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Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:27 am
by KijiStewart
Currently at mid-range TT and expect to finish top 5%.
I would like to start thinking of where I should/shouldn't go if I get in.
Here is how I see it:
1) Yale - won't get in
2) Stanford - go if get in (understand its a long-shot)
3) Harvard (-1) - go if get in (understand its a long-shot)
4) U Chicago - Heard some horror stories about it. Super competitive, no work/life balance?
5) Columbia (-1) - go if get in
6) NYU - go if get in
7) Penn - Tell me about it please someone who is there
Michigan - Tell me about it please someone who is there
UVA - Is it worth it, presuming I'm not on LR and I lose my prior class rank?
10) Duke (+1) - Not an option
10) Northwestern (+2) - Not an option
12) Berkeley (-4) - Not an option
13) Cornell - Not n option (NO OCI)
14) UT / GULC - Not an option
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:30 am
by Yugihoe
What are you asking? This is dumb without more information about you.
Generally, you go to the t14 where you get the most money, if there is any significant difference in that regard.
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:31 am
by KijiStewart
I've been told like 100 times that transfer students must pay full sticker ?
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:32 am
by Yugihoe
KijiStewart wrote:I've been told like 100 times that transfer students must pay full sticker ?
Oh oops I didn't read your OP carefully. What are your career aspirations? NYC Big law?
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:34 am
by KijiStewart
Big law (corporate litigation), but not necessarily NYC. I am thinking Big Law in any large metropolitan area (Chicago, SF, LA ...)
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:37 am
by stego
Why did you say pros and cons of each T14 when it sounds like you're really just asking about MVP
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:41 am
by KijiStewart
Feel free to advocate for the bottom T14 if you wish, but the consensus I have received is that the bottom T14 is just not worth transferring to because it kinda sucks to not be at LR at those schools and the recruiting opportunities are no better than being top 5% at a TT.
I'm on the fence about UVA, Michigan and Penn. I have a greater likelihood of getting in there than HYS/CCN but not sure if I should go.
What are the recruiting opportunities like there (especially for transfers)? Also, do people generally like being at those schools.
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:49 am
by sanzgo
KijiStewart wrote:Big law (corporate litigation), but not necessarily NYC. I am thinking Big Law in any large metropolitan area (Chicago, SF, LA ...)
if biglaw lit is your goal, then columbia should be first choice (after HYS of course), then nyu then chicago. chicago honestly sucks with its numerical grades and hyper-geeky culture but it has a small class so transfers fare well at chicago. if you're into that kind of culture, i guess you could put chicago before nyu but personally, if i'm going to nyc biglaw anyway, i'd rather attend school in the same city so as to avoid the hassle of subletting and all that. you should aim for nyc given that you're a non-t14 transfer unless you have substantial ties to a certain metropolitan market.
after ccn, i'd go with penn -> michigan. if you don't get into any of ccnpm, then you can come back here for advice. pretty sure you'll get at least one of those five.
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:29 pm
by excusez-moi
I got into Michigan but turned it down for NU. If you are aiming for Biglaw, I honestly don't see how the outcome would be different at MVPB and Duke/NU, maybe with the exception of Penn.
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:44 pm
by Transfer2016
From what I can gather, the Michigan transfer students did very well at OCI.
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:28 pm
by UVA2B
sanzgo wrote:KijiStewart wrote:Big law (corporate litigation), but not necessarily NYC. I am thinking Big Law in any large metropolitan area (Chicago, SF, LA ...)
if biglaw lit is your goal, then columbia should be first choice (after HYS of course), then nyu then chicago. chicago honestly sucks with its numerical grades and hyper-geeky culture but it has a small class so transfers fare well at chicago. if you're into that kind of culture, i guess you could put chicago before nyu but personally, if i'm going to nyc biglaw anyway, i'd rather attend school in the same city so as to avoid the hassle of subletting and all that. you should aim for nyc given that you're a non-t14 transfer unless you have substantial ties to a certain metropolitan market.
after ccn, i'd go with penn -> michigan. if you don't get into any of ccnpm, then you can come back here for advice. pretty sure you'll get at least one of those five.
This is really weird advice, given they are explicitly saying they want cities other than NYC, and most of it is hugely irrelevant.
OP: The T13 are functionally similar in outcomes with some gradation and geographic preference baked into their outcomes. If you want to end up in Chicago, NU is a better choice than Duke or UVA. If you want SF, Boalt is better than Penn or NYU. If you are really open-ended and want "other metro" BL>NYC BL, apply broadly and see what options you have.
As a transfer, apply broadly if cost of attendance is not a problem, and pick the best option for your desired market. Also important to consider whether transfers participate in a given school's OCI/major hiring event. There shouldn't be pros and cons for these schools beyond that.
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:20 am
by SoCalTacos
Re: UChicago, that stereotype is definitely overblown. I had the same concerns before coming, and it didn't hold up.
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:13 am
by foregetaboutdre
If you're a transfer you have a good reason to not be on LR to employers and a decent reason to not be on any journal during OCI. I did pretty well converting screeners to CBs w/o any journal as a transfer.
It's also pretty funny hearing feedback on some of my assignments like "very good bluebooking" when I didn't even journal...
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:49 pm
by CheddarArachnid
Uchicago is not weird, super competitive or 'nerdy or geeky'. It is small and is on the quarter system so you possibly take more finals than other law students. There is as much "work life balance" as you want. Sanzgo gave some weird advice. Uchicago places extremely well everywhere.
Re: Pros and Cons of Each T14
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 1:14 pm
by quiver
Apply broadly, then come back with:
quiver wrote:
-Your current law school (or as specific a range as possible) and the total debt at graduation if you were to stay (debt = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships - financing from sources other than loans.)
-The transfer schools you are considering and the total debt at each, at the time of graduation, if you were to transfer there.
-Where you're from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any).
-The type of job you are seeking directly following law school as well as your longer-term career goals.
-If you provided a range rather than your specific current law school, an assessment of how well your current school places graduates into your target market and your target jobs.
-Any other personal factors that may influence your decision (eg: being close to family, needing a market where your significant other can find a job, etc.)