1L Summer advice? Judicial vs SEC Forum

[kate460]

Looking for advice on what to do with my 1L summer because I only have three days to make a decision. For context, I am at a lower T14 with good grades and planning on going through OCI to BigLaw, but I haven't decided between litigation and transactional.

Here are my offers, all of which are unpaid positions:
SEC Honors Program - Enforcement Division (DC)
SEC Honors Program - Office of International Affairs (DC)
Judicial Externship - N.D. Cal. (SF)
Judicial Externship - D.D.C. (DC)

Any input would be appreciated. OCS at my school told me I can't go wrong, but I'm struggling to decide where I will get the most substantive experience and be able to enjoy my summer. For OCI, I am targeting DC and SF markets, so I would be doing some private sector networking in either location this summer. I wouldn't have to pay rent in SF, but would spend 3hrs/day and substantial money commuting, so it almost balances out. Has anyone done the SEC 1L program with either of these offices or an externship at these district courts?

Thanks!

[FND]

SEC by a mile.

Everyone does Judicial. To quote one hiring partner "everyone does a clerkship. I don't know what it means, but everyone does it".
(the reason he says he doesn't know what it means is that what a 1L clerk does varies significantly from judge to judge)

Basically, with SEC you'll stand out, and it'll give you a real talking point during OCI/EIW (or whatever it's called at your school). It's especially valuable if you want to go into corporate, but even if you're going lit, it's a definite plus over everyone doing a judicial clerkship, which could be as useless as fetching coffee for the Judge and making copies for the real clerks.

Personally, I'd choose SEC - Enforcement, because it's easy to spin for any job interview, but the office of international affairs will probably be more interesting

[Libya]

SEC and it’s not even close

[Wild Card]

I did SEC Enforcement in New York, and I had a great time because I had a great mentor who tried his best to get me involved in everything. Many of my colleagues didn't have anywhere as good a supervisor, so they had a much less positive experience.

I would choose a Judicial Externship if I were in your situation: however, you do have to find out more about the judge you'd be working for--what he'll actually have you doing. That way, you know exactly what you'll be getting into, how substantive an experience you'll have.

(I disagree that "everyone" does a judicial externship. I'm under the impression that those are extremely selective and each judge hires only one or two interns per season. SEC Enforcement New York hires 32 1Ls each summer: does this mean "everyone" does the SEC?)

(SEC certainly will be more fun, because it's a huge agency with plenty of interns and lawyers.)

[Pennoyer v. Meh]

I'll also weigh in in favor of the judicial externship. They're extremely useful if you want to get a clerkship after graduating, and will also be helpful (to the extent anything is) during OCI.

[nixy]

I agree that lots of people do judicial externships and that they're not in and of themselves very prestigious. They also don't really have much influence on getting a post-grad clerkship at all, I don't think (I don't know any judge who cares if an applicant has done a judicial externship, and so many do that it doesn't set anyone apart).

I think value does come down to the specific experience: lots of judges don't have much to do with their 1L externs, leaving them to the clerks to handle. If you do get to know the judge personally and get a good mentor, that can be helpful for future employment generally and possibly clerkships more specifically. But you may not get that experience. It's really about the judge more than just having an externship.

I also think that for OCI the only real goal is to have something legal you can talk about in interviews - whether that's a judicial internship or the SEC doesn't actually matter at all.

That's not to say SEC is the only way to go - OP, really, I think there are reasonable arguments for any of your options, and none of them is so clearly ahead of the others for future employment purposes that they're the obvious choice, so you should pick whichever appeals to you more, even if that's just based on the location or factors like the commute (for instance, personally I'd rather put the money toward rent in DC than kill 3 hours of my day commuting all summer, but that's completely subjective). My impression from what other people have said is that Enforcement is the most interesting/substantive section in the SEC, but I don't have any personal experience to back that up, and if you liked the Office of Intl Affairs better, that's cool too.

I guess the only other point I'd make is depending on where your T14 is, think about whether you'd have the opportunity to do any of these during the school year instead (so for instance if you're not actually going to school in DC it might make sense to do the SEC because you can probably find a judge in your law school area to intern for during the school year but you probably can't intern for the SEC during the school year). Also, if you do think you might want to work for the feds in the future, they do tend to like to see some kind of student experience with the feds on your resume.

But really in the end, there isn't a clear best answer, and you just want to avoid taking the worst choice, and I don't think any of them are a worst choice.

[cavalier1138]

Yeah, I don't know where people are getting the idea that summer externships with judges are (a) selective or (b) helpful for clerkships. Pretty much anyone can get one, and it won't even help you get a clerkship with that judge unless you also have the grades/school pedigree.

[powerwhee]

The value of a 1L Externship depends on your Judge, and I think this factor controls the analysis in this context. Some judges let interns draft dispositive orders, which is an invaluable experience; others direct Interns to cite check all day.

I would suggest that if your Judge gives you substantive writing assignments, then a 1L Judicial Externship is substantially similar to a Clerkship, in which case the Judicial Internship is probably more valuable than any BigFed Agency Internship for that reason alone. Gaining Clerkship skills earlier than most is invaluable.

[nixy]

I think the above is overstating things. I interned for judges and drafted some substantive stuff, but still had to learn how to clerk when I actually clerked. Plus the people reviewing your resume in future won’t know which kind of internship you had, and much of the value of a law school experience is what it signals on your resume. For some reviewers, the federal experience will be more valuable.

[kate460]

Thanks for the advice, all. I accepted the SEC Enforcement. Hoping it was the right choice!