Top Law Schools

I'm a 1L at UCLA, wasting study time trying to figure out my class rank for last semester. I got a 3.6 (hoping to improve on that). Anyone know what that is roughly? Top 30%...worse?

Thanks.

the more data points you can provide the better. like what is median? are there other cutoffs that they do report? (e.g., the dean's list cutoff, the top 10% cutoff...)

They don't tell you for your own good. Trust me. If employers ask you what it is, you can honestly say "I don't know, they only give the precise rank to the top 10 students." If you're really curious the school will oftentimes tell you, but ask them to tell you a range within 5 or so... that way you can still say you don't know.

You Gotta Have Faith wrote:They don't tell you for your own good. Trust me. If employers ask you what it is, you can honestly say "I don't know, they only give the precise rank to the top 10 students." If you're really curious the school will oftentimes tell you, but ask them to tell you a range within 5 or so... that way you can still say you don't know.

even if they won't tell you, i imagine if you figure it out yourself using a z-table and other data points you can still safely say "i don't know." i tried doing mine last semester, think i got it pretty close, but would feel comfortable saying "i don't know" because i honestly could have easily messed it up somehow and in any case i'm not proficient enough with these types of statistical analyses to be certain with my calculations.

also, firms that you are interviewing with have prob been interviewing from your school for quite some time, and so have a rough-and-ready workable approximation of the GPA-class rank equation for your school.

Ah, I should have thought of that.

Median is 3.3. According to Volokh, at UCLA: "Recently, we shifted to a 25-29% As, 41-52% B/B+s, 18-22% B-s, and 5-8% Cs or below for first year classes."

If those are the overall numbers, does that mean 3.6 can't be higher than a 30%? If this is an obvious question than feel free to call me a moron with numbers, which I am.

Re the plausible deniability: that makes sense, but it would help to have a ballpark figure for my own sanity as I sit here in the library, imagining if I'll ever get hired.

Nightrunner wrote:

Yes, yes, I dimly remember this from high school stats class...I'm sure I can figure this out, just give me two weeks or so...heh.

You still can't tell without another data point saying what another % cutoff is.

But, I would be shocked if that's not top third. CLS has a median somewhere between 3.2 and 3.3 with 20-25% A/A-, 60-73% B/B+ and 7-15% B- and below (so, similar median, but more compressed curve), and our top 30% cutoff is 3.4. Top 3% is 3.8.

If I had to venture a total guess Top 30% is probably 3.4-3.5 based on what you've said. But it really depends on the exact distribution of B/B+s as well as how random the scatter is.

imchuckbass58 wrote:You still can't tell without another data point saying what another % cutoff is.

But, I would be shocked if that's not top third. CLS has a median somewhere between 3.2 and 3.3 with 20-25% A/A-, 60-73% B/B+ and 7-15% B- and below (so, similar median, but more compressed curve), and our top 30% cutoff is 3.4. Top 3% is 3.8.

If I had to venture a total guess Top 30% is probably 3.4-3.5 based on what you've said. But it really depends on the exact distribution of B/B+s as well as how random the scatter is.

i would second the general point being made here. Cornell's median is 3.35, and the top 30% was below a 3.5 (not by much, but below nonetheless). Top 10% was 3.72. you're probably in pretty solid shape.

A 3.6 at any law school with a 3.3 median is better than top 20%, but rarely better than top 10%.

Nightrunner wrote:The distribution of grade-points (which is, in a lot of ways, irrelevant to grade distrubution) determines the placement.

OP, find out the GPA of someone in the top X%. Then you'll have a damn good idea.

Although, for the record, I join in the "you're probably doing pretty well" ballparkers.

Interesting. I now realize what a willful ignorance of fundamental math concepts can do to your mental health. I actually spent two months of last semester believing an @$$hole who said that anything less than a 3.8 meant no dice for a biglaw job.

I will now spend the remaining days of finals searching for another data point, studying be damned.

BitterRoot wrote:Interesting. I now realize what a willful ignorance of fundamental math concepts can do to your mental health. I actually spent two months of last semester believing an @$$hole who said that anything less than a 3.8 meant no dice for a biglaw job.

I will now spend the remaining days of finals searching for another data point, studying be damned.

