How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School? Forum

heeloftar · Post by **heeloftar** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:17 pm

I don't even really know where to look for data on this, so perhaps personal anecdotes will assuage my curiosity.

How do splitters do once they are actually in law school? I'd imagine that it's a bit of a bi-modal distribution, with some people who finally grew up and worked hard in law school (resulting in success), and another group of people carrying their laziness and self-entitlement with them to law school (resulting in poor grades).

Also, what about reverse splitters? It would seem to me that reverse splitters would follow a more natural distribution, as a lot of times reverse splitters are just victims of test-taking anxiety.

swimmer11 · Post by **swimmer11** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:20 pm

I am almost 100% positive there has been a previous thread on this because I remember reading it. The search function should guide you.

manofjustice · Post by **manofjustice** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:45 pm

bump.

FlanSolo · Post by **FlanSolo** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:48 pm

heeloftar wrote:I'd imagine that it's a bit of a bi-modal distribution, with some people who finally grew up and worked hard in law school (resulting in success)

This was me, though to be honest I think I also partially "got" law school just because I grew up in a house where everyone argued for sport about everything, so the whole "argue both sides" thing came very naturally to me.

rayiner · Post by **rayiner** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:02 pm

It's bi-modal, but I don't think it's symmetrical. Most of the high-LSAT splitters I know did really well, even the ones with truly atrocious UGPA's. I don't know anyone who got median-pwned.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:29 pm

I performed terribly as an UG (~2.2), earned a reasonably good LSAT, and I just finished my first year at a TTT. I did pretty well.

Icculus · Post by **Icculus** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:35 pm

rayiner wrote:It's bi-modal, but I don't think it's symmetrical. Most of the high-LSAT splitters I know did really well, even the ones with truly atrocious UGPA's. I don't know anyone who got median-pwned.

Same here. Most splitters I know performed very well, and were above median. I think the one thing splitters have going for them is that they know how to buckle down on a timed test, and most of us have learned from our UG experiences that we can't fuck up again. I also think law school exams test a very different set of strategies/abilities than anything I did in undergrad.

Though at NU I think that since most splitters have also been working for a few years we also have grown up from our 18-22 y/o idiot selves.

abc12345675 · Post by **abc12345675** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:36 pm

Nothing scientific, but I'd say it depends.

A person with a low GPA, high LSAT will do better in my opinion because it likely is a result of being naturally very intelligent and just not giving a shit about nonsense undergrad classes.

High GPA, low LSAT though is questionable to me. Could be a product of easy undergrad, hard worker, but lower intelligence

Kring345 · Post by **Kring345** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:43 pm

abc12345675 wrote:High GPA, low LSAT though is questionable to me. Could be a product of easy undergrad, hard worker, but lower intelligence

To be honest, this is me, and, as a result, Im kinda shitting my pants getting ready for CLS. Though still probably well above average compared to the general population, I dont have a lot of pure, raw brain power. Everything Ive accomplished in life (albeit a lot of good stuff) has been the direct result of hard work and "caring" more than most people.

Icculus · Post by **Icculus** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:48 pm

Kring345 wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:Could be a product of easy undergrad, hard worker, but lower intelligence
To be honest, this is me, and, as a result, Im kinda shitting my pants getting ready for CLS. I dont have a lot of pure brain power, though still well above average. But everything Ive accomplished in life (albeit a lot of good stuff) has been the direct result of hard work and "caring" more than most people.

I'm of the viewpoint that hard work/dedication does help, but on the extremes. Natural ability alone will unlikely lead to a 4.0 or top 5% finish, and I do think some people out perform their natural ability b/c of hard work. At the same time, the key to law school is being able to learn to read cases, pull out rules, and apply them to new situations quickly. You can study your ass off, but if you can't make the transition to a new set of facts quickly then you can only perform so well. Knowing the BLL only gets you so far.

Kring345 · Post by **Kring345** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:51 pm

Im trying to compensate for raw natural ability by really trying to "learn how to game the game," so to speak. Instead of studying E&Es, Im studying Getting to Maybe, the Collected Wisdom posts on TLS, LEEWS, Delany, etc. When I say "studying," I literally mean studying and not just reading. Every successful student says that whoever 'figures out' law school and law school exams first usually gets the best grades, so that's what Im focusing on.

Icculus · Post by **Icculus** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:53 pm

Kring345 wrote:Im trying to compensate for raw natural ability by really trying to "learn how to game the game," so to speak. Instead of studying E&Es, Im studying Getting to Maybe, the Collected Wisdom posts on TLS, LEEWS, Delany, etc. When I say "studying," I literally mean studying and not just reading. Every successful student says that whoever 'figures out' law school and law school exams first usually gets the best grades, so that's what Im focusing on.

Getting to Maybe revealed: There only correct answer is "it depends"

FlanSolo · Post by **FlanSolo** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:56 pm

Kring345 wrote:Im trying to compensate for raw natural ability by really trying to "learn how to game the game," so to speak. Instead of studying E&Es, Im studying Getting to Maybe, the Collected Wisdom posts on TLS, LEEWS, Delany, etc. When I say "studying," I literally mean studying and not just reading. Every successful student says that whoever 'figures out' law school and law school exams first usually gets the best grades, so that's what Im focusing on.

