Top Law Schools

4.072 1L gpa (4/4.15 sem split) @ T50-60. Probably have a shot at #1 for school but not sure (median likely 3.2-3.3).

Chances at S? Blanketing H/S/CCN + Berkeley currently. I want to practice in CA so S/B are likely top 2 choices. Not sure if Y app is worth it (though Pepperdine 1L did make it last year w/4.0).

Addt'l info: 2.47 UGPA, 167 lsat and 5 yrs of strong WE.

Goals - clerkship, likely big law, maybe academia or PI/policy after.

Would welcome any and all advice, thank you!

Not sure what you expect everyone to tell you here lol. CCN + B = good chances. HYS = reasonable at H, who knows about Y and S. But you already knew all of that.

Sorry if comes off as humble brag - mostly just worried about undergrad gpa (even though it's a small factor) and was curious about the stay and likely get full ride vs pay sticker given my long term goals.

Totally understand that TLS is no crystal ball, but sometimes good to crowd source and have a sounding board.

I would say that staying + full ride is the best move in terms of finances. You will get big law once you graduate and you will pretty much get to pocket all of it, instead of spending years to pay it off. And once you establish a good record, it won't really matter what school you came from, except for maybe a few unicorn jobs that you should not be betting your life on anyway. And frankly, a school in 50-60 range is not a trash can either.

I am also pretty sure that you will have a good chance at a clerkship from your school. I am pretty sure the whole institution would be willing to back you up, so I cant see how you could possibly not land a federal clerkship.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that transferring won't really open more doors for you (at least to justify lots of debt). Although maybe someone could weigh in otherwise.

Don't a lot of the T14 have like "LRAP" programs where the school basically forgives your debts? Maybe check into that.


I'd be nervous about big law from a 50/60 school. Like, I'm sure v100 firms would take you; but its also possible that your current school does very little to inform you/your class about how to even apply to such places. At my similarly ranked school; they told us pretty much nothing about v100-esk opportunities. It was only until I spent hours on TLS that I learned the value of a T14 or T20 network.

I'm no expert; but I think you should totally consider a transfer; you've certainly got the grades for it.

Shootin wrote:I would say that staying + full ride is the best move in terms of finances. You will get big law once you graduate and you will pretty much get to pocket all of it, instead of spending years to pay it off. And once you establish a good record, it won't really matter what school you came from, except for maybe a few unicorn jobs that you should not be betting your life on anyway. And frankly, a school in 50-60 range is not a trash can either.

I am also pretty sure that you will have a good chance at a clerkship from your school. I am pretty sure the whole institution would be willing to back you up, so I cant see how you could possibly not land a federal clerkship.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that transferring won't really open more doors for you (at least to justify lots of debt). Although maybe someone could weigh in otherwise.

I agree with Shootin. I would take full ride at your school actually, from any school ranging from 20 to 60 UNLESS you're trying for HYS. MAYBE for a CCN, but definitely not worth applying to Berkeley or GULC. Berkeley is slipping in the ranks due to various reasons (almost out of top 14), while CCN are on the rise. I would apply to HYSCCN (esp Stanford with your CA ties) and then weigh the opportunities. Many top students from the 50-60 law school like my roommate stayed at their respective school after getting a fat scholarship offer. He and I (from HLS) are working at the same big law firm and have encountered similar opportunities.

Thanks - 100% agree with you re: GULC. You don't think Chemerinsky @ B will boost their rankings back to T10?

I tend to be risk averse so always to pick the option that maximizes potential opportunities down the line. Main fear is that in 2-5 years after going into biglaw, I try to pivot to academia/public interest/etc. and cannot due to competition from T14 degree holders (vs my T50/60 degree).

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks - 100% agree with you re: GULC. You don't think Chemerinsky @ B will boost their rankings back to T10?

I tend to be risk averse so always to pick the option that maximizes potential opportunities down the line. Main fear is that in 2-5 years after going into biglaw, I try to pivot to academia/public interest/etc. and cannot due to competition from T14 degree holders (vs my T50/60 degree).

Very possible, but may take some time. Chemerinsky has done a fantastic job with Irvine, but T14 is a different beast. There are a lot of factors to consider which I've seen previously mentioned - declining CA bar passage rates, the bay area being the most competitive markets for jobs, and the presence of Stanford in the area. You also have to consider that it may have nothing to do with Chemerinsky and a lot to do with CCN and other schools just on the rise.

For your best shot at academia, Stanford or CCN must be the schools you target, especially with the GPA you described. Not Berk, GULC, UT or any of the lower T14 which are in danger of being out of T14

Based on what I've seen:
H = Likely in
S = Toss up (if you're in Cali now or have strong ties to Cali and can craft a strong personal statement around it, likely in)
Y = Hail mary (but worth a try)
CCN = In
Rest of t13/t15 = In

This all assumes that your application is sound. That means quality LORs from professors, a good personal statement (technically sound), and no C&F concerns.

