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Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:18 pm
by mikeytwoshoes
Just when you thought this shit was over for the year, you have to write a mini-note and do an incredibly tedious looking Bluebook exercise. Basically the Bluebook portion is subtly fucked up journal article. You have to go through and find as many citation mistakes as possible. Volokh recommends reading the Bluebook and whatever style manual the journal uses 3 times cover to cover before beginning.
This is another good reason why 0Ls shouldn't read E&Es before 1L. Even if you don't burn out before finals in your first semester, you almost certainly will after the second semester. Assuming you want LR on your resume, you can't afford to be burnt out. When you'd rather be at the beach, the ballgame, etc., you should be checking that damn journal article for Bluebook errors.
Discuss
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:23 pm
by rando
mikeytwoshoes wrote:Just when you thought this shit was over for the year, you have to write a mini-note and do an incredibly tedious looking Bluebook exercise. Basically the Bluebook portion is subtly fucked up journal article. You have to go through and find as many citation mistakes as possible. Volokh recommends reading the Bluebook and whatever style manual the journal uses 3 times cover to cover before beginning.
This is another good reason why 0Ls shouldn't read E&Es before 1L. Even if you don't burn out before finals in your first semester, you almost certainly will after the second semester. Assuming you want LR on your resume, you can't afford to be burnt out. When you'd rather be at the beach, the ballgame, etc., you should be checking that damn journal article for Bluebook errors.
Discuss
Have fun. I have to grade this crap. I'm not too thrilled. Advice - put something hilarious in your casenote. I will give you +100000
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:27 pm
by Leeroy Jenkins
I burned out before spring break and I spend 80% of my time outside of class (if I even go to class, lol!) drooling catatonically or sleeping until I get a headache.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 pm
by sayan
Style manual? Isn't the Blue book the style manual? And Volokh's Academic Legal Writing?
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:47 pm
by rando
sayan wrote:Style manual? Isn't the Blue book the style manual? And Volokh's Academic Legal Writing?
Texas law review manual on style and usage. I think there is a Chicago manual as well. Redbook by Garner.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:57 pm
by mikeytwoshoes
rando wrote:sayan wrote:Style manual? Isn't the Blue book the style manual? And Volokh's Academic Legal Writing?
Texas law review manual on style and usage. I think there is a Chicago manual as well. Redbook by Garner.
See 0L you would have to read 3 style manuals to adequately prep. If you want to really prep, you'd have to read Plain English for Lawyers and Strunk and White, The Elements of style. That's just for LRW and the write on competition.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:59 pm
by ConMan345
mikeytwoshoes wrote:rando wrote:sayan wrote:Style manual? Isn't the Blue book the style manual? And Volokh's Academic Legal Writing?
Texas law review manual on style and usage. I think there is a Chicago manual as well. Redbook by Garner.
See 0L you would have to read 3 style manuals to adequately prep. If you want to really prep, you'd have to read Plain English for Lawyers and
Strunk and White, The Elements of style. That's just for LRW and the write on competition.
http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-o ... mmar/25497
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:09 pm
by mikeytwoshoes
ConMan345 wrote:mikeytwoshoes wrote:rando wrote:sayan wrote:Style manual? Isn't the Blue book the style manual? And Volokh's Academic Legal Writing?
Texas law review manual on style and usage. I think there is a Chicago manual as well. Redbook by Garner.
See 0L you would have to read 3 style manuals to adequately prep. If you want to really prep, you'd have to read Plain English for Lawyers and
Strunk and White, The Elements of style. That's just for LRW and the write on competition.
http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-o ... mmar/25497
No one in the writing program or the law review cares.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:10 pm
by TTT-LS
The writing competition isn't actually that difficult. But as OP notes, it comes at a time of year where most people are just about out of energy. Yet another reason to come into 1L year with an absolutely full tank--something that absolutely cannot be attained through
reading law books.
As someone who graded writing competition entries last summer, a few points of advice:
1. Use headings, topic sentences, and an introductory roadmap to organize your note. These make it much easier for the reader to quickly understand and follow your argument, even if it isn't a great argument. A well-organized average note will usually get a better score than a poorly organized brilliant note, since readers have neither the time nor the inclination to find hidden gems in entries (if your competition is anything like ours, each reader is responsible for scoring well over 30 notes).
