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ICW's made easy
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:04 am
by pandacot
I don't know how many schools make students do the ridiculous Lexis ICW exercises, but here's my shortcut because, in my opinion, they are a waste of time.
Open ICW bluebook section in one window. Open corresponding ICW ALWD section in another window. Enter a character into ALWD answer box and click enter 3 times. The correct answer will be shown. Copy and paste to ICW Bluebook answer box. Done.
Some ALWD cites are different, but very few.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:06 am
by danquayle
pandacot wrote:I don't know how many schools make students do the ridiculous Lexis ICW exercises, but here's my shortcut because, in my opinion, they are a waste of time.
Open ICW bluebook section in one window. Open corresponding ICW ALWD section in another window. Enter a character into ALWD answer box and click enter 3 times. The correct answer will be shown. Copy and paste to ICW Bluebook answer box. Done.
Some ALWD cites are different, but very few.
Yeah, I did this too. Struck me as slightly unethical at the time. Made me hesitate for approximately .04 seconds.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:28 am
by LjakW
Why couldn't you have posted this at the beginning of the year????
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:29 am
by pandacot
I actually thought about how untimely the post was. Hopefully, it will save some future 1Ls.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:08 pm
by Renzo
WTF! I really could have used this last semester.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:12 pm
by Lermontov
tag
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:52 pm
by thexfactor
I always look up the case on lexis. Copy and paste the basic citation and then edit it to bluebook format. I spent over 3 hrs the other day doing citations.
sigh.. citations kept me from getting an A on my last paper.....
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:47 pm
by dbt
seriously where were you in august
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:40 pm
by XxSpyKEx
Someone should sticky this thread. I seriously wasted so much time on this ICW shit last year, and it was always such a pain in the ass. This is definetely something every TLS'er should know about.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:51 pm
by Renzo
XxSpyKEx wrote:Someone should sticky this thread. I seriously wasted so much time on this ICW shit last year, and it was always such a pain in the ass. This is definetely something every TLS'er should know about.
Naw, because Lexis would probably catch on and fix it.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:55 pm
by TTTennis
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:15 pm
by pandacot
Bumped for all incoming students. You will thank me with your first born. Unless you're barren, then I'll take your first adopted. Thanks.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:16 pm
by pandacot
betasteve wrote:Or you all could not be pussies and just do the ICWs... they aren't that hard...
K. Thanks.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:04 am
by worldtraveler
betasteve wrote:pandacot wrote:betasteve wrote:Or you all could not be pussies and just do the ICWs... they aren't that hard...
K. Thanks.
Seriously. Bluebooking is a lot like math, you only learn by doing. You are going to want to write on to Law review, you are going to want to do well on your memo/brief (assuming graded), and you are going to want to make your life easy if you do make a journal. There are no real shortcuts in law school; sometimes you need to suck it up and do work.
I don't know if every law school does this, but we have a bluebooking test in order to pass LRW. It's not that hard but if you don't actually learn to do it, it might be. Plus, at some point you'll have to figure it out anyway.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:57 am
by danquayle
betasteve wrote:pandacot wrote:betasteve wrote:Or you all could not be pussies and just do the ICWs... they aren't that hard...
K. Thanks.
Seriously. Bluebooking is a lot like math, you only learn by doing. You are going to want to write on to Law review, you are going to want to do well on your memo/brief (assuming graded), and you are going to want to make your life easy if you do make a journal. There are no real shortcuts in law school; sometimes you need to suck it up and do work.
Or you grade on.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:16 am
by jayn3
danquayle wrote:betasteve wrote:pandacot wrote:betasteve wrote:Or you all could not be pussies and just do the ICWs... they aren't that hard...
K. Thanks.
Seriously. Bluebooking is a lot like math, you only learn by doing. You are going to want to write on to Law review, you are going to want to do well on your memo/brief (assuming graded), and you are going to want to make your life easy if you do make a journal. There are no real shortcuts in law school; sometimes you need to suck it up and do work.
Or you grade on.
thanks, v helpful
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:49 pm
by Renzo
betasteve wrote:pandacot wrote:betasteve wrote:Or you all could not be pussies and just do the ICWs... they aren't that hard...
K. Thanks.
Seriously. Bluebooking is a lot like math, you only learn by doing. You are going to want to write on to Law review, you are going to want to do well on your memo/brief (assuming graded), and you are going to want to make your life easy if you do make a journal. There are no real shortcuts in law school; sometimes you need to suck it up and do work.
