Top Law Schools

I don't really understand how this works. For example, say I'm considering "law school X" due to a scholly that covers 80% of tuition as long as I maintain a 2.8 gpa. That doesn't seem like such a tough task but then the whole "grading on a curve" thing comes into play which I don't understand at all. What does that mean? If I get 2 A's and 3 B's my first semester of LS isn't that a 3.4 gpa? Does the "curve" actually bring that down?

The curve would go into effect before you get a grade in a class.


Let's say that the curve at your school is a 3.0 (in order to keep math nice)

That means that everyone could B's (3.0) and that the curve would work out.

Or that for every person that get's an A (4.0), someone must get a C (2.0)

Or any variation in between with plusses and minuses. So if they're all good exams, the separation between an A exam and a B or even a C exam may be minimal, depending on how your prof uses the curve.


So you could look into your prospective school and see what they're 1L class curve is.. Then more experienced users can probably help you calculate the odds of keeping your scholarship.. The school also can give you information (if it isn't posted somewhere) that will show how many students lost their scholarship last year, etc.

Good luck!

kayleighcheyenne wrote:The curve would go into effect before you get a grade in a class.


Let's say that the curve at your school is a 3.0 (in order to keep math nice)

That means that everyone could B's (3.0) and that the curve would work out.

Or that for every person that get's an A (4.0), someone must get a C (2.0)

Or any variation in between with plusses and minuses. So if they're all good exams, the separation between an A exam and a B or even a C exam may be minimal, depending on how your prof uses the curve.


So you could look into your prospective school and see what they're 1L class curve is.. Then more experienced users can probably help you calculate the odds of keeping your scholarship.. The school also can give you information (if it isn't posted somewhere) that will show how many students lost their scholarship last year, etc.

Good luck!

Ok so basically, as long as I handle my shit I'll be ok? I won't have to worry about losing my scholly as long as MY gpa stays above 3.0 (hypothetically)? So in that case, what is the use of negotiating a lower stip if all I'm getting is maybe .2-.4 points of leeway?

The curve is different at each school though, so you should find out what the curve is for your school. Hypothetically, if its a 3.5 you should be ok. But if the curve is a 2.7? You could be in trouble. Thats the key variable.

jetsfan1 wrote:The curve is different at each school though, so you should find out what the curve is for your school. Hypothetically, if its a 3.5 you should be ok. But if the curve is a 2.7? You could be in trouble. Thats the key variable.

Thanks for the response but how would having a curve at 2.7 gpa constitute as "trouble" vs. a 3.5 gpa?

ALeal90 wrote:

jetsfan1 wrote:The curve is different at each school though, so you should find out what the curve is for your school. Hypothetically, if its a 3.5 you should be ok. But if the curve is a 2.7? You could be in trouble. Thats the key variable.

Thanks for the response but how would having a curve at 2.7 gpa constitute as "trouble" vs. a 3.5 gpa?

I think they meant if the curve (ie the average GPA of all 1Ls) is a 3.5, you should have a VERY good chance at staying above a 2.8..


If the curve (the average GPA) is a 2.7, then there's a greater than 50% chance you will be below the curve, and lose your scholarship. So negotiating the stipulation could save you a lot in that instance

In law school, the class is ranked from first to last. The letter grades you get are just abstractions of that fact. The curve is the means by which professors ensure even distribution of grades to allow for that ranking.

A scholarship requiring X GPA is in effect requiring you to outperform Y% of your peers.

Sometimes, that is reasonable - it might be a 2.7 GPA stipulation at a school with a 3.3 GPA median, meaning you only need to avoid the bottom 10% or so of the class.

Sometimes, this is insane - it might be a 3.3 stipulation at a school with a 3.0 GPA median, meaning you will lose your scholarship if for any reason you don't perform better than a substantial majority of your peers.

Since everyone at the school will be smart and working hard, it's always risky to assume you'll be able to meet a scholarship stipulation of the latter category, hence the negotiation.

Ok I think I'm getting it. Now say for school X, cum laude begins at 3.2 and the scholly stip is 2.8. Would the median then be some where between that? Like 3.0 or something? I guess I would have to find out the median of my class after my 1L correct?

Schools are generally relatively public about the grade distribution. But just knowing where cum laude begins + what the stipulation is won't be enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la ... GPA_curves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

I think they meant if the curve (ie the average GPA of all 1Ls) is a 3.5, you should have a VERY good chance at staying above a 2.8..


If the curve (the average GPA) is a 2.7, then there's a greater than 50% chance you will be below the curve, and lose your scholarship. So negotiating the stipulation could save you a lot in that instance

Exactly.

Ok I think I'm getting it. Now say for school X, cum laude begins at 3.2 and the scholly stip is 2.8. Would the median then be some where between that? Like 3.0 or something? I guess I would have to find out the median of my class after my 1L correct?

No they are pretty public about it, you can normally figure it out, and it stays pretty consistent over the years. Here's a wikipedia link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la ... GPA_curves

Edit: Ah, you beat me to it haha

Yea I don't see the schools im looking at on this list. I'll probably just figure it out later when I start getting into places.. thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. But I guess the general rule is try to get the median gpa higher than the stip gpa or have em about even?

