Top Law Schools

if someone pulled straight Cs to B-s would they still have a shot at biglaw. Lets say with no other significant selling points. Should said person drop out if they are biglaw or bust.

While I can't necessarily speak to your school, at NYU this would put you pretty squarely at the bottom of the class, what with Cs being discretionary and a maximum of 8% of test-takers in each course getting B- or lower. That's not a good position to be in if you're biglaw or bust. Is it just about the money?

Its about being able to afford the debt.

so does being near the bottom of class take someone out of the running for biglaw at these schools? I mean, someone has to be at the bottom of the class.

730 wrote:so does being near the bottom of class take someone out of the running for biglaw at these schools? I mean, someone has to be at the bottom of the class.

Yes it takes you out. especially ITE. That's the word on tha street

Fresh wrote:

730 wrote:so does being near the bottom of class take someone out of the running for biglaw at these schools? I mean, someone has to be at the bottom of the class.

Yes it takes you out. especially ITE. That's the word on tha street

I never said it was me. Also, if said person targets less prestigious firms, still out of luck?

Fresh wrote:

730 wrote:so does being near the bottom of class take someone out of the running for biglaw at these schools? I mean, someone has to be at the bottom of the class.

Yes it takes you out. especially ITE. That's the word on tha street

My completely unqualified 0L opinion says it is unlikely considering 60%ish of CCN seems to get biglaw SA's according to the OCI threads. That being said it is still possible and the obvious answer is to target the least selective firms at OCI (which are not necessarily the lowest firms in the V100) and mass-mail your home market.

But some of the left over 40 percent didn't want biglaw, they got clerkships, PI, gov, or academia? I feel like I could be wrong on this, but it seems like over 60 percent of people have a shot? Id love to hear more from people on this topic.

730 wrote:But some of the left over 40 percent didn't want biglaw, they got clerkships, PI, gov, or academia? I feel like I could be wrong on this, but it seems like over 60 percent of people have a shot? Id love to hear more from people on this topic.

ITE, not everyone gets biglaw haha. and that does not mean the remainder gets clerkships or PI/gov jobs that everyone is happy with. there are those at the bottom of the class who are not in a happy place, scrambling for a good job. will they HAVE a job coming out of CCN? more likely than not i think...but one that makes the whole law school experience (from a financial standpoint) worth it? questionable...

ppl who try to get biglaw...do strike out lol. and id imagine being at the bottom of the class would make one very strike out worthy.

730 wrote:But some of the left over 40 percent didn't want biglaw, they got clerkships, PI, gov, or academia? I feel like I could be wrong on this, but it seems like over 60 percent of people have a shot? Id love to hear more from people on this topic.

I don't remember whether it was that percent of the class or that percent of OCI participants (it was basically just a bunch of anecdotes compiled to give a rough idea). Even so, the percentage of people who do those things is very small in comparison and I doubt it would open up the original figure by that much.

DoubleChecks wrote:

730 wrote:But some of the left over 40 percent didn't want biglaw, they got clerkships, PI, gov, or academia? I feel like I could be wrong on this, but it seems like over 60 percent of people have a shot? Id love to hear more from people on this topic.

ITE, not everyone gets biglaw haha. and that does not mean the remainder gets clerkships or PI/gov jobs that everyone is happy with. there are those at the bottom of the class who are not in a happy place, scrambling for a good job. will they HAVE a job coming out of CCN? more likely than not i think...but one that makes the whole law school experience (from a financial standpoint) worth it? questionable...

ppl who try to get biglaw...do strike out lol. and id imagine being at the bottom of the class would make one very strike out worthy.

Wow. This sounds pretty right to me. Some people are striking out, I know this to be true. I wasn't sure if it was because of grades or bad interviewing, or bad bidding. But it seems like its mostly grades according to this, sounds like that might be it.

edit- id still like to hear counter opinions or confirming ones I suppose. So someone at the bottom of the class has less of a chance as someone at the top of the class at a lower ranked school?

At HYS I feel like everyone can get biglaw haha. In your position I would say unless you murder second semester you're out, although from CCN you still have a good shot at midlaw with median or even sub median grades. The school name will only carry you so far if you get straight C's this semester but you have a better safety blanket than someone at a T2.

730 wrote:But some of the left over 40 percent didn't want biglaw, they got clerkships, PI, gov, or academia? I feel like I could be wrong on this, but it seems like over 60 percent of people have a shot? Id love to hear more from people on this topic.