I agree with the sentiment, but the ICWs can be unnecessarily frustrating. There were some I got wrong, and when the correct answer displayed, it looked
exactly like my answer. String four of those together, and it'll make you batshit crazy. I would have liked to have known about this, just to keep my sanity in such situations--BUT I would still have put in honest effort to do them myself.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:12 pm
by pandacot
betasteve wrote:pandacot wrote:betasteve wrote:Or you all could not be pussies and just do the ICWs... they aren't that hard...
K. Thanks.
Seriously. Bluebooking is a lot like math, you only learn by doing. You are going to want to write on to Law review, you are going to want to do well on your memo/brief (assuming graded), and you are going to want to make your life easy if you do make a journal. There are no real shortcuts in law school; sometimes you need to suck it up and do work.
I fully agree. Bluebooking is a must learn. I just despised the ICWs due to redundancy, and I became annoyed by the interface.
The companion book for ICWs was useful.. but I still despise the site.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:36 am
by danquayle
pandacot wrote:betasteve wrote:pandacot wrote:betasteve wrote:Or you all could not be pussies and just do the ICWs... they aren't that hard...
K. Thanks.
Seriously. Bluebooking is a lot like math, you only learn by doing. You are going to want to write on to Law review, you are going to want to do well on your memo/brief (assuming graded), and you are going to want to make your life easy if you do make a journal. There are no real shortcuts in law school; sometimes you need to suck it up and do work.
I fully agree. Bluebooking is a must learn. I just despised the ICWs due to redundancy, and I became annoyed by the interface.
The companion book for ICWs was useful.. but I still despise the site.
Bluebooking is obnoxious because you really don't use it much at all in the practice of law. In fact, the only ones I know who actually use it are the law journals themselves. The professors who submit articles don't even adhere to bluebook. I fail to see why you all think its a must learn.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:25 pm
by danquayle
betasteve wrote:danquayle wrote:
Bluebooking is obnoxious because you really don't use it much at all in the practice of law. In fact, the only ones I know who actually use it are the law journals themselves. The professors who submit articles don't even adhere to bluebook. I fail to see why you all think its a must learn.
Because a) most schools still require a write on submission even if you grade on (i.e. good faith); b) because having properly bluebooked citations may be critical to your grade if you are at a school that isn't Pass/Fail; and c) because if you are able to get on a journal, your life will be fucking miserable if you don't know how to bluebook.
The only one of those reasons that makes sense is (b). Obviously you need to learn if you'll be graded on it. But understand the utility is really only a means of obtaining that grade. Unlike most other law school knowledge, the utility of that knowledge largely evaporates once you're out of law school. It's precisely because its based upon an arbitrary system.
Points a) and c) don't require that you be great, good or even proficient in blue booking. Merely passable.
I'm not saying you shouldn't learn bluebooking if you can. It's useful to a point. But certainly not to the extent that its taking away from your other studying. It's maybe the least important aspect of law school. The value in Legal Writing classes is learning how to lay out a properly IRAC... not the bluebooking.
Your time is a finite resource, and you're best off maximizing your return. I used the method suggested here to finish my ICWs in minutes. Then I used that time to study substance. I have no regrets.
Edit:
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http://yousirareanidiot.wordpress.com/2 ... e-remains/
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Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:32 am
by Renzo
Learning the rules is not the point; rather, the point is to learn how to find rules in the book quickly. It's useful to go through the ICWs as practice looking things up, so that you don't waste time later in life doing so. But there were times when I was looking at the rule, looking at my supposedly incorrect answer, and looking at the correct answer, and still couldn't figure out what I had done wrong. For times like that, this trick would have saved me some aggravation.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:34 am
by kalvano
I copied several straight from the book that the program said were wrong. They weren't. I hate that stupid program.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:18 pm
by BassQuark
You're assuming that these rules are set in stone and have never changed throughout antiquity. The basic concepts have stayed the same, sure. But there are tons of rules that change every. single. year. What we're all frustrated about is memorizing minutiae that is far from permanent and useful. All lawyers will consult BB or ALWD or whatever the local citations use. The point is to grasp the important concepts and theories of citation. Frustrating and time consuming ALWD exercises ignore the purpose of law school: teaching students how to think like a lawyer. Lawyers are detail-oriented, yes. But lawyers also double-check their work with a....(drum roll)....manual!
I'm one of the lucky ones though. My prof doesn't look at ours online. we just write them in the book and go through them at TA meetings.
Cheers
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:55 pm
by FlanAl
guess i'm necro ing this thread but just wanted to say to use this method with caution there are a lot more differences than I would have thought when I read the OP.
Re: ICW's made easy
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:39 am
by Emu
you sir are a genius.
like another poster pointed out, there ARE differences, but generally speaking this method gets you pretty far. ty.