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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:51 am
by z0mbiecatz1234
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Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:19 pm
by Loquitur Res
You could finish up your degree and go into teaching. I know a lawyer that stopped practicing after a couple years because she hated it. Went into teaching high school. With a JD she automatically started at the top of the pay scale and makes as much as experienced state government attorneys (she teaching English too). Not glamorous, but she is happy, gets out at 3pm, and gets summers and all holidays off. I would probably have different advice if you (a) had not already completed your first year, or (b) didn't have a full scholarship.
Also, not all law jobs are soul sucking. I did civil rights work this summer with some incredibly talented attorneys who are happy, married, kids, go home at 5pm most days, etc.
Also, find better mentors at school. I feel like many of my professors are more than happy to give uplifting advice. But some are either hard asses or just bad (awkward) at giving advice. Try reaching out to someone else.
Try yoga or some other physical activity.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:45 pm
by Johann
you're probably pot committed at this point. i didnt read the whole post, but with loan repayment options where they are, it's best to finish out the degree and try to find your niche in govt or a JD advantage role.
despite what this board thinks, there are plenty of JD advantage jobs available.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:08 pm
by BasilHallward
JohannDeMann wrote:you're probably pot committed at this point. i didnt read the whole post, but with loan repayment options where they are, it's best to finish out the degree and try to find your niche in govt or a JD advantage role.
despite what this board thinks, there are plenty of JD advantage jobs available.
Getting the popcorn ready.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:36 pm
by encore1101
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z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:
Then I got to thinking about how unhealthy the legal profession is. Alcoholism, suicide, depression, anxiety run rampant. As law students, and eventually lawyers, we are encouraged to take on as much as we possibly can, keep our phones on us at all hours of the day, work as many hours as you can without sleep, the list goes on. I feel like I'm trapped in a profession that could not care less about mental health and it's really making me question why I'm here. Where others see potential for a high-paying dream job, I see a soul-sucking job that's more like having two jobs than one. Is it worth trading happiness and work-life balance to call yourself a lawyer?
Not all lawyer jobs are like this. I work 9-5, own a house, see my family every evening and weekends. Once I leave the office, I mentally leave the office. Find a nice government job.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:37 pm
by pancakes3
sounds like you're just having a bad day, but it also sounds you have a penchant for the melodramatic.
True, TLS skews depressed because (1) it's population is disproportionately high of BL juniors with massive debt; (2) it's the internet where many of us come find a mental release that we might not have otherwise in real life (like this thread); and (3) misery loves company.
However, you're also an adult and almost halfway through with law school. You know what jobs are out there and roughly how much stress each entails. You're also ostensibly an adult and know how much stress you can handle. There's really nothing significantly unique in law that other high-stress careers don't also have to deal with. Doctors have to face death on a daily basis. If you think you're selling your soul in biglaw, go talk to an ibanker. And if you think it's a rat race in law school, you should check out how much of a bitchfest a PhD program is, and beyond when you're trying to secure tenure.
Sorry but them's the facts.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:11 pm
by z0mbiecatz1234
pancakes3 wrote:Doctors have to face death on a daily basis.
It's kind of funny you use the doctor example because I spoke with an attorney last year who wished she had become a doctor because the stress is "in the moment" and not perpetual like it feels for lawyers, her words not mine. Melodramatic? Maybe sometimes, although I quibble with the idea of calling a person melodramatic because they strongly dislike law school since many people like that exist, but my point about high rates of suicide, depression, and alcoholism are not simply my opinions or dramatics; those
are facts. Look at any study that seeks to find the "happiest" profession and the most miserable. It also isn't my opinion that many lawyers lack a work-life balance of any sort. There are some that do, but plenty I have talked to (even non-BL) tell me how there are "days, weeks, months, even years" where they don't sleep much because of important cases, a trial, etc.
