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I guess I really just don't understand what a gunner is, since it's used in a variety of different situations here, and I apparently am missing the exact meaning of it.

As I understand it, a gunner is (should be) someone who is obnoxious and open in the fact that he thinks he is smarter/more prepared than you, and is going to try and prove it to your face. Someone who asks too many questions in class/gives his opinion instead of asking a question, or thinks his notes are better than the rest so he buys a screen shield (as I was told in another thread), or talks about how far ahead in the reading he is, etc.

What I do not understand is why pre-law-school prep automatically marks you as a gunner, or why reading ahead/working a bit extra if you so choose makes you one. If you aren't throwing that in people's faces, I don't think that the label applies.

If someone could clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it.

HAHAHAHA

chicagolaw2013 wrote:What I do not understand is why pre-law-school prep automatically marks you as a gunner, or why reading ahead/working a bit extra if you so choose makes you one. If you aren't throwing that in people's faces, I don't think that the label applies.

The primary definition of gunner is someone who talks all the time in class, etc, talks about how he reads all the E&E's, etc. The derision for gunners is based not just on their being annoying, but a level of contempt for their belief that simply "doing more" will lead to better grades.

It's that second reason why people call people who do 0L prep gunners. The widespread belief among 2Ls/3Ls is that it's rather ineffective, if not outright counterproductive, and reeks of the "simply doing more = better grades" mentality.

cardinalandgold wrote:

Be nice to Liz!

Exactly...I get that...but it still doesn't answer my question, why people who do extra work on their own and don't throw it in others' faces get labeled that way. I mean, if I choose to be in the library every night reading extra, I don't say anything to anyone about it, but people consistently SEE me in the library, would I be labeled one?

Not that I'd be one...I'll be lucky if I keep up on reading hahahaha...I'm just wondering, because it's used so much here that I think it's getting out of hand.

Hey Chicago2013. You are pretty much correct, as is Rayiner. I don't think working hard or trying to outperform your classmates is gunnerish by itself. If that was the case, I'd be the first one to admit that I am a die hard gunner.

My biggest problem with gunners is that they are social mutants. Remember the whole "that guy" thing? That's a gunner. There are annoying gunnerish people that are actually smart, but they are very rare.

A'nold wrote:Hey Chicago2013. You are pretty much correct, as is Rayiner. I don't think working hard or trying to outperform your classmates is gunnerish by itself. If that was the case, I'd be the first one to admit that I am a die hard gunner.

My biggest problem with gunners is that they are social mutants. Remember the whole "that guy" thing? That's a gunner. There are annoying gunnerish people that are actually smart, but they are very rare.

I understand now. I mean, I was called a gunner because I signed up for Law Preview. I'm doing it so I feel more comfortable during 1L (and for the goodies that come along with it that I won't have to buy later), not because I want to "show off" what I learned there during class to show how awesome I think I am or something. Actually, I hate being the center of attention, Socratic method scares me...hahaha...I don't plan on raising my hand too frequently, trust me.

chicagolaw2013 wrote:Exactly...I get that...but it still doesn't answer my question, why people who do extra work on their own and don't throw it in others' faces get labeled that way. I mean, if I choose to be in the library every night reading extra, I don't say anything to anyone about it, but people consistently SEE me in the library, would I be labeled one?

People won't call you a gunner for working hard. People will call you a gunner for doing things outside the normal course of behavior. Eg: obviously reading ahead in the casebook, looking up full case opinions online, etc.

You shouldn't worry too much about getting called a gunner. Eg: it's important to read ahead the last few weeks so you can get your outlines in shape and do practice tests. On the other hand, it's often a sign you're doing something inefficient or useless. Eg: signing up for law preview.

A'nold wrote:There are annoying gunnerish people that are actually smart, but they are very rare.

Hey! I represent that remark!

rayiner wrote:

A'nold wrote:There are annoying gunnerish people that are actually smart, but they are very rare.

Hey! I represent that remark!

Yo! What up brotha?

Chicago- another thing: People will call you a gunner for doing things like law preview b/c you are essentially trying to "get ahead," "get a jump start," etc. or even just "feel more comfortable." While this might be true, you have an absolute plethora (this is a gunner word, don't use it in school, haha) of people and advice on here, many of whom are top students, telling you that it is worthless. Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing, like you already know what's best even though you are a 0L. I chose not to do law preview or read anything about law prior to school based on the upper classmen on this website's advice, and I do not regret it. If you really, really want to know what you will be studying, why don't you pick up some of those 1 sheet cliff notes things at the law library?

Law School Confidential (which many of those people say is a good book to read prior to starting LS) talks about that program...

Yes, I'm sure that Robert Miller probably gets paid to promote the course, but I would hope that he isn't promoting something that is completely worthless. It probably won't make me first in my class...I don't expect it to...I personally just want to feel a little more comfortable with 1L classes, and being in a law school class in general (work on my concentration sitting for long periods, since I've been out of the academic environment for a while).

A'nold wrote:

rayiner wrote:

A'nold wrote:There are annoying gunnerish people that are actually smart, but they are very rare.

Hey! I represent that remark!

Yo! What up brotha?

