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Dear hive-mind -

I am currently in a school ranked in the 70s and got into Harvard Law School. Mainly concerned about the following: won't be in LR in Harvard (didn't do the writing comp in May because I was taking finals at my current school), the impact that might have on getting a future clerkship (I am on top of my class at my old school and made LR), financial aid, and generally not doing well at HLS if I do transfer. Any advice would be much welcome!

Did you just find out, or did you hear back last Thursday?

Got a call late Thursday evening, got the official email on Friday. Why?

xyxyxy wrote:Dear hive-mind -

I am currently in a school ranked in the 70s and got into Harvard Law School. Mainly concerned about the following: won't be in LR in Harvard (didn't do the writing comp in May because I was taking finals at my current school), the impact that might have on getting a future clerkship (I am on top of my class at my old school and made LR), financial aid, and generally not doing well at HLS if I do transfer. Any advice would be much welcome!

Not making law review at HLS shouldn't impact your chances of getting a clerkship at all. You'd be at HLS and were top of your class at your old school, you'll be just fine.

But, on your resume definitely put next to your old school "Offered Law review position."

Congratulations on getting in, this is a huge accomplishment.

HLS has great clerkship services so go talk to them and see what you can do. Will you be trying out for a secondary journal?

.

NoDayButToday wrote:Go to Harvard and join a secondary journal--as I understand it, some have open membership and some are by application.

@Goldie has had a lot of good stuff on HLS and clerkships before, specifically with regards to recommendations. Hopefully s/he will chime in.

I second what Mr. Logic says re: putting l. rev. under your old law school for as long as you keep your old LS on it: "Invited to join ___ Law Review."

Sorry yeah "invited to join Law Review" is a much better way of saying it.

mister logical wrote:

xyxyxy wrote:Dear hive-mind -

I am currently in a school ranked in the 70s and got into Harvard Law School. Mainly concerned about the following: won't be in LR in Harvard (didn't do the writing comp in May because I was taking finals at my current school), the impact that might have on getting a future clerkship (I am on top of my class at my old school and made LR), financial aid, and generally not doing well at HLS if I do transfer. Any advice would be much welcome!

Not making law review at HLS shouldn't impact your chances of getting a clerkship at all. You'd be at HLS and were top of your class at your old school, you'll be just fine.

But, on your resume definitely put next to your old school "Offered Law review position."

Congratulations on getting in, this is a huge accomplishment.

HLS has great clerkship services so go talk to them and see what you can do. Will you be trying out for a secondary journal?

Hi - thanks so much for your reply! I have a list of questions for Harvard - I will add talking to someone from clerkship services on my list. Yes I will definitely try out for a secondary journal - I want to be a better writer/bluebooker and hope that a secondary journal can help me with that, despite the fact that it's not LR.

Is it customary for transfer students to include their 1L school information on their resumes?

NoDayButToday wrote:Go to Harvard and join a secondary journal--as I understand it, some have open membership and some are by application.

@Goldie has had a lot of good stuff on HLS and clerkships before, specifically with regards to recommendations. Hopefully s/he will chime in.

I second what Mr. Logic says re: putting l. rev. under your old law school for as long as you keep your old LS on it: "Invited to join ___ Law Review."

Hi - thanks for your response! I am so new at this (forum) - is there a way to search for or invite @goldie to this thread? Or search for her/his old po

xyxyxy wrote:Dear hive-mind -

I am currently in a school ranked in the 70s and got into Harvard Law School. Mainly concerned about the following: won't be in LR in Harvard (didn't do the writing comp in May because I was taking finals at my current school), the impact that might have on getting a future clerkship (I am on top of my class at my old school and made LR), financial aid, and generally not doing well at HLS if I do transfer. Any advice would be much welcome!

Congrats on getting in! We'll probably be transfer buddies this fall )

FinAid is a valid concern if you're losing a big scholarship. I know for me, I would have jumped at Harvard on the first go round, and transferring in is basically like getting one year free. As to journal, I would wager that a secondary at Harvard would outweigh law review at your old school, but someone with more authority can speak to that.

As to doing well at HLS, don't discount yourself. Getting into HLS originally depends on doing well on 'indicators' that you would do well in law school. You've already one-upped that, though. You've already proven that you can do exceptionally well at law school, and being at the top of your class at any legitimate school is notably tougher than simply being above average at even HLS. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

xyxyxy wrote:

mister logical wrote:

xyxyxy wrote:Dear hive-mind -

I am currently in a school ranked in the 70s and got into Harvard Law School. Mainly concerned about the following: won't be in LR in Harvard (didn't do the writing comp in May because I was taking finals at my current school), the impact that might have on getting a future clerkship (I am on top of my class at my old school and made LR), financial aid, and generally not doing well at HLS if I do transfer. Any advice would be much welcome!