I disagree that there is nothing unique to the stress of lawyers that one will not find elsewhere, which is why I suspect lawyers are often so miserable, but to each his own.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:13 pm
by z0mbiecatz1234
Thank you all for the responses. Government work looks more and more appealing. I do still wish I had gone into teaching, but I guess it isn't too late if I did change my mind.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:35 pm
by rpupkin
pancakes3 wrote:sounds like you're just having a bad day, but it also sounds you have a penchant for the melodramatic.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:08 pm
by z0mbiecatz1234
rpupkin wrote:pancakes3 wrote:sounds like you're just having a bad day, but it also sounds you have a penchant for the melodramatic.
LOL at me thinking TLSers would lend support to a post like this.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:12 pm
by rpupkin
z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:pancakes3 wrote:sounds like you're just having a bad day, but it also sounds you have a penchant for the melodramatic.
LOL at me thinking TLSers would lend support to a post like this.
Why are you surprised? After all, we're part of this horrible profession that is conspiring to make you miserable.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:13 pm
by z0mbiecatz1234
rpupkin wrote:z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:pancakes3 wrote:sounds like you're just having a bad day, but it also sounds you have a penchant for the melodramatic.
LOL at me thinking TLSers would lend support to a post like this.
Why are you surprised? After all, we're part of this horrible profession that is conspiring to make you miserable.
I am just not sure why people can't talk about real problems in the profession without getting so defensive. I never said anything about "conspiring." I do think there are problems that should be solved. I never said "All you TLSers are the reason law school sucks!"
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:16 pm
by rpupkin
z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:pancakes3 wrote:sounds like you're just having a bad day, but it also sounds you have a penchant for the melodramatic.
LOL at me thinking TLSers would lend support to a post like this.
Why are you surprised? After all, we're part of this horrible profession that is conspiring to make you miserable.
I am just not sure why people can't talk about real problems in the profession without getting so defensive. I never said anything about "conspiring." I do think there are problems that should be solved. I never said "All you TLSers are the reason law school sucks!"
Relax--I was just joking.
And do you really not see the truth in pancake3's suggestion that you have a penchant for the melodramatic? In all seriousness, I can see why the professor responded to you as he did.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:19 pm
by z0mbiecatz1234
rpupkin wrote:z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:pancakes3 wrote:sounds like you're just having a bad day, but it also sounds you have a penchant for the melodramatic.
LOL at me thinking TLSers would lend support to a post like this.
Why are you surprised? After all, we're part of this horrible profession that is conspiring to make you miserable.
I am just not sure why people can't talk about real problems in the profession without getting so defensive. I never said anything about "conspiring." I do think there are problems that should be solved. I never said "All you TLSers are the reason law school sucks!"
Relax--I was just joking.
And do you really not see the truth in pancake3's suggestion that you have a penchant for the melodramatic? In all seriousness, I can see why the professor responded to you as he did.
Jokes don't transfer particularly well over the Internet on a website where people are known for jerky comments. Everyone can be dramatic, but I usually don't attribute the fact that I have depression and anxiety to the fact that I'm dramatic.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:44 pm
by pancakes3
z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:rpupkin wrote:pancakes3 wrote:sounds like you're just having a bad day, but it also sounds you have a penchant for the melodramatic.
LOL at me thinking TLSers would lend support to a post like this.
Why are you surprised? After all, we're part of this horrible profession that is conspiring to make you miserable.
I am just not sure why people can't talk about real problems in the profession without getting so defensive. I never said anything about "conspiring." I do think there are problems that should be solved. I never said "All you TLSers are the reason law school sucks!"
Relax--I was just joking.
And do you really not see the truth in pancake3's suggestion that you have a penchant for the melodramatic? In all seriousness, I can see why the professor responded to you as he did.
Jokes don't transfer particularly well over the Internet on a website where people are known for jerky comments. Everyone can be dramatic, but I usually don't attribute the fact that I have depression and anxiety to the fact that I'm dramatic.
maybe you don't have a penchant for the melodramatic but you do seem to have a penchant to hear what you want to hear.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:52 pm
by z0mbiecatz1234
pancakes3 wrote:maybe you don't have a penchant for the melodramatic but you do seem to have a penchant to hear what you want to hear.