Chicago- another thing: People will call you a gunner for doing things like law preview b/c you are essentially trying to "get ahead," "get a jump start," etc. or even just "feel more comfortable." While this might be true, you have an absolute plethora (this is a gunner word, don't use it in school, haha) of people and advice on here, many of whom are top students, telling you that it is worthless. Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing, like you already know what's best even though you are a 0L. I chose not to do law preview or read anything about law prior to school based on the upper classmen on this website's advice, and I do not regret it. If you really, really want to know what you will be studying, why don't you pick up some of those 1 sheet cliff notes things at the law library?

+1.

Moreover, a 1 week preview is going to do jack to help you feel more comfortable. I felt lost the first month and a half of school. That was a *good* thing --- it helped me separate important things from unimportant things, figure out what study habits worked best for me, etc. This bit of exploration at the beginning is IMHO crucial.

rayiner wrote:

A'nold wrote:

rayiner wrote:

A'nold wrote:There are annoying gunnerish people that are actually smart, but they are very rare.

Hey! I represent that remark!

Yo! What up brotha?

Chicago- another thing: People will call you a gunner for doing things like law preview b/c you are essentially trying to "get ahead," "get a jump start," etc. or even just "feel more comfortable." While this might be true, you have an absolute plethora (this is a gunner word, don't use it in school, haha) of people and advice on here, many of whom are top students, telling you that it is worthless. Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing, like you already know what's best even though you are a 0L. I chose not to do law preview or read anything about law prior to school based on the upper classmen on this website's advice, and I do not regret it. If you really, really want to know what you will be studying, why don't you pick up some of those 1 sheet cliff notes things at the law library?

+1.

Moreover, a 1 week preview is going to do jack to help you feel more comfortable. I felt lost the first month and a half of school. That was a *good* thing --- it helped me separate important things from unimportant things, figure out what study habits worked best for me, etc. This bit of exploration at the beginning is IMHO crucial.

Yeah, great post, that's another thing I forgot to mention. Law school basically comes down to embracing the grey. You were never taught this as an undergrad and no matter how much you think you know or you learn from us telling you, you will not really get this until the first month or so of class (some people never get it). You really aren't there to "learn" anything but a way of thinking.

A'nold wrote:Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing...

While I do think 0L prep is worthless, it's a little odd to call someone "bullheaded and self knowing" for not following the TLS consensus. Just so you know, even if it's from "top students," the TLS consensus carries no authority whatsoever.

Doodsmack wrote:

A'nold wrote:Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing...

While I do think 0L prep is worthless, it's a little odd to call someone "bullheaded and self knowing" for not following the TLS consensus. Just so you know, even if it's from "top students," the TLS consensus carries no authority whatsoever.

FUCK!??!! REALLY? This totally screws up my appellate brief. I cited TLS in at least 22 places. Phuck me.

The better question is who cares if someone calls you a gunner? Sure, a general rule in life is to not be obnoxious or monopolize discussions to show off. But beyond that, why not prepare to the best of your abilities and in a way you are most comfortable? People on this site seem obsessed with not be labeled a "gunner," but aren't we a little old to be affected by name calling?

jks289 wrote:The better question is who cares if someone calls you a gunner? Sure, a general rule in life is to not be obnoxious or monopolize discussions to show off. But beyond that, why not prepare to the best of your abilities and in a way you are most comfortable? People on this site seem obsessed with not be labeled a "gunner," but aren't we a little old to be affected by name calling?

queer

jks289 wrote:The better question is who cares if someone calls you a gunner? Sure, a general rule in life is to not be obnoxious or monopolize discussions to show off. But beyond that, why not prepare to the best of your abilities and in a way you are most comfortable? People on this site seem obsessed with not be labeled a "gunner," but aren't we a little old to be affected by name calling?

A common 0L response. You will see what we are talking about one day.

Edit: Hint: It's not "name calling" people are worried about

jks289 wrote:The better question is who cares if someone calls you a gunner? Sure, a general rule in life is to not be obnoxious or monopolize discussions to show off. But beyond that, why not prepare to the best of your abilities and in a way you are most comfortable? People on this site seem obsessed with not be labeled a "gunner," but aren't we a little old to be affected by name calling?

I spy a gunner.

jks289 wrote:The better question is who cares if someone calls you a gunner? Sure, a general rule in life is to not be obnoxious or monopolize discussions to show off. But beyond that, why not prepare to the best of your abilities and in a way you are most comfortable? People on this site seem obsessed with not be labeled a "gunner," but aren't we a little old to be affected by name calling?

Because nobody wants to be labeled as obnoxious? Especially at good schools, your peers are going to be valuable resources down the line. Many forms of 'gunning' are going to make you look anti-cooperative and/or foolish. Your reputation is very important.

jks289 wrote:The better question is who cares if someone calls you a gunner? Sure, a general rule in life is to not be obnoxious or monopolize discussions to show off. But beyond that, why not prepare to the best of your abilities and in a way you are most comfortable? People on this site seem obsessed with not be labeled a "gunner," but aren't we a little old to be affected by name calling?

GUNNER!

When does name calling ever get old?

Doodsmack wrote:

A'nold wrote:Ignoring that advice seems a little bullheaded and self knowing...

While I do think 0L prep is worthless, it's a little odd to call someone "bullheaded and self knowing" for not following the TLS consensus. Just so you know, even if it's from "top students," the TLS consensus carries no authority whatsoever.

O.k.........how many "top 5%" students do you know irl? How many are on this site? 20, 30? What percentage of them advocate pre-law prep? 5%? Out of the entire law school community, that's actually a pretty significant representation to get a feel for whether or not pre-law prep is worth it, I'd wager.