How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School? Forum

(Study Tips, Dealing With Stress, Maintaining a Social Life, Financial Aid, Internships, Bar Exam, Careers in Law . . . )
User avatar
brose

Silver
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:05 am

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by brose » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:58 pm

I was a low LSAT/high GPA and finished high. I think it's a combo of luck/work habit/curve.... which means... learn how to take a law school exam. :)

User avatar
androstan

Gold
Posts: 4633
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by androstan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:00 pm

I think the performance of high LSAT splitters has to do with the degree to which they have "reformed." Most of us (I had a 2.9) slacked off and/or screwed around too much. If that's still your attitude and maturity level, you will likely perform about as well as your UGPA+LSAT aggregate predicts. If you've grown up, you'll probably perform about as your LSAT predicts. I'm mostly reformed, got an LSAT a little above the 75th percentile at the school I attend, and am performing about on par with that. My UGPA+LSAT aggregate would have me near the bottom of the class, though.

For high GPA splitters (so-called "reverse splitters") it's a question of what their numbers represent. The more competitive your UG sool/program and the less they grade-inflate, the more your UGPA indicates you can grind out the long study hours to produce high grades. The harder you had to prep for a relatively low LSAT, the more it indicates you have difficulty working under the pressure of severe time-constraints. The main point is, for reverse splitters, not much usually changes between UG and LS, whereas regular splitters often "clean up their act" and perform better. Of course, some don't.

Disclaimer: Statistically the correlation between LSAT and LS grades is weak but not insignificant. Statistically the correlation between UGPA and LS grades is even weaker, but still not insignificant. The correlation between LSAT+UGPA aggregate is a bit tighter, but still with plenty of scatter. Both metrics have inherent problems. The LSAT shows bias amongst races, even when accounting for SES, and the reason(s) is/are unknown. UGPA varies wildly depending on the the school, the major, the individual professor, and if you forgot to set your alarm the morning of your final.

timetoleave

New
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:24 am

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by timetoleave » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:24 pm

.
Last edited by timetoleave on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
YYZ

Bronze
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:39 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by YYZ » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:09 pm

I believe the LSAC or ABA publishes data each year on the correlation between LSAT score and UGPA and 1L grades. I haven't looked at it for quite some time, but I think it showed that LSAT and UGPA were both good indicators of 1L grades with LSAT being a slightly better indicator (i.e. higher LSAT = better grades).

However, I think that people with lower LSAT or lower UGPA tend to overcome weaknesses by working with others in the class to master the material. It seems that people in class tend to "hear" the material slightly differently. Or, you may have a hard time keeping up with the professor during the lecture. If so, you can overcome this by working with others in the class. It's a good idea to compare your class notes with at least one other person and collectively come to a consensus on what the prof was trying to say. If the study group reaches no consensus on a particular point, you can then ask the prof for clarification. Even the "smartest" person in the study group/study pair will benefit by teaching the material to the other people who need help.

If you work efficiently with others to master the material, prepare a good outline, and master the outline, I think you're in a good position to do well on the exam. From there, your ability to spot the issues (i.e. the important issues according to the prof) and write convincing arguments on both sides of the argument will most likely determine your grade. There is no substitute for studying smart and efficiently.

Just my opinion after the first year.

smittytron3k

Bronze
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by smittytron3k » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:11 pm

Very good friend from college was 3.4/180 and is currently in the top 2-3% at NYU after 1L. Then again, another very good friend from college was a reverse splitter (4.1/170) and barely missed Kent at CLS. Not sure that this proves anything other than that unbalanced applicants can do super well in law school.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
Icculus

Silver
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by Icculus » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:18 pm

brose wrote:learn how to take a law school exam. :)
This is really the most important part.

ahnhub

Silver
Posts: 578
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:14 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by ahnhub » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:19 pm

Kring345 wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:High GPA, low LSAT though is questionable to me. Could be a product of easy undergrad, hard worker, but lower intelligence
To be honest, this is me, and, as a result, Im kinda shitting my pants getting ready for CLS. Though still probably well above average compared to the general population, I dont have a lot of pure, raw brain power. Everything Ive accomplished in life (albeit a lot of good stuff) has been the direct result of hard work and "caring" more than most people.
Just read some of the posts by TLS morons who aced the LSAT. It'll make you feel better. It def helps me.

