Top Law Schools

Hey TLS, longtime lurker but decided to make an account to see what ya'll think about my chances of getting in to Columbia, NYU, Penn via transfer.

I currently attend UT/UCLA/Vandy/USC/Wash U and I just received 3/4 of my 1L first semester grades and they aren't too hot at all...currently sitting at a 3.4 and still waiting for the class I think I bombed (Torts) to drop anytime now and ruin my dreams. Expecting it to be 3.2 - 3.4 ish depending on how I did in Torts (assuming that I didn't somehow do well lol)

I'm originally from Philly and spent 2 years working in NYC before coming to law school. Thus, I'm shooting for NYC Biglaw. Although I love my current school, I think it would be the right choice to transfer to Columbia, NYU, Penn, if possible, to maximize my chances at getting NYC Biglaw.

What GPA at the end of 1L give me a shot at transferring into any of those schools? Does it help that I'm transferring from a T20 instead of a TTT? I'm really curious as to whether schools would rather take a transfer applicant from a TTT with a 3.7 over a T20 applicant with a 3.4ish.

Thanks!

I don't think you have a good shot at those schools. I think you should focus more on the lower T14, like GULC.

Any GPA that gets you into those schools will already be good enough to get you biglaw. I'd guess that you'd need to be at least top 20-25% (and probably better than that), but those grades already put you in a great spot at your current school. Plus, most biglaw hiring is done at summer OCI before 2L year, which means that you won't have any grades from your new school.

01panm wrote:Any GPA that gets you into those schools will already be good enough to get you biglaw. I'd guess that you'd need to be at least top 20-25% (and probably better than that), but those grades already put you in a great spot at your current school. Plus, most biglaw hiring is done at summer OCI before 2L year, which means that you won't have any grades from your new school.

I think this is a bit misleading. Your GPA doesn’t matter nearly as much as ranking, and if you transferred to a T6 you’d only have a better shot at OCI despite grades. But since ranking is king, having a 3.4 doesn’t exactly tell us (or you) what you need to know (since the school could inflate or deflate their grades). It’s only Fall- you can def pull your grades up, but I totally agree 20-25% ranking would make you competitive for Biglaw.

Transferring can be much less predictable- I know ppl who were in the top third and successfully transferred and ppl who were top 15% and didn’t get in anywhere. All you can do is your best. Try to enjoy winter break and wait for the chips to fall where they may.

OP, in transfer cycle summer 2015, I got into NYU with a 3.53 from a T40. That put me below the 1L GPA median for my transfer class, but above the 25th percentile. I also have a friend who got into Columbia this past year with a low 3.5 (though if you look at their 509 form, that makes her decidedly a low outlier). If you stay the same or don't go up much, probably you won't have a good shot, I think if you can kill it this semester, you actually do have a good shot.

It's your call obviously, but I don't think T20 to lower T14 is worth it, especially if you're giving up a scholarship or clerkship recs from 1L professors (if that's something you're interested in). I think your opportunities and access to biglaw could be comparable between lower T14 and T20.

I think I would do the following:
1) Get and do the LEEWS course and/or (re)read Getting to Maybe. It's important that you conceptually master application of facts to law.
2) Debrief your fall exams with your professors or, if they won't do it with you, with a TA if possible.
3) Talk to upperclassmen students who had your spring professors and sure, get their outlines, but more importantly, ask them what matters to that professors and what sort of exam to expect.
4) Make a point of going to office hours if there are ever concepts you're not grasping. If nothing else, talk it out with classmates.
5) Evaluate your studying approach from the fall and commit to being more systematic for the spring. Prioritize classes that are weighted more--the 4 and 5 credit classes should get most of your attention, even if they're less interesting or less intuitive for you.
6) If you're a supplement person, ditch supplements that you feel aren't helping and find supplements that do. I really liked the "Acing ____" series because they organize courses by subtopics and outline subjects as they'll likely be tested. This wasn't the case 100% of the time, but especially in my civ pro class, Acing Civ Pro helped me shape my approach for handling each kind of subject methodically.

Definitely don't give up! You go to a good school and you didn't bomb, and you are in the zone where you can still go up to 3.5, 3.6 and give yourself a shot.

Columbia ABA 509: http://www.law.columbia.edu/sites/defau ... 9-29_1.pdf

NYU ABA 509: http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... Report.pdf
(notice their 25th percentile starts with a 3.49! That means 25% of their accepted class had a GPA lower than that!)

Penn ABA 509: https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/5191-aba-509 (no GPA report because they don't take many transfers)

SowhatsNU wrote:

01panm wrote:Any GPA that gets you into those schools will already be good enough to get you biglaw. I'd guess that you'd need to be at least top 20-25% (and probably better than that), but those grades already put you in a great spot at your current school. Plus, most biglaw hiring is done at summer OCI before 2L year, which means that you won't have any grades from your new school.

