Top Law Schools

- Top ~10% 1st semester GPA. 3+ years professional work experience. 171 LSAT. No leadership role at any law student organization.
- No-strings scholarship of $150k over three years. This puts me on track to graduate debt-free.
- Interested in biglaw, but preferably in LA or at least California. No ties, I just like the weather.
- No aspirations for clerkship, academia, or other "unicorn" jobs.
- Reasonably happy at current school; I'm not dying to get out.

1. What schools do I have a realistic chance at?

2. Should I even apply? I am thinking about it because:
(a) Maybe USC will offer me $ to stay (But how likely is that, given that I'm already getting $50k a year?)
(b) A vague concern that years down the road, some client or employer will look at "USC" and think to themselves, "Why hire this person when I can hire a HYS grad?"
(c) What if later on, I want to be in a different location? I imagine transferring up may give me a broader reach if I ever decide I want to leave California.

Top 10% at USC would get you pretty much any non-HYS T14.

Yes, a T14 degree will have more portability than USC since USC is a regional school. However, the common anecdote on TLS is that after a few years of work, since you are at a Top25 anyway, you could lateral to east coast despite not attending an east coast school. I think regional schools affect most substantially your first job more than later ones. That said, you are in a great position; good chances at Biglaw and debt free. Transferring would mean paying sticker, so graduating with around 100k debt. Your call.

Anonymous User wrote:- Top ~10% 1st semester GPA. 3+ years professional work experience. 171 LSAT. No leadership role at any law student organization.
- No-strings scholarship of $150k over three years. This puts me on track to graduate debt-free.
- Interested in biglaw, but preferably in LA or at least California. No ties, I just like the weather.
- No aspirations for clerkship, academia, or other "unicorn" jobs.
- Reasonably happy at current school; I'm not dying to get out.

1. What schools do I have a realistic chance at?

2. Should I even apply? I am thinking about it because:
(a) Maybe USC will offer me $ to stay (But how likely is that, given that I'm already getting $50k a year?)
(b) A vague concern that years down the road, some client or employer will look at "USC" and think to themselves, "Why hire this person when I can hire a HYS grad?"
(c) What if later on, I want to be in a different location? I imagine transferring up may give me a broader reach if I ever decide I want to leave California.

I'd stay. If you want LA or Cali big law, you need to establish some ties (going to school there is a start) - and jumping ship to nyu, Chicago, Columbia will, imo, be a tougher sell. Prob need slightly better grades for Harvard.

RaceJudicata wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:- Top ~10% 1st semester GPA. 3+ years professional work experience. 171 LSAT. No leadership role at any law student organization.
- No-strings scholarship of $150k over three years. This puts me on track to graduate debt-free.
- Interested in biglaw, but preferably in LA or at least California. No ties, I just like the weather.
- No aspirations for clerkship, academia, or other "unicorn" jobs.
- Reasonably happy at current school; I'm not dying to get out.

1. What schools do I have a realistic chance at?

2. Should I even apply? I am thinking about it because:
(a) Maybe USC will offer me $ to stay (But how likely is that, given that I'm already getting $50k a year?)
(b) A vague concern that years down the road, some client or employer will look at "USC" and think to themselves, "Why hire this person when I can hire a HYS grad?"
(c) What if later on, I want to be in a different location? I imagine transferring up may give me a broader reach if I ever decide I want to leave California.

I'd stay. If you want LA or Cali big law, you need to establish some ties (going to school there is a start) - and jumping ship to nyu, Chicago, Columbia will, imo, be a tougher sell. Prob need slightly better grades for Harvard.

OP here. Would a CCN acceptance work as a tactic to get more $ from USC?

Anonymous User wrote:

RaceJudicata wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:- Top ~10% 1st semester GPA. 3+ years professional work experience. 171 LSAT. No leadership role at any law student organization.
- No-strings scholarship of $150k over three years. This puts me on track to graduate debt-free.
- Interested in biglaw, but preferably in LA or at least California. No ties, I just like the weather.
- No aspirations for clerkship, academia, or other "unicorn" jobs.
- Reasonably happy at current school; I'm not dying to get out.

