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con law, crim, or civpro? so far i've only heard people voice negative opinions about civ pro....

najumobi wrote:con law, crim, or civpro? so far i've only heard people voice negative opinions about civ pro....

Heard from 1 friend: Civ Pro

but I imagine it varies from prof to prof

Civ Pro can be the hardest class if you don't put the proper work into it. Get the Gannon guide to civil procedure and use it all semester long while taking the class. You'll never be lost and come exam time you'll rock it while others are still hating civil procedure.

I would say torts requires more work than civil procedure. Civil procedure is very black and white. Once you know your civil procedure cold there is a right answer. They either have jurisdiction or they don't, and the possible motions, removal etc are all very straight forward. Just tons of memorization. Contracts is very similar.

Crim law is in between those two and torts. Once you have everything memorized application is typically pretty straight forward. Still have to make a judgment call and explain your reasoning.

Torts requires judgment calls on what you are going to do and what case law or statute will you use to support your answer, and hey goodluck spotting the potential 35 torts in the hypo. lmao In one small part of one essay answer I used, Polemis, Palsgraf, Wagon Mound I, Wagon Mound II, Keeton's risk analysis, Learned Hand's calculus of Negligence, Carrol Towing, etc to compare and contrast the different ways to analyze proximate causation. That being just one small part I needed to prove there was a tortious action my client could recover for.

Our Civ Pro prof assigned more work and analysis than any other prof I have ever heard of so for us civ pro was insane. After that I would actually say contracts was the most work. Torts was the least work for me because it seemed very clear and I barely ever needed the supplement.

evilxs wrote:Civ Pro can be the hardest class if you don't put the proper work into it. Get the Gannon guide to civil procedure and use it all semester long while taking the class. You'll never be lost and come exam time you'll rock it while others are still hating civil procedure.

I would say torts requires more work than civil procedure. Civil procedure is very black and white. Once you know your civil procedure cold there is a right answer. They either have jurisdiction or they don't, and the possible motions, removal etc are all very straight forward. Just tons of memorization. Contracts is very similar.

Crim law is in between those two and torts. Once you have everything memorized application is typically pretty straight forward. Still have to make a judgment call and explain your reasoning.

+ 1

I am REALLY not looking forward to having both Con Law and Property as semester only classes this spring though

I had far more reading in Torts than Civ Pro. Torts is just case law. You read a ton of cases in hopes that when you encounter an issue you'll be able to weigh the factors properly.

Civ Pro can be confusing. I don't think its a ton of work though.

Civ Pro might require the most work, but it's the most interesting imo.

jeremysen wrote:but I imagine it varies from prof to prof

This. My civ pro professor was very clear, and so people weren't usually confused -- but there haven't been any "right answers" for most questions posed so far, and it's the same with his old exams. They're all analysis-based (balancing tests and whatnot). It's still a lot of memorization, but that's certainly not all.

Basically, I don't think there's any real answer to this question.

depends on professor probably, but Civ Pro is so supplement friendly that I can see how it could be the least work too, though it's definitely been my least favorite class so far even with the least amount of work

Torts. Mainly because our Torts professor took a more old school method of teaching. Our Civ Pro class was fairly easy because our Civ Pro professor made things clear.

I agree with the above posters. The toughest class really depends on the professor. However, since we all have a mandatory grading curve, at the end of the day it probably won't matter much.

evilxs wrote:Torts requires judgment calls on what you are going to do and what case law or statute will you use to support your answer, and hey goodluck spotting the potential 35 torts in the hypo. lmao In one small part of one essay answer I used, Polemis, Palsgraf, Wagon Mound I, Wagon Mound II, Keeton's risk analysis, Learned Hand's calculus of Negligence, Carrol Towing, etc to compare and contrast the different ways to analyze proximate causation. That being just one small part I needed to prove there was a tortious action my client could recover for.

haha.

With the forced curve, at the end of the day i think difficulty of class is a less important distinction to make, that said, i'm sure there are a few 1L classes that require more "work" just to stay with the class. For example torts is pretty simple not a lot of concepts to learn, just gray areas and variations within a few concepts, mean while in contracts, you have to learn a bagillion rules and concepts, they aren't that hard, but there is a lot to go over. Thus contracts tends to require more "work" despite not being any "harder"

I hear that civ pro is a lot of work like contracts as there is a lot to memorize, but what you memorize isn't that complicated, still it tends to be everyone's least favorite class.

if you truly want to understand everything, I think Conlaw requires the most work.

I think a lot Con Law is a lot more work if you haven't studied history/poli sci. before and/or don't follow politics. It's a good amount of work either way, but there is a lot of assumption of knowledge of concepts in that class.

I really couldn't say. All of my courses had their own unique challenges presented by the materials and professors. However, I should mention that some people I know have referred to Torts as "the silent killer," and I think it's pretty appropriate. The doctrines and rules are simple enough, but there's something about the type of analysis required which made it distinct from my other courses--it just seemed more abstract. This makes for more subjective grading, meaning it's that much more important to know what your professor wants.

Con Law (maybe it wasn't that much work, I just hated it) > Civ Pro > Property/Contracts > Crim > Torts

I think most core upper divs are more work than 1L classes.

najumobi wrote:con law, crim, or civpro? so far i've only heard people voice negative opinions about civ pro....

Already taken all three. Civ. Pro by far. but I have nothing negative to say about Civ Pro. after 1.5 years in law school, it is still my favorite class BY FAR.

Yeah everyone rags on Civ Pro, but despite how I do on my exam tomorrow I found the class surprisingly interesting. I think it just depends on how you/your professor approaches the subject: try to see the course in the context of federalist issues and the power of courts, instead of as a list of rules to memorize.

beach_terror wrote:Civ Pro might require the most work, but it's the most interesting imo.

wat

jeremysen wrote:

najumobi wrote:con law, crim, or civpro? so far i've only heard people voice negative opinions about civ pro....

but I imagine it varies from prof to prof

Haven't we learned that this is ALWAYS TCR?