I think this is a bit misleading. Your GPA doesn’t matter nearly as much as ranking, and if you transferred to a T6 you’d only have a better shot at OCI despite grades. But since ranking is king, having a 3.4 doesn’t exactly tell us (or you) what you need to know (since the school could inflate or deflate their grades). It’s only Fall- you can def pull your grades up, but I totally agree 20-25% ranking would make you competitive for Biglaw.

Transferring can be much less predictable- I know ppl who were in the top third and successfully transferred and ppl who were top 15% and didn’t get in anywhere. All you can do is your best. Try to enjoy winter break and wait for the chips to fall where they may.

Yeah, I wasn't clear enough. I meant that any ranking that gives you a chance at Columbia/NYU/Penn (top 25% or above) is enough to get biglaw at a T20 school to begin with.

NoDayButToday wrote:OP, in transfer cycle summer 2015, I got into NYU with a 3.53 from a T40. That put me below the 1L GPA median for my transfer class, but above the 25th percentile. I also have a friend who got into Columbia this past year with a low 3.5 (though if you look at their 509 form, that makes her decidedly a low outlier). If you stay the same or don't go up much, probably you won't have a good shot, I think if you can kill it this semester, you actually do have a good shot.

It's your call obviously, but I don't think T20 to lower T14 is worth it, especially if you're giving up a scholarship or clerkship recs from 1L professors (if that's something you're interested in). I think your opportunities and access to biglaw could be comparable between lower T14 and T20.

I think I would do the following:
1) Get and do the LEEWS course and/or (re)read Getting to Maybe. It's important that you conceptually master application of facts to law.
2) Debrief your fall exams with your professors or, if they won't do it with you, with a TA if possible.
3) Talk to upperclassmen students who had your spring professors and sure, get their outlines, but more importantly, ask them what matters to that professors and what sort of exam to expect.
4) Make a point of going to office hours if there are ever concepts you're not grasping. If nothing else, talk it out with classmates.
5) Evaluate your studying approach from the fall and commit to being more systematic for the spring. Prioritize classes that are weighted more--the 4 and 5 credit classes should get most of your attention, even if they're less interesting or less intuitive for you.
6) If you're a supplement person, ditch supplements that you feel aren't helping and find supplements that do. I really liked the "Acing ____" series because they organize courses by subtopics and outline subjects as they'll likely be tested. This wasn't the case 100% of the time, but especially in my civ pro class, Acing Civ Pro helped me shape my approach for handling each kind of subject methodically.

Definitely don't give up! You go to a good school and you didn't bomb, and you are in the zone where you can still go up to 3.5, 3.6 and give yourself a shot.

Columbia ABA 509: http://www.law.columbia.edu/sites/defau ... 9-29_1.pdf

NYU ABA 509: http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... Report.pdf
(notice their 25th percentile starts with a 3.49! That means 25% of their accepted class had a GPA lower than that!)

Penn ABA 509: https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/files/5191-aba-509 (no GPA report because they don't take many transfers)

This is EXTREMELY helpful, thanks so much!! Would it be okay if I PM'ed you??

01panm wrote:

SowhatsNU wrote:

01panm wrote:Any GPA that gets you into those schools will already be good enough to get you biglaw. I'd guess that you'd need to be at least top 20-25% (and probably better than that), but those grades already put you in a great spot at your current school. Plus, most biglaw hiring is done at summer OCI before 2L year, which means that you won't have any grades from your new school.

I think this is a bit misleading. Your GPA doesn’t matter nearly as much as ranking, and if you transferred to a T6 you’d only have a better shot at OCI despite grades. But since ranking is king, having a 3.4 doesn’t exactly tell us (or you) what you need to know (since the school could inflate or deflate their grades). It’s only Fall- you can def pull your grades up, but I totally agree 20-25% ranking would make you competitive for Biglaw.

Transferring can be much less predictable- I know ppl who were in the top third and successfully transferred and ppl who were top 15% and didn’t get in anywhere. All you can do is your best. Try to enjoy winter break and wait for the chips to fall where they may.

Yeah, I wasn't clear enough. I meant that any ranking that gives you a chance at Columbia/NYU/Penn (top 25% or above) is enough to get biglaw at a T20 school to begin with.

That's definitely true! I forgot to mention this in my OP but I also have personal reasons for wanting to transfer as well. Would it be safe to say that if I have grades to get Biglaw from my school, I have a fighting chance at transferring?

jacketyellow wrote:I don't think you have a good shot at those schools. I think you should focus more on the lower T14, like GULC.

Thanks! I think it would be absurd to transfer from a T20 to a lower T14 (where Biglaw numbers are relatively similar) and where I would have to pay sticker.

.