I kind of did this and I think it was unnecessary. You should definitely read GTM and (probably) LEEWS, but there's no reason to "study" it. I took notes on each chapter of GTM and transcribed them into an extremely rough outline. Although this did not take me much time, I can assure you it was time completely and totally wasted.

FlanSolo · Post by **FlanSolo** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:57 pm

Icculus wrote:
Kring345 wrote:Im trying to compensate for raw natural ability by really trying to "learn how to game the game," so to speak. Instead of studying E&Es, Im studying Getting to Maybe, the Collected Wisdom posts on TLS, LEEWS, Delany, etc. When I say "studying," I literally mean studying and not just reading. Every successful student says that whoever 'figures out' law school and law school exams first usually gets the best grades, so that's what Im focusing on.
Getting to Maybe revealed: There only correct answer is "it depends"

Talk about the Helping Friendly Book.

Icculus · Post by **Icculus** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:58 pm

FlanSolo wrote:
Icculus wrote:
Kring345 wrote:Im trying to compensate for raw natural ability by really trying to "learn how to game the game," so to speak. Instead of studying E&Es, Im studying Getting to Maybe, the Collected Wisdom posts on TLS, LEEWS, Delany, etc. When I say "studying," I literally mean studying and not just reading. Every successful student says that whoever 'figures out' law school and law school exams first usually gets the best grades, so that's what Im focusing on.
Getting to Maybe revealed: There only correct answer is "it depends"
Talk about the Helping Friendly Book.

+1

FlanSolo · Post by **FlanSolo** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:01 pm

Icculus wrote:
FlanSolo wrote: Talk about the Helping Friendly Book.
+1

Some of the aforementioned reading of GTM and taking notes on it occurred during down time at Super Ball IX. So shameful.

laxbrah420 · Post by **laxbrah420** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:04 pm

is Phish any good again? What's been the highlight of the tour (for DLing purposes). Or should I just stick to some 95-00 stuff.

FlanSolo · Post by **FlanSolo** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:07 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:is Phish any good again? What's been the highlight of the tour (for DLing purposes). Or should I just stick to some 95-00 stuff.

Yeah, this most recent tour has actually been really good. AC1 was pretty great, SPAC1 and SPAC3 were pretty damn good too. I can't follow as closely as I have in years past, put I try and stream the highlights while working. You can too:

--LinkRemoved--

Icculus · Post by **Icculus** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:12 pm

FlanSolo wrote:
laxbrah420 wrote:is Phish any good again? What's been the highlight of the tour (for DLing purposes). Or should I just stick to some 95-00 stuff.
Yeah, this most recent tour has actually been really good. AC1 was pretty great, SPAC1 and SPAC3 were pretty damn good too. I can't follow as closely as I have in years past, put I try and stream the highlights while working. You can too:

--LinkRemoved--

yeah, same here. pretty sure we have derailed this thread enough. Though if anyone is going to the St. Louis Starlight show I'll see you there. It's my present to myself for making it through OCI.

dpk711 · Post by **dpk711** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:14 pm

These are just people I know in law school so take it with a grain of salt. Most of the splitters I know (myself included) did above median their 1L year. The reverse-splitters I know though haven't fared as well. Again, I don't want to generalize, but it's a trend I've noticed at least among classmates I know.

FlanSolo · Post by **FlanSolo** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:17 pm

Icculus wrote: yeah, same here. pretty sure we have derailed this thread enough. Though if anyone is going to the St. Louis Starlight show I'll see you there. It's my present to myself for making it through OCI.

To be fair, we also learned that being a splitter and being a Phish fan is at least anecdotally correlated. I can't say I'm very surprised.

Enjoy St. Louis! I can't believe they decided to skip Merriweather and Philly this year. Those were usually the shows I always saw.

ClarDarr · Post by **ClarDarr** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:21 pm

I was a reverse splitter and finished 1L in the top 5 students in my class.

taxguy · Post by **taxguy** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:32 pm

I only know three splitters. However, two had very strong GPA and attended good schools with very mediocre LSATs and one had a very good LSAT and mediocre GPA.

1. One with very high GPA ( from Md) and low LSAT got into Maryland law school. Let's face it, Maryland can't reject one of their own top students even though he had a 150 on the LSAT. He graduated in the top 3% of his class.

2. Second one with strong GPA ( 3.7) and very poor LSAT( 146). In fact, he had to participate in the AAMPLE program ( which is a summer program that allows admission if you do well) since he wouldn't have been admitted based on his LSAT score. He just finished his first year in top 15% and got a merit scholarship.

3. The person with the high LSAT ( also at Maryland) and mediocre GPA was just above median of her class. She was probably top 40%-45%.

I know these aren't necessarily statistically valid. However, it is an interesting result.

Gecko of Doom · Post by **Gecko of Doom** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:48 pm

The one person in my class I know for certain to be a reverse splitter finished 1L in the top third.

However, another that I don't know, but reasonably suspect, to be a reverse splitter finished below median.

ap1987 · Post by **ap1987** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:51 pm

The LSAT is a pretty piss poor indication of ability to perform in law school. Some people on here will try to convince you otherwise but it really didn't seem to matter. GPA seems to be a better indicator. That's based on my own personal experience and the experience of some of my classmates.

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