User avatar
Stringer6

Platinum
Posts: 5919
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:45 am

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by Stringer6 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:29 pm

smittytron3k wrote:Very good friend from college was 3.4/180 and is currently in the top 2-3% at NYU after 1L. Then again, another very good friend from college was a reverse splitter (4.1/170) and barely missed Kent at CLS. Not sure that this proves anything other than that unbalanced applicants can do super well in law school.
4.1/170 is a splitter?

User avatar
dpk711

Silver
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:24 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by dpk711 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:31 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
smittytron3k wrote:Very good friend from college was 3.4/180 and is currently in the top 2-3% at NYU after 1L. Then again, another very good friend from college was a reverse splitter (4.1/170) and barely missed Kent at CLS. Not sure that this proves anything other than that unbalanced applicants can do super well in law school.
4.1/170 is a splitter?
By definition I don't think it is. The 25th for CLS is 170.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


ahnhub

Silver
Posts: 578
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:14 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by ahnhub » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:33 pm

Stringer6 wrote:
smittytron3k wrote:Very good friend from college was 3.4/180 and is currently in the top 2-3% at NYU after 1L. Then again, another very good friend from college was a reverse splitter (4.1/170) and barely missed Kent at CLS. Not sure that this proves anything other than that unbalanced applicants can do super well in law school.
4.1/170 is a splitter?
Maybe at Columbia, but still, CLS is probably not a great example because 90% of the class has 170+. A school which takes lots of both splitters and reverse splitters, like UVA, might be a better test case.

HeavenWood

Gold
Posts: 2890
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by HeavenWood » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:22 pm

dpk711 wrote:These are just people I know in law school so take it with a grain of salt. Most of the splitters I know (myself included) did above median their 1L year. The reverse-splitters I know though haven't fared as well. Again, I don't want to generalize, but it's a trend I've noticed at least among classmates I know.
You're more of a semi-splitter (who got in RD, at that), so lumping yourself in with the 170+s close to a 3.0 who snuck in the ED side door doesn't make much sense.

To throw in more anecdotal evidence, among the people I've discussed grades/numbers with, I haven't seen much of a correlation between LSAT/GPA and law school success. After all, most of us hover in the same LSAT ballpark. I wouldn't put money on a 171/3.2 outperforming a 167/4.0 (or vice versa). It's only when you get to people who score leaps and bounds below the median that score differences really start to mean something.

User avatar
spleenworship

Gold
Posts: 4394
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by spleenworship » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:10 pm

I was a splitter with a LSAT above my school's 75% and a GPA right at my school's 25%. I was top third at the end of 1L.

I know a reverse splitter who had a 4.0 and a below my school's median LSAT who is bottom 10%.

Anecdotal, but it seems to be the story across the board.

shock259

Gold
Posts: 1932
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by shock259 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:16 pm

Interesting question, but nothing but no real way to answer it (except for anecdotes and musings).

I was a splitter and I performed well. But I hit the ground running and studied about 1000 times harder than I did in undergrad.

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


HeavenWood

Gold
Posts: 2890
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by HeavenWood » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:24 am

spleenworship wrote:I was a splitter with a LSAT above my school's 75% and a GPA right at my school's 25%. I was top third at the end of 1L.

I know a reverse splitter who had a 4.0 and a below my school's median LSAT who is bottom 10%.

Anecdotal, but it seems to be the story across the board.
How far below the median though?

User avatar
queenlizzie13

Silver
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:30 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by queenlizzie13 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:33 am

Reverse splitter who did well. I traditionally do bad on standardized tests though. Still, I think as long as you are a similar range, LSAT score wise, you can do well. There's a lot more factors at play here.

User avatar
FlanAl

Silver
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by FlanAl » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:18 am

I know at least one splitter who didn't do super well.