Try to go to a school that doesn't put stipulations on the scholarship.

Most good schools don't have stipulations beyond don't flunk out.

ALeal90 wrote:Yea I don't see the schools im looking at on this list. I'll probably just figure it out later when I start getting into places.. thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. But I guess the general rule is try to get the median gpa higher than the stip gpa or have em about even?

The general rule is much closer to "schools that attach stipulations to scholarships are universally awful and you probably should retake the LSAT."

thesealocust wrote:The general rule is much closer to "schools that attach stipulations to scholarships are universally awful and you probably should retake the LSAT."

This. I go to a TTT and even they don't have stips on my scholarship. That should tell you something about the schools that have them (Strong regional school, however.)

ALeal90 wrote:Yea I don't see the schools im looking at on this list. I'll probably just figure it out later when I start getting into places.. thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. But I guess the general rule is try to get the median gpa higher than the stip gpa or have em about even?

The bigger issue with stipulations is that many of these schools will stack a section with all the scholarship kids. So you end up in a situation where in every class you are competing against people in the same situation you are. And because of the forced curve, some scholarship recipients will definitely lose their $$.

Just found out for school X the median gpa is 3.13.. so if I have a stip at 2.8, I have a decent shot a retaining correct?

That's a stupid stipulation and you should just ask them to waive it.

Florida?

I think thats like top 85%...

ALeal90 wrote:Just found out for school X the median gpa is 3.13.. so if I have a stip at 2.8, I have a decent shot a retaining correct?

All things considered, a pretty good chance. Certainly not one of the worst offeners.

thesealocust wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:Just found out for school X the median gpa is 3.13.. so if I have a stip at 2.8, I have a decent shot a retaining correct?

All things considered, a pretty good chance. Certainly not one of the worst offeners.

Thanks that definitely makes me feel a whole lot better about taking the TTTT route. Not saying I will but it's good to know what I'd be getting myself into if I do..

ALeal90 wrote:Thanks that definitely makes me feel a whole lot better about taking the TTTT route.

dont do that

you have a 3.8....

Nova wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:Thanks that definitely makes me feel a whole lot better about taking the TTTT route.

dont do that

you have a 3.8....

This. Seriously.

Nova wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:Thanks that definitely makes me feel a whole lot better about taking the TTTT route.

dont do that

you have a 3.8....

Dude if I don't get into a tier 1, I'm taking the best financial package possible, which will prob be a full ride or close to a full ride at a TTTT. I'm not going to a TT at sticker when I have a better shot at getting to the top of my class at TTTT and have an opportunity to minimize my debt. Retaking is probably not an option(unless I score so low that I have to) because I will be out of the country from October to March and I really don't want to wait another cycle. Appreciate your insight though

ALeal90 wrote:

Nova wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:Thanks that definitely makes me feel a whole lot better about taking the TTTT route.

dont do that

you have a 3.8....

Dude if I don't get into a tier 1, I'm taking the best financial package possible, which will prob be a full ride or close to a full ride at a TTTT. I'm not going to a TT at sticker when I have a better shot at getting to the top of my class at TTTT and have an opportunity to minimize my debt.

Drop the "better shot at getting to the top of my class at TTTT" and I agree with the above. Law school is a different beast, and your undergrad stats do not predict where you will end up ranking wise. Every year, PLENTY of people take TT/TTT/TTTT offers with that same mindset and end up losing their money. Tons of people (myself included) had exactly the same thought you did when selecting a lower-ranked school. It's not like you're going to be the only smart person there, and don't try to convince yourself that because you did better on the LSAT and had a higher UGPA you're somehow more prepared for law school.

justcallmeit wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:

Nova wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:Thanks that definitely makes me feel a whole lot better about taking the TTTT route.

dont do that

you have a 3.8....

Dude if I don't get into a tier 1, I'm taking the best financial package possible, which will prob be a full ride or close to a full ride at a TTTT. I'm not going to a TT at sticker when I have a better shot at getting to the top of my class at TTTT and have an opportunity to minimize my debt.

Drop the "better shot at getting to the top of my class at TTTT" and I agree with the above. Law school is a different beast, and your undergrad stats do not predict where you will end up ranking wise. Every year, PLENTY of people take TT/TTT/TTTT offers with that same mindset and end up losing their money. Tons of people (myself included) had exactly the same thought you did when selecting a lower-ranked school. It's not like you're going to be the only smart person there, and don't try to convince yourself that because you did better on the LSAT and had a higher UGPA you're somehow more prepared for law school.

I'm not saying all that and I'm definitely not saying that I'm not going to give every ounce of energy in my body to get into that top percentile. In law school everybody is smart but above all, hard working. I HAVE to commit to being the hardest worker there no matter the cost. That's the only way I'm succeeding.. I'm looking at it like I'm preparing for a 3 year war. Not to mention, law school X is about half an hour from where my folks live. I can commute from home and bring down my C.O.L. and outside stress levels significantly. All I would have to do is focus on LS. No bills, no cleaning, no annoying undergrad neighbors and no other worries except for my grades and that my friend, is a beautiful thing