1. What schools do I have a realistic chance at?

2. Should I even apply? I am thinking about it because:
(a) Maybe USC will offer me $ to stay (But how likely is that, given that I'm already getting $50k a year?)
(b) A vague concern that years down the road, some client or employer will look at "USC" and think to themselves, "Why hire this person when I can hire a HYS grad?"
(c) What if later on, I want to be in a different location? I imagine transferring up may give me a broader reach if I ever decide I want to leave California.

I'd stay. If you want LA or Cali big law, you need to establish some ties (going to school there is a start) - and jumping ship to nyu, Chicago, Columbia will, imo, be a tougher sell. Prob need slightly better grades for Harvard.

OP here. Would a CCN acceptance work as a tactic to get more $ from USC?

Could be. Probably worth the cost of the application. Although, some schools won't negotiate for rising 2Ls. Absolutely no clue if USC is one of those schools.

Well within the top 10% a couple years ago and didn't transfer- glad I didn't considering I just wanted LA biglaw

No idea about negotiating with the other acceptances

No reason to transfer since you want LA/Cali biglaw and have great grades from a well-respected California law school. On top of that, you will graduate with a lot less debt at USC than elsewhere. I think this is one of the best examples of when transferring just doesn't make much sense.

Idk whether you should transfer or not, but I would apply to CC and see if you can use that to get more $$$ from USC. Might as well try right?

I'd apply to H and S and hell maybe even Y (for schools that you'd consider going to if you got in).

Then I'd apply to like Columbia, Berk, and NYU (which you probably will get into given you get the same grades) to leverage SC for $$$.

Staying at SC seems appealing to me if I were you.

I think you're a lock everywhere except Y/S; H isn't that selective. I also wouldn't be surprised if you got Y, S, or both. I'd be shocked if you didn't get CCN. I transferred into CCN from a T20 with substantially worse grades than you (top ~20%).

Seems like you're in a pretty much ideal situation. Great position to get biglaw in the market you want, and no debt at graduation. I'd stay put, no question.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:I think you're a lock everywhere except Y/S; H isn't that selective. I also wouldn't be surprised if you got Y, S, or both. I'd be shocked if you didn't get CCN. I transferred into CCN from a T20 with substantially worse grades than you (top ~20%).

While upbeat is great, this is really quite off as far as chances go.

H is not as selective as S or Y, true, but I know people in the top 2-3% at T-20s that didn't get in at H, much less top 10%. He's in the ballpark, but to suggest a lock is simply wrong.

Similarly, I wouldn't bother apping to Y if you aren't at least #2 in the class. They very rarely take *anyone* that's not already at a T14, and when they do, it's usually a unicorn that is also #1 in the class.

Joscellin wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:I think you're a lock everywhere except Y/S; H isn't that selective. I also wouldn't be surprised if you got Y, S, or both. I'd be shocked if you didn't get CCN. I transferred into CCN from a T20 with substantially worse grades than you (top ~20%).

While upbeat is great, this is really quite off as far as chances go.

H is not as selective as S or Y, true, but I know people in the top 2-3% at T-20s that didn't get in at H, much less top 10%. He's in the ballpark, but to suggest a lock is simply wrong.

Similarly, I wouldn't bother apping to Y if you aren't at least #2 in the class. They very rarely take *anyone* that's not already at a T14, and when they do, it's usually a unicorn that is also #1 in the class.

Think what you want. I could cite my shitty anecdotal data to shittily refute your shitty anecdotal data, but what's the point?

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

Joscellin wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:I think you're a lock everywhere except Y/S; H isn't that selective. I also wouldn't be surprised if you got Y, S, or both. I'd be shocked if you didn't get CCN. I transferred into CCN from a T20 with substantially worse grades than you (top ~20%).

While upbeat is great, this is really quite off as far as chances go.

H is not as selective as S or Y, true, but I know people in the top 2-3% at T-20s that didn't get in at H, much less top 10%. He's in the ballpark, but to suggest a lock is simply wrong.

