Top Law Schools

Hey all,

I'm a rising 2l at a Top 25 law school, in the top 10% of my class, who didn't make it onto any of our journals. I was wondering if any students have had a comparable experience and could give me some advice (hopefully positive) on how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

Thanks

You will likely still get many screening interviews but your interviewers will undoubtedly ask you why no journal.

Did you attempt the write-on? Did something happen that affected your performance during the write on period?

I have no idea what happened, I spent a week working diligently on the write on. I'm going to try and find some feedback but understand I will likely not find any.

goody687 wrote:I have no idea what happened, I spent a week working diligently on the write on. I'm going to try and find some feedback but understand I will likely not find any.

First. Try not to take it as an indication of your worth. Write-on grading is a disaster. Journal members one year older than you, annoyed that they have to grade 30 comments while they are working etc. Let's just say that you poring over every word does not get the same treatment in grading.

Bust mostly, you need to focus on interviewing. Given that you aren't on LR (or any journal) employers will want to know why you aren't. Lazy, pretentious, terrible writer... and some may even be outcome oriented re; journal and want you to show what you will do in its place so as to make yourself a better writer.

See if you can get into a clinic to show that you are interested substantive legal work and will likely be working diligently on improving your writing. You can also spin it so that you have something else on your plate that you care about a lot and journal/LR is just too time consuming to do both.

Get into seminar type classes so you can point to those and say you are focused on improving your writing ability.

If you're doing moot court, you can point to that as being the reason. Journal and moot court members will often discourage you from doing the other even at schools that allow you to do both.

Personally, I would say that whatever your answer to that inevitable question is. . . you need to own it. Don't be skiddish and fumble with your answer like you know that you screwed up. And even if they don't ask you, they will be thinking it, so make the answer come out in your interview without them asking. And that doesn't mean "oh, by the way, I didn't do journal because . . . " But showing that you are involved in other substantive legal endeavors (not law club xyz) that will take up a lot of your time and energy and that you are committed to.

Others will probably disagree but I think you will be alright. Just own the interviews and see what you can do between now and interviews to find something to "replace" journal with.

Are you in a city? If so - if I were you, I'd try for an internship somewhere - USAO, small firm, something to fill in the time, etc.

goody687 wrote:I was wondering if any students have had a comparable experience and could give me some advice (hopefully positive) on how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

goody687 wrote:how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

goody687 wrote:effected

you could transfer to a t14 and then there would not be much question about why you're not on a journal; at the same time you could impress interviewers as a go-getter.

ggocat wrote:

goody687 wrote:I was wondering if any students have had a comparable experience and could give me some advice (hopefully positive) on how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

goody687 wrote:how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

goody687 wrote:effected

"to produce as an effect; bring about; accomplish; make happen: The new machines finally effected the transition to computerized accounting last spring."

kk19131 wrote:

ggocat wrote:

goody687 wrote:I was wondering if any students have had a comparable experience and could give me some advice (hopefully positive) on how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

goody687 wrote:how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

goody687 wrote:effected

"to produce as an effect; bring about; accomplish; make happen: The new machines finally effected the transition to computerized accounting last spring."

--ImageRemoved--

Is the face palm due to the incorrect use of effected?

If not, I definitely missed something.

Yes, he used it wrong.

BunkMoreland wrote:Yes, he used it wrong.

Wrongly?

rando wrote:You will likely still get many screening interviews but your interviewers will undoubtedly ask you why no journal.

Did you attempt the write-on? Did something happen that affected your performance during the write on period?

Actually, there's a good chance no one will ask you. I know of 2 people in the top 10-15% of my class at a T25 who didn't even do the writing competition. Both of them got tons of screening interviews and several callbacks - both said that not a single interviewer asked why they weren't on a journal. Both got Biglaw SA positions this summer.

If you are top 10% I seriously doubt that not being on a journal would actually stop someone from hiring you. I think it plays more of a factor when someone's grades are lower, then journal might be the added plus factor that makes a firm take a second look. I wouldn't stress about it - you have amazing grades and at the end of the day, grades and personality are what firms really care about.

goody687 wrote:Hey all,

I'm a rising 2l at a Top 25 law school, in the top 10% of my class, who didn't make it onto any of our journals. I was wondering if any students have had a comparable experience and could give me some advice (hopefully positive) on how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

Thanks

Wonder why you missed all of the journals...

ggocat wrote:

kk19131 wrote:

ggocat wrote:

goody687 wrote:I was wondering if any students have had a comparable experience and could give me some advice (hopefully positive) on how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

goody687 wrote:how it effected their big law job search and future job prospects.

goody687 wrote:effected

"to produce as an effect; bring about; accomplish; make happen: The new machines finally effected the transition to computerized accounting last spring."