The good news is that my feeling is (from my own experience) that GPA means more than class rank at the top schools. The fact that you can get over a 4.0 will help you. With a sound application, I think it's more likely than not you get H and/or S.

I think transferring is likely the right move based on your goals. Plus, H and S offer need-based aid to transfers, IIRC. I think Berkeley does too.

Sorry for late reply,but here you go.

4.0 at T2 will probably put you at top 2% if am not wrong.

If you are from UC Hastings, Columbia, UCLA, GWU are great options.

Also try Georgetown. Apparently they love transfers a lot.

lavarman84 wrote:Based on what I've seen:
H = Likely in
S = Toss up (if you're in Cali now or have strong ties to Cali and can craft a strong personal statement around it, likely in)
Y = Hail mary (but worth a try)
CCN = In
Rest of t13/t15 = In

This all assumes that your application is sound. That means quality LORs from professors, a good personal statement (technically sound), and no C&F concerns.

The good news is that my feeling is (from my own experience) that GPA means more than class rank at the top schools. The fact that you can get over a 4.0 will help you. With a sound application, I think it's more likely than not you get H and/or S.

I think transferring is likely the right move based on your goals. Plus, H and S offer need-based aid to transfers, IIRC. I think Berkeley does too.

CCN and GULC are great options.

Harvard - from what I have read.... HlS considers UG grades even for transfer students. Harvard generally avoids transfers whose GPA was not eligible for OL admission. Though OP has FANTASTIC 1L grades, still HYS will most likely raise brows over UGPA. Sure someone from Pepperdine transferred to HLS after 1l, but from what I have read about HLS's motto - that person probably had 3.5+ GPA or GPA above 3, with probably a poor LSAT.

If you know someone who transferred to HLS from a T2/T1 with a sub 3 UGPA , then of course its a different matter altogether.

Stanford does not take transfers from TT schools.

CCN, UCLA, GULC are all good options. I think transfer aspirants with sub 3.0 UGPA, should always have some safety 2L Transfer schools backed up along with target schools.

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry if comes off as humble brag - mostly just worried about undergrad gpa (even though it's a small factor) and was curious about the stay and likely get full ride vs pay sticker given my long term goals.

Totally understand that TLS is no crystal ball, but sometimes good to crowd source and have a sounding board.

Apply to Harvard. You certainly have the 1L grades for it , but please keep in mind, that HYS do consider UGPA - they have this mentality - anyone who's not eligible for OL admission is not eligible for admission to 2L either.

Stanford does not take in transfers from TT. Not sure about Yale.

But the rest of the T14 is in. CLS is a good shot, so is UCLA, GULC etc.

A person with 2.5ish GPA, actually transferred to Columbia from UC Hastings.

Since you are worried about your UGPA, I think you should blanket quite a few T14 schools. Like any OL aspirants with less than stellar UG grades, having target and safety transfer schools as well. Sorry for sounding paranoid lol.

I'm pretty sure applications were due by now? So applicants have had to decide already where to apply. Again, you're not a current student, you shouldn't be giving advice in the transfers forum.

DolnaRay wrote:

lavarman84 wrote:Based on what I've seen:
H = Likely in
S = Toss up (if you're in Cali now or have strong ties to Cali and can craft a strong personal statement around it, likely in)
Y = Hail mary (but worth a try)
CCN = In
Rest of t13/t15 = In

This all assumes that your application is sound. That means quality LORs from professors, a good personal statement (technically sound), and no C&F concerns.

The good news is that my feeling is (from my own experience) that GPA means more than class rank at the top schools. The fact that you can get over a 4.0 will help you. With a sound application, I think it's more likely than not you get H and/or S.

I think transferring is likely the right move based on your goals. Plus, H and S offer need-based aid to transfers, IIRC. I think Berkeley does too.

CCN and GULC are great options.

Harvard - from what I have read.... HlS considers UG grades even for transfer students. Harvard generally avoids transfers whose GPA was not eligible for OL admission. Though OP has FANTASTIC 1L grades, still HYS will most likely raise brows over UGPA. Sure someone from Pepperdine transferred to HLS after 1l, but from what I have read about HLS's motto - that person probably had 3.5+ GPA or GPA above 3, with probably a poor LSAT.

If you know someone who transferred to HLS from a T2/T1 with a sub 3 UGPA , then of course its a different matter altogether.

Stanford does not take transfers from TT schools.

CCN, UCLA, GULC are all good options. I think transfer aspirants with sub 3.0 UGPA, should always have some safety 2L Transfer schools backed up along with target schools.

Where did you hear that??

Harvard generally avoids transfers whose GPA was not eligible for OL admission.

I"ve found zero evidence of that.