Confused about 1L curve for individual class vs. class GPA Forum

[JoblessAndHopeless]

My school handbook says all 1L classes with 21 or more students (these would be all the core classes) must be curved to a median of B (3.0). For other classes (I'm sure these are LW classes), professors have discretion to do whatever they want.

So does this mean the class GPA is more or less curved to a median of 3.0? Do the individual class curve and whole 1L class GPA curve correlate for ranking purposes?

[nixy]

Grades are curved by individual class. Everyone’s GPAs are then put in order. There’s no manipulation of the class GPA as a whole. It will probably look roughly like the curve for the curved 1L classes unless LRW profs are crazy graders and the courses are heavily weighted.

[cavalier1138]

If the guidelines are that loose, I could actually see the overall curve differing dramatically from the individual class curve. Since the only rule is that the median for the class is 3.0, that could result in classes with a single B and equal numbers of higher and lower grades, classes with only a handful of non-B grades, classes with no grades below a B, etc.

[JoblessAndHopeless]

Grades are curved by individual class. Everyone’s GPAs are then put in order. There’s no manipulation of the class GPA as a whole. It will probably look roughly like the curve for the curved 1L classes unless LRW profs are crazy graders and the courses are heavily weighted.

So in a school with individual class curve to a B, do whole class GPA usually end up around a median of 3.0?

[nixy]

Grades are curved by individual class. Everyone’s GPAs are then put in order. There’s no manipulation of the class GPA as a whole. It will probably look roughly like the curve for the curved 1L classes unless LRW profs are crazy graders and the courses are heavily weighted.

So in a school with individual class curve to a B, do whole class GPA usually end up around a median of 3.0?

Like cavalier said, it depends on how profs grade.

If what you really want to know is where you personally fall, you’ll have to wait till your school releases rankings. There’s no way to guesstimate just based on your own GPA and the 3.0 number.

[JoblessAndHopeless]

Grades are curved by individual class. Everyone’s GPAs are then put in order. There’s no manipulation of the class GPA as a whole. It will probably look roughly like the curve for the curved 1L classes unless LRW profs are crazy graders and the courses are heavily weighted.

So in a school with individual class curve to a B, do whole class GPA usually end up around a median of 3.0?

Like cavalier said, it depends on how profs grade.

If what you really want to know is where you personally fall, you’ll have to wait till your school releases rankings. There’s no way to guesstimate just based on your own GPA and the 3.0 number.

Okay good to know. I got a 3.326 on the first semester grades (A-, B+, B+, B) at a borderline T1/T2 state school, and honestly pretty crushed. I feel even worse after I overheard a couple of my classmates said they got all A's.

[tls_toddy]

Are you sure the school requires a MEDIAN of B as opposed to a MEAN of B? Because yes, if the only restraint is a MEDIAN of B, then the individual class curves can vary wildly and the 1L class curve as a whole is basically unpredictable. But I really doubt this is a case - a professor could give out, e.g., 25Bs and 24 As and meet the B median requirement. Another could give 24Cs or Ds and 25Bs.

But if the avg GPA (i.e., mean) for each individual 1L class needs to be a 3.0, then the avg of all 1L students' overall GPAs will also be a 3.0 (even if the professors grade wildly differently while still maintaining that 3.0 mean).

[JoblessAndHopeless]

Are you sure the school requires a MEDIAN of B as opposed to a MEAN of B? Because yes, if the only restraint is a MEDIAN of B, then the individual class curves can vary wildly and the 1L class curve as a whole is basically unpredictable. But I really doubt this is a case - a professor could give out, e.g., 25Bs and 24 As and meet the B median requirement.

But if the avg GPA (i.e., mean) for each individual 1L class needs to be a 3.0, then the avg of all 1L students' overall GPAs will also be a 3.0 (even if the professors grade wildly differently while still maintaining that 3.0 mean).

I looked at the student handbook again, and it definitely says MEDIAN of B, and professors must give a certain percentage of that course some sort of A's and certain percentage some sort of C's.

My contracts professor from first semester released the grade distribution for the class, and it looks pretty evenly distributed on a bell curve, with the most common grades being B, and sloping down towards either end at A's and C's.

[nixy]

OP, you’re above median in 3 out of 4 classes, that’s very decent. The vast majority of your classmates did not get all As. My school used to be on a 3.0 curve, and you’d have probably been in the top quarter to third.