2. Offer a clear, well-defined argument. If you can't state your thesis in one, max two sentences, then it is too elaborate.
3. Follow the Bluebook conventions in your casenote. Journal editors--the ones grading your submissions--know the BB cold and will see errors immediately. Common mistakes: using ALWD stuff, like underlining case names; using 2nd Cir. instead of 2d Cir.; failure to abbreviate case names in footnotes per the tables in the back of the BB; failure to italicize signals or use small caps for book citations/newspaper names in citations; screwing up when periods go inside parentheticals and when they don't; failure to end each citation with a period.
4. For the love, don't use all kinds of annoying lawyer-speak in an effort to sound scholarly. Terms like heretofore, inter alia, and post-modern are just unnecessary. Short, crisp sentences are the way to go.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:16 pm
by SteelReserve
Volokh recommends reading the Bluebook and whatever style manual the journal uses 3 times cover to cover before beginning.
As a 2L on Law Review who also did a write-on, I'm not sure I'd recommend reading the Bluebook 3 times but I suppose it's not a bad idea. The reality is, depending on your school, the Bluebooking exercise is not valued much in terms of points. Usually the bulk of the points come from the comment and your grades.
BUT HERE IS MY TIP:
Read the
Table of Contents of the bluebook. It will show you all the issues that come up in bluebooking and give you the exact page to look to to resolve that issue.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:18 pm
by rando
TTT-LS wrote:
3. Follow the Bluebook conventions in your casenote. Journal editors--the ones grading your submissions--know the BB cold and will see errors immediately. Common mistakes: using ALWD stuff, like underlining case names; using 2nd Cir. instead of 2d Cir.; failure to abbreviate case names in footnotes per the tables in the back of the BB; failure to italicize signals or use small caps for book citations/newspaper names in citations; screwing up when periods go inside parentheticals and when they don't; failure to end each citation with a period.
Really good advice. + general case-name italicization and the difference between case names in textual sentences vs. citations.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:20 pm
by vanwinkle
I totally struck out at journal tryouts. You don't get that weekend of your life back if none of the journals invite you on. It's just gone forever, and for no reason.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:24 pm
by TTT-LS
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Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:26 pm
by TTT-LS
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Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:32 pm
by rando
TTT-LS wrote:vanwinkle wrote:I totally struck out at journal tryouts. You don't get that weekend of your life back if none of the journals invite you on. It's just gone forever, and for no reason.
Isn't this like saying your went all in with pocket aces and lost, therefore it was a bad bet? Sure, things might not work out, but the potential rewards--even if they don't materialize after the fact--are unquestionably worth the short-term effort for most students.
Not to mention the flipside. What if you only have mediocre grades and are having trouble finding a job/the job you want. LR may just be the thing to push you over the edge. One week of your life is bothering you? In relation to the ridiculous effort that you put into three years of law school, not trying out for journal is ridiculous.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:36 pm
by Mr. Matlock
Question from a dumbass:
Is it possible to write onto a journal with below median grades? Or are you not even asked to try out below a certain threshold?
0L shutting up now.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:39 pm
by vanwinkle
Mr. Matlock wrote:Question from a dumbass:
Is it possible to write onto a journal with below median grades? Or are you not even asked to try out below a certain threshold?
0L shutting up now.
At my school, the write-on competition is simply that, a competition that evaluates you based on your writing/editing ability. It does not factor grades in at all. They don't even know what your grades are (except LR, but they offer write-on spots that aren't contingent on grades, too). You can make any journal, even LR, without grades being a factor, though there are a limited number of spots available for doing so.
I imagine it's the same at other schools.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:41 pm
by Leeroy Jenkins
vanwinkle wrote:Mr. Matlock wrote:Question from a dumbass:
Is it possible to write onto a journal with below median grades? Or are you not even asked to try out below a certain threshold?
0L shutting up now.
At my school, the write-on competition is simply that, a competition that evaluates you based on your writing/editing ability. It does not factor grades in at all. They don't even know what your grades are (except LR, but they offer write-on spots that aren't contingent on grades, too). You can make any journal, even LR, without grades being a factor, though there are a limited number of spots available for doing so.
I imagine it's the same at other schools.
Some schools do a combo- grade/write-on competition
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:42 pm
by vanwinkle
TTT-LS wrote:vanwinkle wrote:I totally struck out at journal tryouts. You don't get that weekend of your life back if none of the journals invite you on. It's just gone forever, and for no reason.