If 60 percent got biglaw and another 10 percent or so did clerkships thats now 70 percent. Id say theres probably an additional 10 percent or so that dont want it.

So from these very rough calculations, top 80% or so should have a fair to good shot at biglaw. Bottom 20%, might be out of luck. Sorry

So I can agree with those numbers, that leaves 20 percent with no big law...but is it the bottom 20 percent?

What market are you looking in? There is a thread where I did a calculation of biglaw jobs in NYC based solely on the NALP website and came up with a total of a little over 2200 jobs in NYC for associates in 2010. This thread is in a different section of the forums and possibly I started it in the incorrect location...sorry:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=144663

Also, fyi, we calculated how long it takes to pay back debt of $150,000

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=144827

Knowing the number of jobs might help you put it in perspective. There just aren't a huge number of jobs, and a noticable number of people who were SA got no offers.

I don't honestly think you have a chance at biglaw but I also think you need someone who knows what they are doing based on recent experience in the job market. Seek out good advice before you decide what to do. It is smart you are thinking through your options now instead of pretending that everything will be ok and somehow you will repay your loans.

Good luck.

730 wrote:So I can agree with those numbers, that leaves 20 percent with no big law...but is it the bottom 20 percent?

obviously not all...but i mean bottom 20% getting the job they want in biglaw is the exception to the rule. some bad bidders, some bad interviewers...but i mean, grades are probably the biggest factor out of those 3. i mean, bidding and interviewing there will be extremes, but those vary. grades...there will always be extremes as well, but by a % cutoff, they dont vary haha.

BarbellDreams wrote:At HYS I feel like everyone can get biglaw haha. In your position I would say unless you murder second semester you're out, although from CCN you still have a good shot at midlaw with median or even sub median grades. The school name will only carry you so far if you get straight C's this semester but you have a better safety blanket than someone at a T2.

eh i wouldnt say everyone. ITE, maybe ~80% who want biglaw get biglaw? rest who want biglaw might strike out for a lot of reasons (bad grades, bad interviewing, bad bidding, bad target markets, bad luck)...though i believe they still eventually get some job (midlaw? public sector leftover spots? i dont know).

730 wrote: edit- id still like to hear counter opinions or confirming ones I suppose. So someone at the bottom of the class has less of a chance as someone at the top of the class at a lower ranked school?

Yes. The school name only carries you so far. With that said, it is generally much easier to succeed from a high ranked school compared to a lower ranked school. Even at the bottom of your class at CCN you have a reasonable chance at a decent job upon graduation (not big law). Compare that to a T3 or T4 school where unless you are at the top of your class you likely are out of luck for any kind of decent job.

School name makes a huge difference, but big law firms tend to pull from only high ranked schools and they will usually take a high ranked student from a T14 or even T30 school (if in the region) over a bottom ranked student from CCN. Your (or whoever you are writing about) big law chances are not yet destroyed, but unless you pull some extremely high grades you are likely out of luck for big law.

This is a dumb question. Even if you're functionally retarded, most professors still give a gentleman's B at CLS. B-'s are relatively sparse, C's are almost unheard of, so if you can't pull a few Bs, you should rethink your life choices. While it's true that some people have to be at the bottom, given the curve, I'd imagine they were clustered around 3.0, not much lower.

JG Hall wrote:This is a dumb question. Even if you're functionally retarded, most professors still give a gentleman's B at CLS. B-'s are relatively sparse, C's are almost unheard of, so if you can't pull a few Bs, you should rethink your life choices. While it's true that some people have to be at the bottom, given the curve, I'd imagine they were clustered around 3.0, nothing lower.

this. i don't understand - if you want biglaw soooo bad why did you fuck around and get c's??

Please read more carefully. I already stated that I am not claiming these are my grades. Also the question and the subsequent questions are not phrased in the first person.

730 wrote:Please read more carefully. I already stated that I am not claiming these are my grades. Also the question and the subsequent questions are not phrased in the first person.

if said person wants biglaw soooo bad why did said person fuck around and get c's??

paulinaporizkova wrote:

730 wrote:Please read more carefully. I already stated that I am not claiming these are my grades. Also the question and the subsequent questions are not phrased in the first person.

if said person wants biglaw soooo bad why did said person fuck around and get c's??

Not everyone with a 2. something gpa f-ed around. Plus that is not really the question, the question is given that it happened.

Almost definitely out of the picture. There are plenty of people at these schools with significantly better grades who want BigLaw and strike out, people with those kinds of grades will almost uniformly miss it.

I didn't fuck around and I got a really bad grade. I feel like garbage.