Top Law Schools

1L here, long time lurker, finally made an account.

Question for 2Ls/3Ls: I've always heard how 2Ls & 3Ls are so much more relaxed, nonchalant, etc. than 1Ls.

Any explanations as to why this is the case? Is it simply because grade-wise/ summer firm-hiring wise their short term futures are already decided?

I'm actually pretty sure that 2L year is the worst. You miss a bunch of class up front doing OCI callbacks, you're usually writing a note if you're on law review, or you miss even more class if you need to do moot court competitions (or both). You might also do a clinic 2L year, which kills any extra free time you might have...

By 3L year most of this is behind you. You might be an editor, but then you don't have to also write a note, and if you already have a job you can pretty much quit everything. Plus, if you knocked out the bar courses 2L year, your 3L course load can be a complete joke.

(2L here, btw)

To me 1L was far more stressful because getting competitive grades was absolutely critical. After securing a 1L SA you feel the necessity to maintain your grades (whether it mattered or not, I am still not sure). As a 2L there is still stress regarding grades (but not as much) since you already have your 2SA secured (continuation of your 1L SA or OCI). 2L is more work, especially regarding deadlines if you have journal (or moot court), plus studying, papers, etc. From what I have seen from 3Ls, they are not engaged with LS unless they are deeply involved with a journal or some similar project.

I pretty much agree with everything already said. 1L is generally more stressful for everyone, because grades are unknown (and so important). OCI (and callbacks) can be extremely stressful too though, but that's only the beginning of 2L. The rest of your second year is probably busier for the average law student just because you have more commitments and duties. Less stress, though, if you got something through OCI. (If you didn't though, then there can be a lot of stress.) 3L year is usually a question of whether you can get as motivated as you were the previous two years (and usually you have less commitments, unless you're ed board).

Exams are always stressful, but I think for 2L year you don't start really stressing out about them until later in the year, whereas for 1L they are this big unknown that stresses you out the entire semester. Also, 2L year your professors don't haze you like they do during 1L, so you either don't get cold called, or you only get cold called on certain prearranged dates, or even if you do get randomly cold called you either don't care as much or your professors don't grill you like they would 1st year. But in terms of workload, I'm still really busy as a 2L. The job search was a nightmare, took up tons of time going on callbacks, and some in the class are still searching which is exceptionally stressful. 2L still sucks, it just sucks less than 1L.

I'm finding 2L way more stressful than 1L, actually. My slacker tactics won't work as well as they did last year, because the classes I'm taking are really professor-specific and attendance actually counts for all my classes, where none of them took attendance last year. Add on to that moot court coaching, a note, journal stuff, papers, leadership in student orgs, and the bench memo I have to write this semester, and it makes me really glad I didn't keep going with that internship I would have had 15 hours a week. This year is crazy and I feel like I have no time. When you're a 1L people kind of tip toe around you so the only responsibilities you have are your doctrinal course reading and maybe some stupid LPW assignments, whereas when you're a 2L you actually have more work but people don't respect your time as much.

ETA: Though I suppose when it comes to actual school stuff (i.e. grades), yeah, I don't care as much. I was prepared to NGAF entirely until someone reminded me that nothing is guaranteed. Still gotta gun for that permanent offer, I guess (to the extent I ever gun at all).

2L/3L is really about choosing your own pain level. all of the following add significant burdens to your schedule: clinics, gunner courses, law reviews, moot court, officer positions in student orgs. you could choose all of the above, none of the above, or somewhere in between. for example, at HLS it is possible to take three straightforward exam courses at a time, do nothing else, and graduate just fine (and really LOL at taking 11 or 12 credits vs 18 as a 1L).

Depends on the person.

1L you are learning how to do law school. Most people do not have experience where your entire grade is determined by one test. And generally you just don't know how much work is enough and how well you're doing or will do.

2L you may have more varied responsibilities, with journal or moot court or what-have-you. You're also more likely to have leadership roles in any organizations you're in, rather than 1L where you likely just show up to meetings and put that club on your resume.

3L is the same as 2L, except you've pretty much learned what works for you and chosen your stress level. If you have a job set-up for post-graduation, then really it's about clerkship apps (which can turn people back into stressed 1L's) or really just getting through school to start life.