Isn't this like saying your went all in with pocket aces and lost, therefore it was a bad bet? Sure, things might not work out, but the potential rewards--even if they don't materialize after the fact--are unquestionably worth the short-term effort for most students.
I didn't say don't do it, just that you don't get that weekend back if you don't make it. I do, however, think that journal tryouts aren't for everyone. Over 3/4 of the student body tried out here this year, and everyone's doing it ITE, not because they want to, but because they feel like they need it on their resume. There's not enough space on every journal for everyone, and those that aren't really dedicated to it should actually
consider not trying out because of the tryout costs (it really is a grueling weekend, especially if you're otherwise loading up your spring with things to improve your resume) and the potential for failure.
You don't always go all in with pocket aces. There are other things to consider. Sometimes you should and sometimes you shouldn't.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:44 pm
by rando
Leeroy Jenkins wrote:vanwinkle wrote:Mr. Matlock wrote:Question from a dumbass:
Is it possible to write onto a journal with below median grades? Or are you not even asked to try out below a certain threshold?
0L shutting up now.
At my school, the write-on competition is simply that, a competition that evaluates you based on your writing/editing ability. It does not factor grades in at all. They don't even know what your grades are (except LR, but they offer write-on spots that aren't contingent on grades, too). You can make any journal, even LR, without grades being a factor, though there are a limited number of spots available for doing so.
I imagine it's the same at other schools.
Some schools do a combo- grade/write-on competition
We offer grade-on to top 5%ish - the next 20 slots are mixed grade on/write on 33% being grades; 33% case note; 33% bb quiz. The other journals have grade on for top 10% that aren't accepted to LR and have a similar write-on procedure.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:31 pm
by mikeytwoshoes
Is there an actual difference between a note and a comment?
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:07 pm
by Leeroy Jenkins
mikeytwoshoes wrote:Is there an actual difference between a note and a comment?
I don't even know what either of those is
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:08 pm
by vanwinkle
mikeytwoshoes wrote:Is there an actual difference between a note and a comment?
I think only in which journal uses which title.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:21 pm
by ggocat
TTT-LS wrote:The writing competition isn't actually that difficult. But as OP notes, it comes at a time of year where most people are just about out of energy. Yet another reason to come into 1L year with an absolutely full tank--something that absolutely cannot be attained through reading law books.
As someone who graded writing competition entries last summer, a few points of advice:
1. Use headings, topic sentences, and an introductory roadmap to organize your note. These make it much easier for the reader to quickly understand and follow your argument, even if it isn't a great argument. A well-organized average note will usually get a better score than a poorly organized brilliant note, since readers have neither the time nor the inclination to find hidden gems in entries (if your competition is anything like ours, each reader is responsible for scoring well over 30 notes).
2. Offer a clear, well-defined argument. If you can't state your thesis in one, max two sentences, then it is too elaborate.
3. Follow the Bluebook conventions in your casenote. Journal editors--the ones grading your submissions--know the BB cold and will see errors immediately. Common mistakes: using ALWD stuff, like underlining case names; using 2nd Cir. instead of 2d Cir.; failure to abbreviate case names in footnotes per the tables in the back of the BB; failure to italicize signals or use small caps for book citations/newspaper names in citations; screwing up when periods go inside parentheticals and when they don't; failure to end each citation with a period.
4. For the love, don't use all kinds of annoying lawyer-speak in an effort to sound scholarly. Terms like heretofore, inter alia, and post-modern are just unnecessary. Short, crisp sentences are the way to go.
As usual, TTT-LS offers excellent advice.
I also reviewed casenotes last year. It was a closed competition, so students were limited to the sources they could use. Thus, it was incredibly difficult to say anything "brilliant." The best thing someone could do was have a good introduction: clear, simple, and meaningful. After reading the first page and glancing at the first page of footnotes, I had a decent idea of whether the entry was going in the yes, no, or maybe pile.
Re: Has anyone else looked at the old law review write on packet
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:22 pm
by Anonymous Loser
mikeytwoshoes wrote:Is there an actual difference between a note and a comment?
While the terms are often used interchangeably, in some journals a note typically discusses a recent
case, following a fairly rigid structure, and is quite short, where as a comment discusses an
issue, and is longer in length, as well as more probing in analysis.