Fair enough.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:16 pm
by jbagelboy
Lol
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:25 pm
by PeanutsNJam
z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:It's kind of funny you use the doctor example because I spoke with an attorney last year who wished she had become a doctor because the stress is "in the moment" and not perpetual like it feels for lawyers, her words not mine.
Lol at lawyers who think their job is objectively the shittiest of all the 6 fig+ jobs and know exactly what it's like to do other jobs. The stress is pretty fucking perpetual when you work biglaw hours, except instead of some merger deal, you have human lives in your hands and one mistake can kill somebody, and you're working with idiosyncratic human bodies which are 987876x more complex than some loan amendment that you can copy paste.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:33 pm
by Hikikomorist
PeanutsNJam wrote:z0mbiecatz1234 wrote:It's kind of funny you use the doctor example because I spoke with an attorney last year who wished she had become a doctor because the stress is "in the moment" and not perpetual like it feels for lawyers, her words not mine.
Lol at lawyers who think their job is objectively the shittiest of all the 6 fig+ jobs and know exactly what it's like to do other jobs. The stress is pretty fucking perpetual when you work biglaw hours, except instead of some merger deal, you have human lives in your hands and one mistake can kill somebody, and you're working with idiosyncratic human bodies which are 987876x more complex than some loan amendment that you can copy paste.
Eh, different types of stress affect different people differently.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:53 pm
by nunumaster
Welcome to the club.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:40 pm
by jbagelboy
You guys r all so silly
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:04 pm
by MavEryck
Everyday is what you make of it.
Today I am right where I want to be. I work in a law firm and have pics of my little grandson. Life is marvelous!
A long time ago, (possibly before you were born...) I was in the Army...getting shot at (with real bullets). I was 17 when I went away into the military. Times were different back then. No, we didn't walk to school, uphill, in the snow...both ways... We complained about things like getting gassed by CS gas... You know what I hate? My buddies who aren't alive anymore. I also hate the health problems my buddies have, years after going to war. (One of them is dying as I am typing this) When is the last time a lawyer had to figure out how to survive in the desert? Or had to carry an M60 machine gun on a road march? But, I made the choice to go into that line of work.
People call legal work stress?!?
My nephew went into the military and got a body full of shrapnel when a car bomb blew up at a roadside checkpoint overseas... That was stressful.
It's all perspective... I hear people talk about how tough (fill in the blank) job is and I always bring up being in the U.S. Armed Forces for comparison. I never liked dodging bullets. But, I did it so that people back here at home could have the freedom to complain about what's going on in their lives.
I love coming to work at the law office. No one is shooting at me...ever! I don't have to put on a bulletproof vest when I walk outside... ever!
...and when my co-workers walk out the door at the end of the day...chances are high that they'll be back tomorrow, alive.
I'm a Disabled Veteran... I got hurt serving our Country. After that I got my left hand cut off. I spent a long time in a wheelchair because one of legs was destroyed almost beyond repair, then I finally learned to walk again. Then I got attacked from behind by some coward who didn't have the guts to come at me from the front. Because of that attack, I'm blind in one eye, on top of everything else. After all that, I went through law school. I laughed out loud every time I heard someone talk about how difficult law school was.
I type pretty slowly now and I'm blind in one eye, but I made it through law school without complaining about my disabilities. I studied hard and took the Bar because this is what I wanted more than anything else. Next time someone feels like complaining about their life, I hope this helps them think about it in perspective.
Can you see out of both eyes? Can you use both of your hands? I'm not really seeing much to complain about... Just sayin'
Hell, I have a buddy who lost both of his arms and both of his legs... We were in the hospital together when I lost my hand. I have never heard him complain one time in all these years, not once!
Everyday is what you make of it.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:18 pm
by Wipfelder
MavEryck wrote:Everyday is what you make of it.
Today I am right where I want to be. I work in a law firm and have pics of my little grandson. Life is marvelous!
A long time ago, (possibly before you were born...) I was in the Army...getting shot at (with real bullets). I was 17 when I went away into the military. Times were different back then. No, we didn't walk to school, uphill, in the snow...both ways... We complained about things like getting gassed by CS gas... You know what I hate? My buddies who aren't alive anymore. I also hate the health problems my buddies have, yearsOr had to carry an M60 machine gun on a road march? But, I made the choice to go into that line of work.
