Planet Law School/Law School Confidential/Getting to Maybe Forum

[stuffedburrito]

I am reading PLS right now but my question is, should I bother reading the other two? Is it to my advantage to read and own all three, which would be great guides for me throughout law school (each teaching me different perspectives of excelling in law school)?

I am actually thinking about buying three:

PLS + LSC to prepare for the overall experience and understanding of law school; and
GTM to prepare for exams.

Good move, or waste of valuable time?

[nellie06]

Read chptr 17 of pls. Do the readings it suggests. That's really the only benefit of the book that I saw.

[orangeswarm]

Read chptr 17 of pls. Do the readings it suggests. That's really the only benefit of the book that I saw.

I thought you were an 0L nellie?

As to PLS, I didn't read it so I don't have an opinion. I read LSC and Getting to Maybe. If I were you, I'd mark LSC off the list. It won't really provide you with any useful information for 1L (except maybe the multicolor book briefing method which I can describe to you in a paragraph). Getting to maybe is a good read and I would recommend reading it before 1L and then skim back over it about a month before finals.

[lwpat]

Save your money and get Leews or some of the books by John Delaney.

[themillsman22]

Save your money and get Leews or some of the books by John Delaney.

I believe PLS actually recommends both. Delaney writes rather informatively but easy to read. I concur with that endorsement.

[cej13]

For LSC the following chapters and pages contain some really good tips:

Chapter 6 pg. 106 --> Checking in with the Registrar

All of Chapter 8: In my opinion, thus far the most important chapter I've read.

More to come soon.....

[philo-sophia]

Read chptr 17 of pls. Do the readings it suggests. That's really the only benefit of the book that I saw.

I tend to agree. I think PLS is helpful on a cursory level, but (especially since it's like 900 pgs) you need to skim quickly and pull out the useful advice from the cynical, and off-point digressions without which the book would be 200 pgs max. That said, i'm pretty grateful for that list of readings and prescribed schedule b/c i never would've figured out a decently organized schedule of my own. So far, the books he's recommended (Aspen E&E's and Glannon's books) seem really helpful.

Anyone else doing the prescribed "3 month" prep schedule?

[TTT-LS]

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[nonunique]

Unless this so-called "prep schedule" centers on drinking heavily, going on vacation, seeing lots of friends, getting fit, playing tons of xbox, gambling occasionally, and generally enjoying freedom, it is invalid.

THE SHORT MESSAGE FOR YOUR GUNNERIFIC 0Ls: DON'T DO THIS "PREP" CRAP. NOBODY WILL BE IMPRESSED, AND YOU WON'T "GET AHEAD" AS A RESULT EITHER. BIGGEST WASTE OF TIME EVER...

Hugs,

Your Pal, TTT-LS.

TITMFCR

[Corsair]

..

[sibarg2]

U still have time to play X-Box in law school!? Honestly, I wasn't planning on leaving mine behind but I'm trying to figure out when I'll be able to fry all my friend back home online...

[LoseItToMe]

drinking heavily, going on vacation, seeing lots of friends, getting fit, playing tons of xbox, gambling occasionally, and generally enjoying freedom

i'll largely be following ^this routine, but do you think even skimming over some E&Es is a waste?

[stuffedburrito]

drinking heavily, going on vacation, seeing lots of friends, getting fit, playing tons of xbox, gambling occasionally, and generally enjoying freedom

i'll largely be following ^this routine, but do you think even skimming over some E&Es is a waste?

I don't think ANY 0L prep, especially during the summer before the start of law school, is a waste. Getting a feel for the subjects is the main idea in "prepping." Although I agree that carefully reading the entire, or even most, of the E&Es would be tiring, time-consuming, and a bit of a waste of your last summer of freedom, I think skimming through it and familiarizing yourself with the legal language is very helpful. Law school begins at a fast, competitive pace (duh), and there's no harm in getting a head start. I am attending the CLEO 6-week Summer Institute, so I will not be following PLS' prep schedule.

[philo-sophia]

^^i agree. To those of you who say it's better to spend your summer just having fun, i see your point. It's a judgment call and you decided you value that more than what you think you'll get out of preparing. But to say prepping is a "complete waste of time" is an absolute absurdity.

Battery = contact that is intentional and [harmful or offensive]

Contact = physical or indirectly physical touch (through an implement such as a stick, throwing a rock, leaving a trap, secretly spiking someone’s drink, etc)

Intent = either action carried out for the purpose of causing the harmful contact or with substantial certainty that such contact will occur. Substantial Certainty constitutes Intent even if the consequence is not desired.

“Offensive” = “offends a reasonable person’s sense of personal dignity (Second Restatement). Reasonable person standard trumps intent in terms of deeming a contact as offensive (i.e. if the act was intended, it doesn’t matter if the defendant intended it to be offensive…reasonable person standard applies).

Does one need to show up this fall having already memorized that? Absolutely not. Does one's having memorized that, and the same sorts of black letter memorization for all sorts of other remedies guarantee that one will do well? Absolutely not.

But to say that it wouldn't be at all helpful to arrive having gotten some of the grunt work memorization out of the way (particularly given the time pressure once school starts), and having familiarized oneself with some of the language conventions and basic legal mechanics ahead of time, and to say that it would not be at all helpful to have begun thinking through some hypotheticals and comparing one's answers to ideal answers seems a bit far fetched.

[Ipsa Dixit]

IMO, "prepping" just wouldn't be helpful enough to bother spending time on it. Want a broad overview? Skim wikipedia. I wouldn't do much more than that.