People that are "set" and don't have aspirations of being top of the class, COA clerks, etc. (and aren't already there) are likely going to take it easy and not stress, since things are fairly certain for them. However, there are going to be plenty of people searching for work and stressed about that, or just still stressed because that's how they are.

Depends if you have a job lined up in August/September of your 2L year or not. 5 years ago going back farther, most people were locked into a firm at the beginning of 2L, and hence coasted the rest of the way.

"1L you are learning how to do law school. Most people do not have experience where your entire grade is determined by one test. And generally you just don't know how much work is enough and how well you're doing or will do. "

What's the best remedy to this problem? My guess is: practice exams?

Relative to 1L, 2L has been amazing. I'm taking less credits, my journal doesn't require much work, and I can study way more efficiently than I could 1L. Also, grades are way less stressful since I'm fortunate enough to have a SA lined up.

Life is good.

SplitLife wrote:"1L you are learning how to do law school. Most people do not have experience where your entire grade is determined by one test. And generally you just don't know how much work is enough and how well you're doing or will do. "

What's the best remedy to this problem? My guess is: practice exams?

Practice exams will help you prepare, but it's not going to quiet most of your fears about how your exam will be graded.

SplitLife wrote:"1L you are learning how to do law school. Most people do not have experience where your entire grade is determined by one test. And generally you just don't know how much work is enough and how well you're doing or will do. "

What's the best remedy to this problem? My guess is: practice exams?

This was actually going to be my next question. I understand the "mystery" aspect to this whole process. I guess what I'm wondering is, is there any way to realize before that first round of finals how to study more efficiently/ learn the right amount of law instead of over-working yourself?

InPursuit wrote:

SplitLife wrote:"1L you are learning how to do law school. Most people do not have experience where your entire grade is determined by one test. And generally you just don't know how much work is enough and how well you're doing or will do. "

What's the best remedy to this problem? My guess is: practice exams?

This was actually going to be my next question. I understand the "mystery" aspect to this whole process. I guess what I'm wondering is, is there any way to realize before that first round of finals how to study more efficiently/ learn the right amount of law instead of over-working yourself?

unfortunately, not really. you really have no idea how your peers will do, which is going to be the biggest factor. if you score a 76, that doesn't mean anything without knowing what the high/low/average was. depending on your school, your first round of exams might be an eye opener in terms of how smart your peers are. that's the nature of the beast and a lot of reason for all the anxiety in law school. no matter how well you do, it's all a matter of how well your peers do on the same test.

IMO, if you get a job quickly or through OCI, 2L is less stressful than 1L, but if you don't, it is far more stressful due to fear of what will happen if you don't get one and just the time that it takes to keep applying. What makes 1L so stressful is your 1L grades largely dictate what type of 2L year you have.

It's hard to give any fucks the third time going through the meat grinder.

Some 3Ls are totally chill and checked out, and others are total fucks who are bitter about not getting a clerkship, or not getting a feeder clerkship, or not getting whatever the fuck else they think they were entitled to. Law students find a way to suck at every stress level.

IAFG wrote:Some 3Ls are totally chill and checked out, and others are total fucks who are bitter about not getting a clerkship, or not getting a feeder clerkship, or not getting whatever the fuck else they think they were entitled to. Law students find a way to suck at every stress level.

TCR. After 1L year they remove the poison from the water supply, but that just means some law students seek out their own source to keep the hurt alive.

Of course 2Ls and 3Ls are less stressed. Not only is the pressure to get a job alleviated after finding a summer position, but also 3Ls relying on scholarships can rest easy at that point, knowing that no conditions remain.

Thread in a nutshell: 2L/3Ls with SAs/offers say 2L and 3L are easy, you guys are dumb. 2L/3Ls w/o summer work/no-offered say law school is terrible throughout, you guys are dumb.

Gorki wrote:Thread in a nutshell: 2L/3Ls with SAs/offers say 2L and 3L are easy, you guys are dumb. 2L/3Ls w/o summer work/no-offered say law school is terrible throughout, you guys are dumb.

Credited.

IAFG wrote:others are total fucks who are bitter about not getting a clerkship, or not getting a feeder clerkship, or not getting whatever the fuck else they think they were entitled to.

For me that would be "a job."