Possible to get a D (or F) on exam at a T10? Forum

[Skiing]

This is a serious question. Is it possible? Are there any instances of this at all? Or is C the lowest they ever go? And this is for 1L year. Thanks.

[rpupkin]

This is a serious question. Is it possible? Are there any instances of this at all? Or is C the lowest they ever go? And this is for 1L year. Thanks.

I have not heard of this happening in modern times. "C" is the new "D-"

There are five T10 schools with traditional letter grades. If you're at one of them, why don't you look up your school's grading policies? Perhaps your school doesn't even permit profs to assign Ds.

[Skiing]

I checked the grading policy and it mentions grade lower than C.

[kellyfrost]

So you could sit for the exam, lets assume it is an all essay exam, and write nothing relevant to the question and you would receive the lowest grade of a "C"?

[SFSpartan]

It is probably possible to get a grade lower than a C, but it is highly improbable. You would basically have to not write anything, write an essay insulting the prof, etc.

For all intents and purposes, T10 law schools don't fail their students. This makes inherent sense when you consider the impact such a grade would have on a person's job prospects. If you make some minimal effort to try, the worst you are going to do is a C.

[rpupkin]

It is probably possible to get a grade lower than a C, but it is highly improbable. You would basically have to not write anything, write an essay insulting the prof, etc.

For all intents and purposes, T10 law schools don't fail their students. This makes inherent sense when you consider the impact such a grade would have on a person's job prospects. If you make some minimal effort to try, the worst you are going to do is a C.

Actually, T10 law school do occasionally fail students. If a prof cares enough to put up with the administrative/paperwork hassle, a student can fail. I've heard stories. It's rare, but it happens.

But I don't think top law schools give Ds anymore. I think failing is more likely than a D.

[TheSpanishMain]

I think the only way to fail is to cheat, or to write something completely non-responsive. Like, write an essay about your favorite episode of the Kroll Show or something. Even getting a D would probably require massively misstating the law in a way that made it obvious you never once came to class or cracked a book.

So yes, it's possible. It's just exceedingly rare.

[jkpolk]

You can fail if you don't meet the ABA attendance requirement and a professor cares/notices. I think that's the easiest way.

[SFSpartan]

I think the only way to fail is to cheat, or to write something completely non-responsive. Like, write an essay about your favorite episode of the Kroll Show or something. Even getting a D would probably require massively misstating the law in a way that made it obvious you never once came to class or cracked a book.

So yes, it's possible. It's just exceedingly rare.

This is basically what I was trying to get at above.

[Vexed]

You can fail if you don't meet the ABA attendance requirement and a professor cares/notices. I think that's the easiest way.

Yeah, but the rule is pretty loosely stated so even that's not automatic. The ABA's rule is basically "school's have to have a policy requiring attendance", but there's no hard details about what that rule has to look like, so the school's policy (or at least my school's) ends up looking just as loose. I kind of pushed the limit on this sort of thing and ended up talking to admin at my school about it, and the general vibe I got out of it was that even in the most egregious scenarios they'll probably just ask the professor to give the C, or work out some way for the student to do something extra to work back up to the C.

[clshopeful]

You can fail if you don't meet the ABA attendance requirement and a professor cares/notices. I think that's the easiest way.

Yeah, but the rule is pretty loosely stated so even that's not automatic. The ABA's rule is basically "school's have to have a policy requiring attendance", but there's no hard details about what that rule has to look like, so the school's policy (or at least my school's) ends up looking just as loose. I kind of pushed the limit on this sort of thing and ended up talking to admin at my school about it, and the general vibe I got out of it was that even in the most egregious scenarios they'll probably just ask the professor to give the C, or work out some way for the student to do something extra to work back up to the C.

I thought if you missed 20% of classes, per ABA, you fail. My torts professor was very "by-the-book" and said this was the rule, and a few students came close enough to where he warned them he would have to fail them if they didn't attend more class.

[jbagelboy]

You can fail if you don't meet the ABA attendance requirement and a professor cares/notices. I think that's the easiest way.

Yeah, but the rule is pretty loosely stated so even that's not automatic. The ABA's rule is basically "school's have to have a policy requiring attendance", but there's no hard details about what that rule has to look like, so the school's policy (or at least my school's) ends up looking just as loose. I kind of pushed the limit on this sort of thing and ended up talking to admin at my school about it, and the general vibe I got out of it was that even in the most egregious scenarios they'll probably just ask the professor to give the C, or work out some way for the student to do something extra to work back up to the C.

I thought if you missed 20% of classes, per ABA, you fail. My torts professor was very "by-the-book" and said this was the rule, and a few students came close enough to where he warned them he would have to fail them if they didn't attend more class.