Similarly, I wouldn't bother apping to Y if you aren't at least #2 in the class. They very rarely take *anyone* that's not already at a T14, and when they do, it's usually a unicorn that is also #1 in the class.

Think what you want. I could cite my shitty anecdotal data to shittily refute your shitty anecdotal data, but what's the point?

Way to double down on a pretty piss-poor opinion. OP should apply broadly, but outside of being one of the top 2 students at USC, OP's not getting admitted to Yale.

Also, Harvard rejects applicants in the top 10% from schools in the lower T-14 all the time. The odds are not bad coming from a T-14, but they're far from being a "lock."

You shouldn't really use your transfer into Columbia/NYU as indicative of anything...they routinely take median t-14 students as transfers. It's not surprising they'd take a top 20% T20 student willing to pay sticker

OP, you should apply to schools with the goal of getting USC to give you more money to stay. Even if they don't give you money, however, you should still stay.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

Joscellin wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:I think you're a lock everywhere except Y/S; H isn't that selective. I also wouldn't be surprised if you got Y, S, or both. I'd be shocked if you didn't get CCN. I transferred into CCN from a T20 with substantially worse grades than you (top ~20%).

While upbeat is great, this is really quite off as far as chances go.

H is not as selective as S or Y, true, but I know people in the top 2-3% at T-20s that didn't get in at H, much less top 10%. He's in the ballpark, but to suggest a lock is simply wrong.

Similarly, I wouldn't bother apping to Y if you aren't at least #2 in the class. They very rarely take *anyone* that's not already at a T14, and when they do, it's usually a unicorn that is also #1 in the class.

Think what you want. I could cite my shitty anecdotal data to shittily refute your shitty anecdotal data, but what's the point?

I mean, sure, talk out your ass more if you want.

My information comes from being a current H transfer from last cycle, from a school in the same band as OP (T20).

He's in the ballpark he needs to be in to make it worth applying, but suggesting that top 10% at USC is a lock at H is simply wrong, and badly so.

As to Yale, lol. Look at their 509's, they simply don't take people from below the T14 unless they're unicorns. Notice that last year, the *only* transfer they took outside T14 was one from Pepperdine, of all places (although they trolled a number of us pretty hard by sending us "Now that you've been accepted, here's your financial aid package" letters - without us actually getting in).

runinthefront wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

Joscellin wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:I think you're a lock everywhere except Y/S; H isn't that selective. I also wouldn't be surprised if you got Y, S, or both. I'd be shocked if you didn't get CCN. I transferred into CCN from a T20 with substantially worse grades than you (top ~20%).

While upbeat is great, this is really quite off as far as chances go.

H is not as selective as S or Y, true, but I know people in the top 2-3% at T-20s that didn't get in at H, much less top 10%. He's in the ballpark, but to suggest a lock is simply wrong.

Similarly, I wouldn't bother apping to Y if you aren't at least #2 in the class. They very rarely take *anyone* that's not already at a T14, and when they do, it's usually a unicorn that is also #1 in the class.

Think what you want. I could cite my shitty anecdotal data to shittily refute your shitty anecdotal data, but what's the point?

Way to double down on a pretty piss-poor opinion. OP should apply broadly, but outside of being one of the top 2 students at USC, OP's not getting admitted to Yale.

Also, Harvard rejects applicants in the top 10% from schools in the lower T-14 all the time. The odds are not bad coming from a T-14, but they're far from being a "lock."

You shouldn't really use your transfer into Columbia/NYU as indicative of anything...they routinely take median t-14 students as transfers. It's not surprising they'd take a top 20% T20 student willing to pay sticker

Boom! The ultimate Columbia/NYU burn? (Btw, I'm at Chicago.)

Anecdotal data is just that. Again, maybe my T20 school had above-average results the year I transferred. And, again, anecdotal-data fights are questionable. But from my school, several went to H, and one went to Y. They were all around the top 5-10% range.