(And I’m pretty sure most law schools curve to the median, not the mean. One of my classmates complained about the grading in one of our 1L classes for exactly the reason that grades could vary by prof and one of our profs gave tons of Bs and very very few higher and lower grades, and he felt cheated of his rightful A.)

[tls_toddy]

Are you sure the school requires a MEDIAN of B as opposed to a MEAN of B? Because yes, if the only restraint is a MEDIAN of B, then the individual class curves can vary wildly and the 1L class curve as a whole is basically unpredictable. But I really doubt this is a case - a professor could give out, e.g., 25Bs and 24 As and meet the B median requirement.

But if the avg GPA (i.e., mean) for each individual 1L class needs to be a 3.0, then the avg of all 1L students' overall GPAs will also be a 3.0 (even if the professors grade wildly differently while still maintaining that 3.0 mean).

I looked at the student handbook again, and it definitely says MEDIAN of B, and professors must give a certain percentage of that course some sort of A's and certain percentage some sort of C's.

My contracts professor from first semester released the grade distribution for the class, and it looks pretty evenly distributed on a bell curve, with the most common grades being B, and sloping down towards either end at A's and C's.

Yikes at that certain percentage some sort of Cs. Well I'm glad your contracts professor stuck to mostly a bell curve - that is typical for 1L classes. They will be pretty flat at like a B (or B+ depending on the school) and sort of drop off at either end.

[tls_toddy]

OP, you’re above median in 3 out of 4 classes, that’s very decent. The vast majority of your classmates did not get all As. My school used to be on a 3.0 curve, and you’d have probably been in the top quarter to third.

(And I’m pretty sure most law schools curve to the median, not the mean. One of my classmates complained about the grading in one of our 1L classes for exactly the reason that grades could vary by prof and one of our profs gave tons of Bs and very very few higher and lower grades, and he felt cheated of his rightful A.)

Ah that's interesting good to know. Regarding your friend's complaints, that could still happen at school that curves to a mean/average of B and not just the median (e.g., A professor could give out three Bs, or just 1B, a B- and a B+, or just 1B, an A, and a C, and all of those will have a B mean).

My school designates percentage ranges for each grade - like "10%-12% must be As, 12%-15% A-..." etc. and upperclassmen professors have more leeway to deviate from those ranges. But my 1L courses at another school required a 3.3 average (median also ended up being around 3.3, but average in one class ended up being a 3.4 after professor asked permission to give out more As/A-s I think). Totally possible I'm wrong though and it was median the whole time.

[cavalier1138]

OP, can you post the actual policy? There's a wide gulf between the only requirement being a 3.0 median and professors being given specific guidelines on what percentage of grades can be As, Bs, Cs, etc.

[JoblessAndHopeless]

OP, can you post the actual policy? There's a wide gulf between the only requirement being a 3.0 median and professors being given specific guidelines on what percentage of grades can be As, Bs, Cs, etc.

It says for class of more than 21 people, professors must have a median of B. All other classes, professors have discretion to curve or not.

There must be 10-25% of A's and A-'s, and at least 10% must be C+ and lower.

That's the whole policy.

[JoblessAndHopeless]

OP, you’re above median in 3 out of 4 classes, that’s very decent. The vast majority of your classmates did not get all As. My school used to be on a 3.0 curve, and you’d have probably been in the top quarter to third.

(And I’m pretty sure most law schools curve to the median, not the mean. One of my classmates complained about the grading in one of our 1L classes for exactly the reason that grades could vary by prof and one of our profs gave tons of Bs and very very few higher and lower grades, and he felt cheated of his rightful A.)

Okay, thank you! That is good to know. I'd be happy with top third of class, so hopefully you're correct and I am in it.
I'll try even harder this spring semester.

[FND]

It says for class of more than 21 people, professors must have a median of B. All other classes, professors have discretion to curve or not.

There must be 10-25% of A's and A-'s, and at least 10% must be C+ and lower.

That's the whole policy.

Ok, based on that, it's time for some distribution patterns, for a class of 21.

The biggest bell curve:
2 As and A-s
5 B+
7 B
5 B-
2 C+ and C

Flattest distribution:
5 As and A-
5 B+
6 B
5 B-
5 C+ and C

Uneven curve (feel free to invert):
4 As and A-
4 B+
4 B
7 C-
2 C+ and C