Had a couple computer-related close calls... Computer advice? Forum

[Catsinthebag]

Recently, almost got dinged for handing assignments in "late" when the student's worst nightmare honestly happened to me... the spinning colorful beachball of death, endlessly rotating 'round and 'round, while all I could do was sit and watch the minutes tick closer to the deadline for submission. Avoided tragedy each time.

Yes, I know: don't wait 'til the last minute. Assuming I'm fed up with current laptop's performance for some relatively heavier duty work - I'm not talking gaming here, but a large monitor hooked up, numerous Chrome tabs open, a few Word docs open, a bunch of PDFs, Zotero, probably some music app, etc., and I was looking for perhaps a desktop with which to do that work, and then to keep the current laptop (Macbook Pro 2012) for the less strenuous stuff of just taking notes in class and the like, does anyone have any recommendations on:

a) how much RAM I should aim for? Laptop has 4GB now.

b) what processor I should look for? Laptop has 2.5Ghz Intel Core i5.

and c) would this basically just take care of and for a damn good price (also, anyone have experience buying something like this via Groupon + it being "refurbished" - curiously, not "manufacturer refurbished" ?

Any help/advice anyone has would be greatly appreciated!

[pianoman4]

I have the same MacBookPro and had the same problems. I upgraded to a 250 GB solid state drive and 16 GBs of RAM. The computer runs like new now. You can buy the compenents and put it together yourself. There are tons of helpful videos on YouTube.

[haus]

A few items that might be worth noting.

For most users, noticeable delays when using a laptop come down to a few major factors: memory, processor, disk I/O

The more applications that you run (and the more work that each does), the more of each of the resources that you will consume. If you find yourself running into poor performance in a regular basis, it is likely worthwhile to take a look at how your resources are being utilized. In OS X, one way to check is using "Activity Monitor", the screen will look slightly differently depending on the version of OS X you are running, but it should have tabs/buttons for each of the major resources. I would suggest starting with memory.

It will show you how much of the resource is in use and by what applications. This would be a good time to take a look at how many applications may be running, you might find several apps hanging around in the background that you do not care about, killing these off can give a bit of a boost. Then focus on the major resource hogs. If the browser is eating all of your memory, you have a couple of options. Try doing less with the browser, make sure that you update the browser as several offered patches that allow for better memory handling, experiment with alternative browsers to see if they play better with the resources that you have available. If none of these options are getting you where you want to be, than it is time to consider upgrade/replace.

When picking out the specs that you want to aim for, you need to determine if your anticipated use case for the mid-term is similar to your current use. If it is, than go back to Activity Monitor and see what resources you at or near capacity, these are the resources that you will want you replacement to be strong in.

Currently I am running 24GB of RAM for my desktop and 8GB RAM for my laptop. For my usage, I consume quite a bit of RAM, so this is what I focused on when I bought my systems. All told I rarely seem to push the CPU or disk I/O on my systems (although I am a fan of SSD drives for faster OS startup and quick launch for even fairly large applications).

[SplitMyPants]

I upgraded my gf's mid-2012 MBP to an SSD and it made a WORLD of difference.

Before, I was never sure the damn thing would turn on the next day. Now, it's responsiveness is that of a brand new computer.
Look here for purchasing and installation videos (it's easy): http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-pro/2012

The fact that Mac continues to sell that MBP for almost $1000 is criminal. It's not a bad computer with this upgrade, but it's four-year-old technology and it basically needs this SSD to run...

[Catsinthebag]

Hey, thanks for your advice, especially this in-depth comment... yeah, I've looked at what's going on in Utility Monitor, it's definitely memory... I'm between 50-70% of CPU idle usually. Right now I have Chrome (my main browser) and Safari open (typically I don't use both simultaneously) as well as Adobe and Sunrise, neither of the latter "open" but running. Even like that, Safari and Chrome are taking about 10% CPU, everything else is barely above 1 or 2, but these damn "Google Chrome Helpers" are taking up the CPU power more than any app.

On the memory side, I've got 4 GB and at the moment 3.61GB being used. Safari and Chrome about 150 MB each, Messages 42.2MB, Dock 39MB, Finder 32MB, etc. Numerous Google Chrome Helpers are at 532MB, 360MB, 214MB, and one massive kernel_task is at like 800MB.I've read numerous articles from Googling that and they all seem to involve doing something that may or may not brick my Macbook, so I've refrained.

Should I just upgrade the memory, or will the kernel_task (not to mention the Chrome Helpers) just grow with the extra RAM? I'll also note, I used to have 923843209304980 thousand Chrome extensions, and I've since reduced that to 9 that I use all the time.

[Catsinthebag]

I upgraded my gf's mid-2012 MBP to an SSD and it made a WORLD of difference.

Before, I was never sure the damn thing would turn on the next day. Now, it's responsiveness is that of a brand new computer.
Look here for purchasing and installation videos (it's easy): http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-pro/2012

The fact that Mac continues to sell that MBP for almost $1000 is criminal. It's not a bad computer with this upgrade, but it's four-year-old technology and it basically needs this SSD to run...