People call legal work stress?!?
My nephew went into the military and got a body full of shrapnel when a car bomb blew up at a roadside checkpoint overseas... That was stressful.
It's all perspective... I hear people talk about how tough (fill in the blank) job is and I always bring up being in the U.S. Armed Forces for comparison. I never liked dodging bullets. But, I did it so that people back here at home could have the freedom to complain about what's going on in their lives.
I love coming to work at the law office. No one is shooting at me...ever! I don't have to put on a bulletproof vest when I walk outside... ever!
...and when my co-workers walk out the door at the end of the day...chances are high that they'll be back tomorrow, alive.
I'm a Disabled Veteran... I got hurt serving our Country. After that I got my left hand cut off. I spent a long time in a wheelchair because one of legs was destroyed almost beyond repair, then I finally learned to walk again. Then I got attacked from behind by some coward who didn't have the guts to come at me from the front. Because of that attack, I'm blind in one eye, on top of everything else. After all that, I went through law school. I laughed out loud every time I heard someone talk about how difficult law school was.
I type pretty slowly now and I'm blind in one eye, but I made it through law school without complaining about my disabilities. I studied hard and took the Bar because this is what I wanted more than anything else. Next time someone feels like complaining about their life, I hope this helps them think about it in perspective.
Can you see out of both eyes? Can you use both of your hands? I'm not really seeing much to complain about... Just sayin'
Hell, I have a buddy who lost both of his arms and both of his legs... We were in the hospital together when I lost my hand. I have never heard him complain one time in all these years, not once!
Everyday is what you make of it.
I mean, point taken, but just because law isn't THE WORST shit ever, doesn't mean it's not stressful.
Subjectively, for most young Americans, law school and the work afterwards is pretty difficult.
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:45 pm
by MavEryck
Wipfelder wrote:
I mean, point taken, but just because law isn't THE WORST shit ever, doesn't mean it's not stressful.
Subjectively, for most young Americans, law school and the work afterwards is pretty difficult.
Maybe I'm out of touch with what most young Americans consider difficult...
I went to law school in my 40's and after a lot of experiences in the world. I guess if I hadn't gone through the things I've been through then law school might have been one of the most difficult things I had experienced... But, on second thought... No, I went through Hell prior to enlisting in the Military also (hence enlisting at the tender young age of 17 to escape the Hell that was my childhood).
So, I guess if I hadn't gone through Hell as a kid, which made dodging bullets seem like a better idea than what I was going through...then, had not been through the Military which is it's own special kind of Hell... and if I had not lost body parts and my eyesight...
Yes, I would agree law school would seem pretty difficult!
Re: HELP I hate law school (and I think the profession)
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:48 pm
by Wipfelder
MavEryck wrote:Wipfelder wrote:
I mean, point taken, but just because law isn't THE WORST shit ever, doesn't mean it's not stressful.
Subjectively, for most young Americans, law school and the work afterwards is pretty difficult.
Maybe I'm out of touch with what most young Americans consider difficult...
I went to law school in my 40's and after a lot of experiences in the world. I guess if I hadn't gone through the things I've been through then law school might have been one of the most difficult things I had experienced... But, on second thought... No, I went through Hell prior to enlisting in the Military also (hence enlisting at the tender young age of 17 to escape the Hell that was my childhood).
So, I guess if I hadn't gone through Hell as a kid, which made dodging bullets seem like a better idea than what I was going through...then, had not been through the Military which is it's own special kind of Hell... and if I had not lost body parts and my eyesight...
Yes, I would agree law school would seem pretty difficult!
The army isn't that difficult, it's not like basic training is graded on a curve. War can be shitty, but also exhilarating and meaningful in a way the law ever can be. You said you were humping and M60 in the desert so that's like, what, Persian Gulf?
And there are lots of occupations where people lose their limbs, They are all difficult, but competing in law school is hard as hell, there is only a few rrhings that compare to it in the military.