I missed enough torts classes to fail a few times over

[jdmonkey]

Yes. But at Michigan you get the opportunity to do makeup work, so that you can get a C-
Unfortunately you need at least a C if you want to retroactively pass/fail the class, so that would destroy your GPA.

[A. Nony Mouse]

You can fail if you don't meet the ABA attendance requirement and a professor cares/notices. I think that's the easiest way.

Yeah, but the rule is pretty loosely stated so even that's not automatic. The ABA's rule is basically "school's have to have a policy requiring attendance", but there's no hard details about what that rule has to look like, so the school's policy (or at least my school's) ends up looking just as loose. I kind of pushed the limit on this sort of thing and ended up talking to admin at my school about it, and the general vibe I got out of it was that even in the most egregious scenarios they'll probably just ask the professor to give the C, or work out some way for the student to do something extra to work back up to the C.

I thought if you missed 20% of classes, per ABA, you fail. My torts professor was very "by-the-book" and said this was the rule, and a few students came close enough to where he warned them he would have to fail them if they didn't attend more class.

That's the ABA rule, or at least, that's how a number of schools understand the rule, because that was what my school told us too. My school was fairly strict about it but we had the ABA accreditation visit while I was there and that's the one chance the ABA has to ding you for attendance issues. (Obviously it's up to the individual school/profs to enforce anything.)

[5ky]

i saw people at UVA get D's or F's in the grade books. they were rare, but they happened. i'm fairly sure that they were non-good faith efforts at attempting to answer the questions, though.

solely by the fact that you logged on to TLS to ask the question tells me that you will not get a D or F.

[TheoO]

Evidence professor failed 14 people last semester, or supposedly did (this is the number that's been going around, dunno where it came from). It's rare, but it happens. people who failed were those who pretty much just guessed completely on the exam and didn't spend mcuh of any time studying or preparing whatsoever.

[jbagelboy]

Evidence professor failed 14 people last semester, or supposedly did (this is the number that's been going around, dunno where it came from). It's rare, but it happens. people who failed were those who pretty much just guessed completely on the exam and didn't spend mcuh of any time studying or preparing whatsoever.

No fucking way. Who?

[TheoO]

Evidence professor failed 14 people last semester, or supposedly did (this is the number that's been going around, dunno where it came from). It's rare, but it happens. people who failed were those who pretty much just guessed completely on the exam and didn't spend mcuh of any time studying or preparing whatsoever.

No fucking way. Who?

Schechtman. He has a cut off for passing. The class was around 140 people. This isn't the first time, I've heard that he does this every year.

[jbagelboy]

Evidence professor failed 14 people last semester, or supposedly did (this is the number that's been going around, dunno where it came from). It's rare, but it happens. people who failed were those who pretty much just guessed completely on the exam and didn't spend mcuh of any time studying or preparing whatsoever.

No fucking way. Who?

Schechtman. He has a cut off for passing. The class was around 140 people. This isn't the first time, I've heard that he does this every year.

But really. No fucking way he failed 10% of his class. Schechtman is known as the 'easy' evidence class compared to Richman, who gives his worst students a B. There's just no way.

[jbagelboy]

I don't know a single person who has gotten a C or lower in any law school class at any school, ever.

This shit is mad flame.

[TheoO]

Evidence professor failed 14 people last semester, or supposedly did (this is the number that's been going around, dunno where it came from). It's rare, but it happens. people who failed were those who pretty much just guessed completely on the exam and didn't spend mcuh of any time studying or preparing whatsoever.

No fucking way. Who?

Schechtman. He has a cut off for passing. The class was around 140 people. This isn't the first time, I've heard that he does this every year.

But really. No fucking way he failed 10% of his class. Schechtman is known as the 'easy' evidence class compared to Richman, who gives his worst students a B. There's just no way.

Yea I have the same feeling. But that Schechman fails occasional students isn't new. That said, I take the number with a grain of salt.

[HonestAdvice]

It's definitely possible. Cheating would be one scenario as not only is cheating bad, but it creates a situation where there would be room, depending on the class size, for another 7-8 A-'s or A's.

Even without cheating, some people still get D's. The reason these grades are rare aren't only because professors don't want to single handedly harm somebody's career, but also because the law school style of tests gives you so much liberty in how you answer the question that somebody, having never stepped foot in law school, could still rack up tons of points simply going through a fact pattern pointing out "sketchy" stuff. However, some people still get D's.

[First Offense]

You have to try harder to get a D than to get an A.

[EzraFitz]

I know of one D and two Fs, and all were for a combination of not giving a good faith effort to the exam, and never going to a class where the professor very explicitly stated that not going to class will cause him to fail you.

[Manali]

I got an F on an exam at a non-T10 but still a school that is considered very "respectable" on these boards (think BC/BU). It's possible, but not likely, if you made a good-faith effort.