Ok will certainly check this out. Yeah I like it overall, but this is getting pretty ridiculous. Then I bought my gf a $289 ASUS w/Windows 10 and, of course there is a hiccup here and there, she's never the one yelling at her screen, whereas I'm over here thinking about I'm about to fail my class because my computer's been stationary for 15 minutes.

[SplitMyPants]

Definitely spend the $60 to upgrade the HDD to SSD. I've seen two mid2012 MBP's become like brand new with just that upgrade. I was incredibly surprised.

This small upgrade will add years to the usability of your MBP.

eta: My gf's computer went from what I've seen as the closest thing to the Blue Screen of Death for Mac a few times a month to being as usable/responsive as my brand new MBP.

[haus]

It sounds like CPU is not much of an issue, although you might occasionally run into spikes, but unless you find yourself near capacity during normal use, you would not likely see huge improvements by a faster processor.

If at normal running you are at 3.6 GB used (~90%), it would not take much to put you over the top. When you hit (or get really near) 100%, then your system will try to pick things to pause, and pull things out of RAM and write them to disk until things slow down a bit. Because most disk are FAR slower than RAM, this is often noticeable by a big slow down (having a fast SSD makes this process less noticeable/painful, but even SSDs are quite a bit slower than RAM).

If you can update your RAM, you will likely find that your usage might go up a bit, but unless there is a usage change, the adjustment would likely not be dramatic. All told a RAM bump to 8 or 16 GB would likely make your system feel considerably more responsive.

[SplitMyPants]

For $110 total you can do 128 gb SSD and upgrade to 8 gb RAM through that OWC I linked. About $60 for the SSD and $50 for the RAM.

[haus]

For $110 total you can do 128 gb SSD and upgrade to 8 gb RAM through that OWC I linked. About $60 for the SSD and $50 for the RAM.

If the rest of the system is in decent shape, an upgrade like this could make a big difference in the user experience for the laptop.

[Catsinthebag]

For $110 total you can do 128 gb SSD and upgrade to 8 gb RAM through that OWC I linked. About $60 for the SSD and $50 for the RAM.

So, to be clear, just switching to the solid state makes that much of a difference in speed? The one I have, as I'm sure you know from your MBP 2012 experiences, is 500GB and I've got about 130 gigs taken up already. So I'd have to go up one more at least. And that maintains even if throwing that kinda beast of a computer from Groupon (I know, refurb'ed, etc) I linked to above into the equation? That's got 2TB (not SSD, though), 3.5Ghz cpu and 8 gigs RAM off the bat. Plus the functionality that comes with 10 USB ports, etc. I'm not by any means married to that idea, but I saw it for $214.99 and couldn't help but do a double-take.

[haus]

As you suspect SSDs are a bit of a trade off (unless you have a file of cash... then: http://gizmodo.com/samsungs-16tb-ssd-is ... 1762536707 ).

The Input/Output speed on a run of the mill SSD is considerably faster than that of a traditional hard drive, but at reasonable cost, the capacity of the SSD is less than that of a hard drive. Every time that the system needs to read from storage or write to storage that speed difference will come into play. In a static state environment you will not see much from this, assuming that you have sufficient RAM (this prevents caching, the process of taking things out of RAM to store on disk until more RAM frees up). But the speed will almost always be notable when you are doing notable drive activity (e.g. loading large applications, booting the system, editing video...)

On my MBA I have an SSD, and I have become a big fan, although the 256 GB capacity is small enough that I have to ponder some storage decisions. On my desktop, I have a hybrid drive which is effectively a 128GB SSD put together with a 1TB traditional hard drive. The system takes it upon itself to determine what should be on the fast part of the drive and what can be on the slow part. Most of the time, it seems to choose well, as the seat of the pants feel is that it feels more like SSD system than a HD system.

But the reality is that if the limited capacity does not meet your needs, than the tradeoff would not be worth while. If you are willing to do some drive shuffling and have info you want nearby, but not necessarily required to be on your prime drive, you could consider going to the SSD and then having a small profile USB drive, or a large and more mundane portable drive. If all of this is too much of a pain, you could stick with the HD and bump the RAM up enough to greatly lessen the amount of caching that you need to deal and you will likely be well ahead of where you are now.

[SplitMyPants]

For $110 total you can do 128 gb SSD and upgrade to 8 gb RAM through that OWC I linked. About $60 for the SSD and $50 for the RAM.

So, to be clear, just switching to the solid state makes that much of a difference in speed? The one I have, as I'm sure you know from your MBP 2012 experiences, is 500GB and I've got about 130 gigs taken up already. So I'd have to go up one more at least. And that maintains even if throwing that kinda beast of a computer from Groupon (I know, refurb'ed, etc) I linked to above into the equation? That's got 2TB (not SSD, though), 3.5Ghz cpu and 8 gigs RAM off the bat. Plus the functionality that comes with 10 USB ports, etc. I'm not by any means married to that idea, but I saw it for $214.99 and couldn't help but do a double-take.