Once you start school, pick up Getting to Maybe and just read it during the semester. It will help with understanding exams and I think may be more helpful once you are in school than before, but YMMV.

Use supplements like E&E and Understanding once you are in school as you need them. You will not need them for every concept.

[iwasgoingtobeasenator]

I would fear burning out before finals if I were starting to prep before law school. If I were doing all of the crazy shit everyone advises, I'd probably go insane and drop the ball just when I need to focus most.

I am definitely taking the "drink, enjoy life, play xbox, relax" route. I'll work as hard as anyone when classes start, but until then my life is mine.

[chris0805]

What I think the prepping 0Ls are missing is that they won't be taking Torts or Crim law next year. They will be taking Torts with Professor X and Crim Law with professor Y.

My Crim law class covered acts, mental states, attempts, complicity, and homicide.... that's it. We covered homicide in perhaps more depth than anyone I've talked to at any law school... but no rape,no assault, no arson, no robbery, no drugs. You could spend your summer reading the whole E&E and yes, the vast majority of it would have been a waste for my class.

And don't even get me started on torts .

Not only that, you won't remember it, not in a way that will help you. That's why I'm outlining property right now... because I have NO IDEA what I read, highlighted, and took notes on back at the beginning of March. I could have read up on it in July, but I doubt that would have helped me.

If you're set on doing it, go for it. For some people, it eases the stress, and for others, it's what they would genuinely want to do with their time. As I finish my 1L year, however, I can't imagine how summer prep would have been at all useful to me.

[nonunique]

I believe I see a trend here...

1Ls: don't bother, it will be of no help.

0Ls: don't tell me what helps and what doesn't. It will obviously help ME. I'll be READY FOR CLASS!

I'm no expert on weight of authority, but methinks one position has some advantage.

[TTT-LS]

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[stuffedburrito]

The point is not that "preparing" isn't utterly worthless. Surely there is some marginal benefit. Rather, the point is that it is a net negative proposition, and a very large net negative at that. What you gain in terms of small knowledge, you lose in terms of (1) freedom/fun/relaxation, (2) money/time, (3) energy and tolerance for law study at a critical time in the semester -- exams. If you're too short-sighted to comprehend that, fine, but it is your classmates -- the ones at the bar while you're reading Glannon this summer -- who will have the last laugh.

You don't necessarily need to sacrifice your freedom during the last real summer break of your life as you "prepare" for 1L. The point is that there is no harm in having a bit of knowledge of the subjects that you will study during 1L. Wouldn't you want to get used to the legal language and the material that you will need to eventually master (even if your prof will not teach a particular subject (e.g. rape), it will benefit you if you get a feel for how to read and comprehend subjects in law)? Many law students get behind during 1L (especially during the 1st semester) because they have a difficult time adapting to the language and subject of law. So it is valuable for some - if not most - students to become familiar with the study of law by "prepping."

[chris0805]

Many law students get behind during 1L (especially during the 1st semester) because they have a difficult time adapting to the language and subject of law.

I feel like this gets overstated. Most students don't struggle with core concepts. They are more confused as to how their profs want them to explain these concepts on an exam, and, to some extent, how to do that better than their friends sitting two seats over.

it will benefit you if you get a feel for how to read and comprehend subjects in law

This may or may not be true, but you won't get a feel for reading and comprehending subjects in law by reading supplements. Supplements take difficult legal language, the concepts they describe, and rewrite them in plain English. That's what makes them so useful to law students. You learn the topic without having to deal with the legal language.

Like I said earlier, I think prepping can play an important role in easing the stress for incoming 1Ls. I'm just urging you to be VERY CAREFUL not to overdo it. You need to come into the first semester with a TON of energy and excitement if you want to last the whole year. 1L is NOT a sprint to see who gets their first. It's a Marathon. People don't struggle because there's not enough time. People struggle because they get burnt out. Keeping that in mind, learning topics over the summer that you won't remember in November can be a potentail harm. You're not as fresh and psyched to start LS as you could have been, AND you didn't get any real potential gain.

[stuffedburrito]

AND you didn't get any real potential gain.

I think that varies case by case, which is essentially the conclusion that is reached here. Each student has his/her own limitations/expectations/intelligence/way of doing things. There is no right or wrong answer as to whether to prepare during the summer. So as a cautionary note, each person should take each advice here with a grain of salt. Apply only what makes you feel comfortable and what might contribute to your success. The best, most general advice is to learn and apply the law the best way possible for YOU, whether it is chilling in the summer to keep you fresh, or preparing a little before 1L. I have no doubt that all of us here will do well in law school, as long as we continue our enthusiasm.

[chris0805]

Fair enough, I'm just trying to say I haven't met anyone in my 1L class who either
(1) wishes they had prepped
or
(2) is glad that they did.

(* And I think the other 1Ls are essentially saying the same thing)

It's true though... that might not be a representative sample. Also, I'm sure you'll do fine in law school either way. We're just trying to convince you not to do anymore work than you'll already have to. Good luck with your summer and 1L.

[nonunique]

Fair enough, I'm just trying to say I haven't met anyone in my 1L class who either
(1) wishes they had prepped
or
(2) is glad that they did.

(* And I think the other 1Ls are essentially saying the same thing)

TITMFCR. Skim the E&E, that is the only level of familiarity that will be helpful (and marginally so at that)...AND that will assuage your fears.

[nonunique]

I estimated it as closer to a metric shit-ton.