That's my piece. Pontificate as before.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

runinthefront wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

Joscellin wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:I think you're a lock everywhere except Y/S; H isn't that selective. I also wouldn't be surprised if you got Y, S, or both. I'd be shocked if you didn't get CCN. I transferred into CCN from a T20 with substantially worse grades than you (top ~20%).

While upbeat is great, this is really quite off as far as chances go.

H is not as selective as S or Y, true, but I know people in the top 2-3% at T-20s that didn't get in at H, much less top 10%. He's in the ballpark, but to suggest a lock is simply wrong.

Similarly, I wouldn't bother apping to Y if you aren't at least #2 in the class. They very rarely take *anyone* that's not already at a T14, and when they do, it's usually a unicorn that is also #1 in the class.

Think what you want. I could cite my shitty anecdotal data to shittily refute your shitty anecdotal data, but what's the point?

Way to double down on a pretty piss-poor opinion. OP should apply broadly, but outside of being one of the top 2 students at USC, OP's not getting admitted to Yale.

Also, Harvard rejects applicants in the top 10% from schools in the lower T-14 all the time. The odds are not bad coming from a T-14, but they're far from being a "lock."

You shouldn't really use your transfer into Columbia/NYU as indicative of anything...they routinely take median t-14 students as transfers. It's not surprising they'd take a top 20% T20 student willing to pay sticker

Boom! The ultimate Columbia/NYU burn? (Btw, I'm at Chicago.)

Anecdotal data is just that. Again, maybe my T20 school had above-average results the year I transferred. And, again, anecdotal-data fights are questionable. But from my school, several went to H, and one went to Y. They were all around the top 5-10% range.

That's my piece. Pontificate as before.

Isn't part of the fun of transferring that it is a complete blackbox? It depends on the cycle, applicants and cranky admissions folks... Maybe we should stay away from blanket generalizations. No one is a lock for anything! But I can say that someone... not naming any names is still a little salty over Yale's rejection last cycle.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

runinthefront wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:

Joscellin wrote:

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t wrote:I think you're a lock everywhere except Y/S; H isn't that selective. I also wouldn't be surprised if you got Y, S, or both. I'd be shocked if you didn't get CCN. I transferred into CCN from a T20 with substantially worse grades than you (top ~20%).

While upbeat is great, this is really quite off as far as chances go.

H is not as selective as S or Y, true, but I know people in the top 2-3% at T-20s that didn't get in at H, much less top 10%. He's in the ballpark, but to suggest a lock is simply wrong.

Similarly, I wouldn't bother apping to Y if you aren't at least #2 in the class. They very rarely take *anyone* that's not already at a T14, and when they do, it's usually a unicorn that is also #1 in the class.

Think what you want. I could cite my shitty anecdotal data to shittily refute your shitty anecdotal data, but what's the point?

Way to double down on a pretty piss-poor opinion. OP should apply broadly, but outside of being one of the top 2 students at USC, OP's not getting admitted to Yale.

Also, Harvard rejects applicants in the top 10% from schools in the lower T-14 all the time. The odds are not bad coming from a T-14, but they're far from being a "lock."

You shouldn't really use your transfer into Columbia/NYU as indicative of anything...they routinely take median t-14 students as transfers. It's not surprising they'd take a top 20% T20 student willing to pay sticker

Boom! The ultimate Columbia/NYU burn? (Btw, I'm at Chicago.)

Anecdotal data is just that. Again, maybe my T20 school had above-average results the year I transferred. And, again, anecdotal-data fights are questionable. But from my school, several went to H, and one went to Y. They were all around the top 5-10% range.

That's my piece. Pontificate as before.

you're trying to frame everyone else's argument as "my anecdata is better than your anecdata." Nobody is saying that. Everyone is just pointing out that NOBODY is a lock for H at just top 10% in a 15-20 school, DESPITE the little bit of anecdata that might suggest otherwise. If anything, you're the one trying to get the most mileage out of your anecdotal evidence. hth

runinthefront wrote:OP, you should apply to schools with the goal of getting USC to give you more money to stay. Even if they don't give you money, however, you should still stay.

This honestly no reason to transfer.