Get back to studying.

http://www.bcgsearch.com/pdf/BCG_Law_School_Guide_2009.pdf wrote:For purposes of comparison, during the 2005-2006 academic year, approximately 10% of the class of 2005 earned a cumulative grade point average at or above 3.682, and approximately 10% of the class of 2006 earned a cumulative grade point average at or above 3.636.

BitterRoot wrote:

Nightrunner wrote:The distribution of grade-points (which is, in a lot of ways, irrelevant to grade distrubution) determines the placement.

OP, find out the GPA of someone in the top X%. Then you'll have a damn good idea.

Although, for the record, I join in the "you're probably doing pretty well" ballparkers.

Interesting. I now realize what a willful ignorance of fundamental math concepts can do to your mental health. I actually spent two months of last semester believing an @$$hole who said that anything less than a 3.8 meant no dice for a biglaw job.

I will now spend the remaining days of finals searching for another data point, studying be damned.

MY school doesn't rank, but I was able to talk the OCS counselors into telling me roughly where I was. Might be worth a shot, if you haven't tried yet.

Class of 385 students

Top:
2.0% 4.05
10% 3.81 42
50% 3.35 198
Top 25%: 3.65

GPA: 3.70. The class rank estimator on another thread is broken. Is there a formula one can use to estimate class rank?

The stickied link still works, and even if it didn't, you could use the manual workaround provided.

I'm trying to figure this out for my school too. However, I'm a little confused because they changed the curve from a B- to a B curve starting this year, and I'm not sure how that affects the numbers from prior years.

Last year, the cutoff for Top 10% was 3.549. (Top 50% was 2.969+.) I'm at 3.589 right now, so last year that would have been Top 10%. But how would the change to the curve affect the GPA cutoffs?

I'm not very good at math.

Redzo wrote:I'm trying to figure this out for my school too. However, I'm a little confused because they changed the curve from a B- to a B curve starting this year, and I'm not sure how that affects the numbers from prior years.

Last year, the cutoff for Top 10% was 3.549. (Top 50% was 2.969+.) I'm at 3.589 right now, so last year that would have been Top 10%. But how would the change to the curve affect the GPA cutoffs?

I'm not very good at math.

wondering that too

Redzo wrote:I'm trying to figure this out for my school too. However, I'm a little confused because they changed the curve from a B- to a B curve starting this year, and I'm not sure how that affects the numbers from prior years.

Last year, the cutoff for Top 10% was 3.549. (Top 50% was 2.969+.) I'm at 3.589 right now, so last year that would have been Top 10%. But how would the change to the curve affect the GPA cutoffs?

I'm not very good at math.

I don't think this is enough info to figure out where your curve is. If it's the same distribution (like percentage on each tier is the same, just moved up a grade), then you can just subtract .33 from your GPA to get a rough idea of the rank. However, if the actual distributions have changed, you can't go off the previous curve so much to figure out what your approximate rank is.

(My school has an unbalanced curve, though, so it's near-impossible to calculate rank pretty much all the time.)

niederbomb wrote:Class of 385 students

Top:
2.0% 4.05
10% 3.81 42
50% 3.35 198
Top 25%: 3.65

GPA: 3.70. The class rank estimator on another thread is broken. Is there a formula one can use to estimate class rank?

You're top 16.48%

(Really inflated curve... has to be one of the worst I've seen)

D'Angelo wrote:

Redzo wrote:I'm trying to figure this out for my school too. However, I'm a little confused because they changed the curve from a B- to a B curve starting this year, and I'm not sure how that affects the numbers from prior years.

Last year, the cutoff for Top 10% was 3.549. (Top 50% was 2.969+.) I'm at 3.589 right now, so last year that would have been Top 10%. But how would the change to the curve affect the GPA cutoffs?

I'm not very good at math.

I don't think this is enough info to figure out where your curve is. If it's the same distribution (like percentage on each tier is the same, just moved up a grade), then you can just subtract .33 from your GPA to get a rough idea of the rank. However, if the actual distributions have changed, you can't go off the previous curve so much to figure out what your approximate rank is.

(My school has an unbalanced curve, though, so it's near-impossible to calculate rank pretty much all the time.)

Thanks for answering. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.