User avatar
JoeFish

Bronze
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:43 am

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by JoeFish » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:36 am

Probably about exactly as well as non-splitters. Or, my guess (based on extremely simplistic reasoning) is that, since they were generally at opposite extremes of the two possible indicators, they have the same median but are more spread out about that median.

For what it's worth, I know of at least one splitter who did well by working really really hard, and at least one splitter who did well by doing almost no work and coasting by on natural ability. I basically only know the general performance of about 5 people total, so I really can't provide more than a couple isolated data points.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


User avatar
spleenworship

Gold
Posts: 4394
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by spleenworship » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:56 am

HeavenWood wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I was a splitter with a LSAT above my school's 75% and a GPA right at my school's 25%. I was top third at the end of 1L.

I know a reverse splitter who had a 4.0 and a below my school's median LSAT who is bottom 10%.

Anecdotal, but it seems to be the story across the board.
How far below the median though?

On academic probation. A 1.9 GPA I believe. So nearly 1.0 below median.

HeavenWood

Gold
Posts: 2890
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by HeavenWood » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:59 am

spleenworship wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I was a splitter with a LSAT above my school's 75% and a GPA right at my school's 25%. I was top third at the end of 1L.

I know a reverse splitter who had a 4.0 and a below my school's median LSAT who is bottom 10%.

Anecdotal, but it seems to be the story across the board.
How far below the median though?

On academic probation. A 1.9 GPA I believe. So nearly 1.0 below median.
I meant how far below the LSAT median.

User avatar
spleenworship

Gold
Posts: 4394
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by spleenworship » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:11 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I was a splitter with a LSAT above my school's 75% and a GPA right at my school's 25%. I was top third at the end of 1L.

I know a reverse splitter who had a 4.0 and a below my school's median LSAT who is bottom 10%.

Anecdotal, but it seems to be the story across the board.
How far below the median though?

On academic probation. A 1.9 GPA I believe. So nearly 1.0 below median.
I meant how far below the LSAT median.
Ah. 6 points. And our median that year was in the 150s.

User avatar
shepdawg

Bronze
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:00 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by shepdawg » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:25 pm

I know someone who had a high gpa and a very bad LSAT, and am top 2% as a 3L. I think hard work combined with the ability to cope with stress can overcome being stupid.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


HeavenWood

Gold
Posts: 2890
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by HeavenWood » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:33 am

shepdawg wrote:I know someone who had a high gpa and a very bad LSAT, and am top 2% as a 3L. I think hard work combined with the ability to cope with stress can overcome being stupid.
Or maybe not everyone who scores lower on the LSAT is stupid (and vise versa).

LiberalLaw

New
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:33 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by LiberalLaw » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:19 am

My own preformance: top half on LSAT and top ten percent of class after 1L.

User avatar
Icculus

Silver
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by Icculus » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:05 am

spleenworship wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I was a splitter with a LSAT above my school's 75% and a GPA right at my school's 25%. I was top third at the end of 1L.

I know a reverse splitter who had a 4.0 and a below my school's median LSAT who is bottom 10%.

Anecdotal, but it seems to be the story across the board.
How far below the median though?

On academic probation. A 1.9 GPA I believe. So nearly 1.0 below median.
Please tell me he/she is considering dropping out.

User avatar
spleenworship

Gold
Posts: 4394
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: How do Splitters Perform Once in Law School?

Post by spleenworship » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Icculus wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
spleenworship wrote:I was a splitter with a LSAT above my school's 75% and a GPA right at my school's 25%. I was top third at the end of 1L.

I know a reverse splitter who had a 4.0 and a below my school's median LSAT who is bottom 10%.

Anecdotal, but it seems to be the story across the board.
How far below the median though?

On academic probation. A 1.9 GPA I believe. So nearly 1.0 below median.
Please tell me he/she is considering dropping out.
Nope. Also doesn't want to be an attorney.

In their defense, they have full ride that is in no way GPA dependant.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Forum for Law School Students”