--ImageRemoved--

LOLz

I wouldn't stress too much. While having law review would be a plus, you have the grades and school to get a good job. One of my friends was in the top 10% but chose not to do a journal. He ended up with a solid firm job, although he did say he got questioned a lot about why no law review. Have an answer ready and don't evade the question. Write-on competition grading, despite the graders' best (or sometimes not so best) efforts, is subjective. I wouldn't take it as the authority on your ability as a writer or thinker.

What about moot court? Our moot court tryouts are (conveniently) after journal selections. If I don't get on a journal you can bet I am going to be working as hard as I can the rest of the summer on that competition. Then the interviewers may assume you wanted to do moot court instead, and if the question does come up you can steer the conversation toward moot court.

Also, I'm sorry about the journal competition. I think top 10% should be sufficient to grade on to at least some secondary journals at all schools. I assume all the secondary journals at your school are purely write-on?

Thank you everyone for the encouraging feed back. All of our journals are write on and I didn't rank all of them thinking that if I didn't get onto LR my grades would get onto at least my two back up options. Most have really messed up the competition...

goody687 wrote:Thank you everyone for the encouraging feed back. All of our journals are write on and I didn't rank all of them thinking that if I didn't get onto LR my grades would get onto at least my two back up options. Most have really messed up the competition...

Are you a BU student? I have friends in a similar boat - good grades, but ranked them so that if not LR, then they'd be relying on the writing competition - and journals basically never go to the third pick.

Its not the end of the world - you still have awesome grades.

rando wrote:

goody687 wrote:I have no idea what happened, I spent a week working diligently on the write on. I'm going to try and find some feedback but understand I will likely not find any.

First. Try not to take it as an indication of your worth. Write-on grading is a disaster. Journal members one year older than you, annoyed that they have to grade 30 comments while they are working etc. Let's just say that you poring over every word does not get the same treatment in grading.

Bust mostly, you need to focus on interviewing. Given that you aren't on LR (or any journal) employers will want to know why you aren't. Lazy, pretentious, terrible writer... and some may even be outcome oriented re; journal and want you to show what you will do in its place so as to make yourself a better writer.

See if you can get into a clinic to show that you are interested substantive legal work and will likely be working diligently on improving your writing. You can also spin it so that you have something else on your plate that you care about a lot and journal/LR is just too time consuming to do both.

Get into seminar type classes so you can point to those and say you are focused on improving your writing ability.

If you're doing moot court, you can point to that as being the reason. Journal and moot court members will often discourage you from doing the other even at schools that allow you to do both.

Personally, I would say that whatever your answer to that inevitable question is. . . you need to own it. Don't be skiddish and fumble with your answer like you know that you screwed up. And even if they don't ask you, they will be thinking it, so make the answer come out in your interview without them asking. And that doesn't mean "oh, by the way, I didn't do journal because . . . " But showing that you are involved in other substantive legal endeavors (not law club xyz) that will take up a lot of your time and energy and that you are committed to.

Others will probably disagree but I think you will be alright. Just own the interviews and see what you can do between now and interviews to find something to "replace" journal with.

This, and see if you can trun any seminar papers into artciles you can get published. Also think about writing for local bar rags, publishing something on your own looks pretty good on your resume.
And trust me on this, you domn't have to be a great writer to get published, you just got to edit a LOT. I suck at writing, but given enough time to edit, I've gotten stuff plublished.

Just wanted to follow up, received two offers today at V50 law firms. Thanks everyone for the encouraging words.

Awesome

goody687 wrote:Just wanted to follow up, received two offers today at V50 law firms. Thanks everyone for the encouraging words.

Awesome!! See? Who needs journal when they are freakin top 10%.

dakatz wrote:Awesome

goody687 wrote:Just wanted to follow up, received two offers today at V50 law firms. Thanks everyone for the encouraging words.

Awesome!! See? Who needs journal when they are freakin top 10%.

I can't tell if this is serious or soaked in sarcasm. I'd prefer the latter.

Join mock trial. You've got to have either this or a journal though obvi a journal is to be preferred if you want firm work.

Veyron wrote:Join mock trial. You've got to have either this or a journal though obvi a journal is to be preferred if you want firm work.

A. Moot point.
B. You haven't "got to have" either mock trial or journal if you want firm work. Maybe it helps some people, but it is by no means necessary, especially if one is in the top 10% of his or her class.