, i.e. consulting, top corporate leadership, i-banking, and big law. There's simply far too many people willing to make extreme sacrifices to get those jobs and be on top. It's a cultural issue.

At least in biglaw you get to bill hours when you pull an allnighter.

I've often heard from friends who have worked or interned in investment banking that there's really no need for the 14-16 hour days they generally work. A lot of it is apparently twiddling their thumbs in the morning and afternoon until the boss goes home and leaves them with a pile of work that they can only finish by staying until 4am or whatever.

f0bolous wrote:

chadwick218 wrote:I've had plenty of all nighters and 80+ hour weeks in public accounting ... hence an interest in big law ... maybe I'll only have to work 75 hours / week

or getting paid something that matches the hours worked

hahaha, yeah, assuming a true 40 hour work week, I would make around $45/hour. My real hourly wage is closer to something like $30/hour.

NewHere wrote:

there's a few tax lawyers that sit across the hall from me who sleep in their offices for days at a time

Interesting. The tax lawyers at the firm where I'm working this summer say that of all lawyers at the firm they have the most 'normal' hours -- that all-nighters are not unheard of, but that they are quite rare. (As opposed to, e.g., M&A lawyers who have to pull all-nighters all the time.)

M&A?

Im midlaw in NY.. First Year associate.. this week...
Mon 7:30am to 7:45pm
Tues 915sm to 7pm
Wed 8:45am to 645pm
Thur 9am to 6:30pm
Fri 9am to 6:30pm (emails back and forth with firm managing partner all night and into saturday morning...)
Saturday 12:30pm to 9ish probably not sure yet...
Sunday 9am to 1pm (im going to my friend's wedding in Philly no matter what).

Total compensation 70k or so.. lots of experience though, etc..

In short, this career is not for everyone.. Make sure you want to do it. This is by far not the worst week I've had, but is pretty close to typical. This also fails to factor in the work I tend to do or at least plan out at home and the non-stop responding to the f$%%&^# blackberry

JPeavy44 wrote:M&A?

Mergers and Acquisitions.

Frb43 wrote:

JPeavy44 wrote:M&A?

Mergers and Acquisitions.

Oh.. I thought it was mistakes and accidents?

I once asked a partner at a DC BigLaw firm if they really pull all-nighters like I'd heard. He assured me that every now and then (when they go to trial) they'll either rent out a floor at a hotel or sleep in the office on a cot or a couch, but there would never be a case where you work all through the night and the next day. It's not so much a matter of health (that matters some), but rather that they don't want you doing horrible work during really important times.

Basically, yes firms will work you to the ground, but never so much that it starts to seriously affect your work, because that's really bad for them.

reasonable_man wrote:Im midlaw in NY.. First Year associate.. this week...
Mon 7:30am to 7:45pm
Tues 915sm to 7pm
Wed 8:45am to 645pm
Thur 9am to 6:30pm
Fri 9am to 6:30pm (emails back and forth with firm managing partner all night and into saturday morning...)
Saturday 12:30pm to 9ish probably not sure yet...
Sunday 9am to 1pm (im going to my friend's wedding in Philly no matter what).

Total compensation 70k or so.. lots of experience though, etc..

In short, this career is not for everyone.. Make sure you want to do it. This is by far not the worst week I've had, but is pretty close to typical. This also fails to factor in the work I tend to do or at least plan out at home and the non-stop responding to the f$%%&^# blackberry

what kind of law do you do?

the firm that I am going to work with said that the hours are pretty normal most of the time (9-6), but most people stay at office after 6, and there were times when people literally pulled 'all-nighters' ...

another thing: she said all workers check emails outside office hours. I find this very cool. I really hate the idea that people actually bother to check emails but never respond to them 'cos it's past office-hours (like the people at an administrative office where I worked for a short while)

biv0ns wrote:

reasonable_man wrote:Im midlaw in NY.. First Year associate.. this week...
Mon 7:30am to 7:45pm
Tues 915sm to 7pm
Wed 8:45am to 645pm
Thur 9am to 6:30pm
Fri 9am to 6:30pm (emails back and forth with firm managing partner all night and into saturday morning...)
Saturday 12:30pm to 9ish probably not sure yet...
Sunday 9am to 1pm (im going to my friend's wedding in Philly no matter what).

Total compensation 70k or so.. lots of experience though, etc..

In short, this career is not for everyone.. Make sure you want to do it. This is by far not the worst week I've had, but is pretty close to typical. This also fails to factor in the work I tend to do or at least plan out at home and the non-stop responding to the f$%%&^# blackberry

what kind of law do you do?

General Commercial litigation
Mass toxic tort
products liability
catostrophic tort defense (really bad construction accidents, high dollar commerical auto exposure)
Im also sort of the "go to" guy for federal cases of any variety