Don't think I see a link in your OP. Honestly, IMO it depends on how new your 2012 MBP is. If it's from 2012, then there's an argument to be made to get a new computer. However, they still sell the 2012 model, so if you've bought it more recently, I say it's no contest, upgrade the Mac.

Even if it is 4 years old, I think an upgraded 2012 Mac would have more useful life than a $300 PC... Yeah the hardware specs are good, but do you really need 10 USBs? And 256 SSD beats 2TB HDD any day... That's what cloud storage or external HDDs are for.

[SplitMyPants]

But the reality is that if the limited capacity does not meet your needs, than the tradeoff would not be worth while. If you are willing to do some drive shuffling and have info you want nearby, but not necessarily required to be on your prime drive, you could consider going to the SSD and then having a small profile USB drive, or a large and more mundane portable drive. If all of this is too much of a pain, you could stick with the HD and bump the RAM up enough to greatly lessen the amount of caching that you need to deal and you will likely be well ahead of where you are now.

It may be prudent to do the RAM and then wait on the SSD. But IMO, I thought my gf's computer needed RAM, but did the SSD first after discussing with my sister who just upgraded her HDD. I couldnt believe the difference. In terms of storage, I feel like everything you need at your fingertips day-to-day can more than fit on 256 GB (esp with streaming music these days), and all you photos can chill on an external. (Or, if you're feeling a bit more ambitious, you could ultimately set up your own cloud storage down the road with some extra cash using an NAS drive or some DIY avenues).

[haus]

Spit,

You are right, cloud storage options are getting a lot better (both for commercial and roll your own). The recent announcement of the "Project Infinite" from DropBox sounds like it will be a nice win for those using SSD drives, but would like a good view and access to files that might not make the cut to carry them around with you everyday.

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... isk-space/

Although a lot will depend on your use case. We are in a world that wi-fi/cellular data access is much easier than it used to be, but not everyone is lucky enough to have this type of access. For those that cannot (or simply do not want to) put their faith in network accessibility, having what you want on hand can be a big win.

[SplitMyPants]

The recent announcement of the "Project Infinite" from DropBox sounds like it will be a nice win for those using SSD drives, but would like a good view and access to files that might not make the cut to carry them around with you everyday.

Whoa, hadn't heard about this. That's pretty neat.

[Catsinthebag]

Okay, good advice. . . You're right, I do have a lot of crap on here I don't need anywhere near me (or at all) if the performance were the tradeoff. The highest this MBP goes in RAM, according to Apple Website is 8GB, FYI.

Just for reference, this is what I meant to link to: https://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-hp-630 ... hard-drive.

And, just randomly saw this a minute ago: https://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-hp-630 ... hard-drive

[Catsinthebag]

I'm not exactly keen on purchasing computers via Groupon, but the top one caught my eye today, for sure.

[SplitMyPants]

Oh, sry, my $300 pc comment was assuming it was a laptop. I think I still stand by my opinion tho that it is probably more worthwhile to salvage the mbp given the added utility of a laptop. When did you get the mbp? Is it actually from 2012? Or is it just the mid 2012 unibody that you purchased more recently?

Also I think 8gb on Mac OS is comparable to 16gb on Windows. obviously that's oversimplification, but for average tasks I think the perceived performance holds true to that.

Eta: I guess I should have realized it was a desktop after the 10 USB port comment. I was wondering what kind of laptop would have that, lol

[haus]

I have not dealt with these providers, so I do not have any real direct input to provide.

For several years I ran a lab/network in my home of second and third hand systems that had ended their usefulness for others. Failures did occur, but over the years, I was surprised to find that system failures were a lot less common than one might suspect. Acquiring systems from outside the mainstream can be quite viable, but I recommend you perform a comfort check. The further you are away from a first tier retail purchase you go, the more comfortable you should be with rolling up your sleeves and tweaking/fixing/replacing something when things go wrong.

[Catsinthebag]

Oh, sry, my $300 pc comment was assuming it was a laptop. I think I still stand by my opinion tho that it is probably more worthwhile to salvage the mbp given the added utility of a laptop. When did you get the mbp? Is it actually from 2012? Or is it just the mid 2012 unibody that you purchased more recently?

Also I think 8gb on Mac OS is comparable to 16gb on Windows. obviously that's oversimplification, but for average tasks I think the perceived performance holds true to that.

I got it in August 2014 prior to beginning law school. So it's not THAT old. My thought (which was compiled in all of 2 minutes) was park that big guy from Groupon on the desk at home where I mostly work to handle the 50 windows open, copying/pasting, citing, keeping 10 windows visible at a time to read / write / edit, etc., and then keep the MBP for in-class notes, working mobile, portability, travel.

[SplitMyPants]

My gf's MBP is also from summer 2014. I would recommend you salvage that investment with the upgrades as it really will breathe an extra two or three years into your laptop. And then you can gauge whether or not you feel you need to invest in a desktop. This will also hedge against haus's concerns of a potential failure and putting you out of a usable system for a time.