Not making law review at HLS shouldn't impact your chances of getting a clerkship at all. You'd be at HLS and were top of your class at your old school, you'll be just fine.

But, on your resume definitely put next to your old school "Offered Law review position."

Congratulations on getting in, this is a huge accomplishment.

HLS has great clerkship services so go talk to them and see what you can do. Will you be trying out for a secondary journal?

Hi - thanks so much for your reply! I have a list of questions for Harvard - I will add talking to someone from clerkship services on my list. Yes I will definitely try out for a secondary journal - I want to be a better writer/bluebooker and hope that a secondary journal can help me with that, despite the fact that it's not LR.

Is it customary for transfer students to include their 1L school information on their resumes?

Absolutely, in fact you have to because that's the only information employers will have until you get your 2L fall grades, and even then you should leave your 1L school on your resume until you graduate. I did and it hasn't caused me any problems. if you don't it seems disingenuous because you'd be making it seem like you were a 1L at HLS.

Don't put so much stock in HLS law review, very few people are on it, and basically everyone at HLS is successful in the legal market. You made it to the best law school in the country, so don't worry about law review

OP, I am in a similar position. All of the advice I've received has advised to accept at H. I believe you are required to list your 1L school on your resume, and including "Invited to Law Review" will look great alongside your surely strong GPA/rank numbers.

I am very interested to hear if anyone (@Goldie?) has information about which secondary journals are best to pursue for someone hoping to secure a clerkship. Obviously HLR is out for those of us who didn't do the writing competition. But assuming all secondaries are still possible, should any receive higher preference than others?

Looking forward to meeting you in the Fall, OP!

.

NoDayButToday wrote:

xyxyxy wrote:

NoDayButToday wrote:Go to Harvard and join a secondary journal--as I understand it, some have open membership and some are by application.

@Goldie has had a lot of good stuff on HLS and clerkships before, specifically with regards to recommendations. Hopefully s/he will chime in.

I second what Mr. Logic says re: putting l. rev. under your old law school for as long as you keep your old LS on it: "Invited to join ___ Law Review."

Hi - thanks for your response! I am so new at this (forum) - is there a way to search for or invite @goldie to this thread? Or search for her/his old po

You can search by user/author!

Also re: leaving 1L school on resume
Different schools have different policies and some have no policy. Once I had accumulated enough activities and honors at my new school, I dropped my 1L school (ca. 2L mid-fall). I don't list a range of dates of attendance, so there's no affirmative suggestion that I was at my new school for 1L. I don't hide my 1L school (I include those transcripts with my new school's transcripts and will talk about my 1L school in interviews/with other people). I just don't think it needs to take up 3-5 lines on my resume anymore when it doesn't add anything / takes away from the potential to add elsewhere. I would keep it on for EIW/EIP/OCI/etc. but afterwards just follow whatever your school says. If they're silent, keep or drop it as you please as long as you don't misrepresent the range of time you've attended HLS.

Edit: @Bilbo, you should do whichever journal you would be interested in working on. Journals are time-consuming and are more tolerable if you're doing it in a subject area you enjoy, with people who share your interests.

Thank you!

Bilb0Baggins wrote:OP, I am in a similar position. All of the advice I've received has advised to accept at H. I believe you are required to list your 1L school on your resume, and including "Invited to Law Review" will look great alongside your surely strong GPA/rank numbers.

I am very interested to hear if anyone (@Goldie?) has information about which secondary journals are best to pursue for someone hoping to secure a clerkship. Obviously HLR is out for those of us who didn't do the writing competition. But assuming all secondaries are still possible, should any receive higher preference than others?

Looking forward to meeting you in the Fall, OP!

Congrats! That's amazing, hope to meet you in the Fall as well. May I ask if you know anything about financial aid?

Joscellin wrote:

xyxyxy wrote:Dear hive-mind -

I am currently in a school ranked in the 70s and got into Harvard Law School. Mainly concerned about the following: won't be in LR in Harvard (didn't do the writing comp in May because I was taking finals at my current school), the impact that might have on getting a future clerkship (I am on top of my class at my old school and made LR), financial aid, and generally not doing well at HLS if I do transfer. Any advice would be much welcome!

Congrats on getting in! We'll probably be transfer buddies this fall )

FinAid is a valid concern if you're losing a big scholarship. I know for me, I would have jumped at Harvard on the first go round, and transferring in is basically like getting one year free. As to journal, I would wager that a secondary at Harvard would outweigh law review at your old school, but someone with more authority can speak to that.

As to doing well at HLS, don't discount yourself. Getting into HLS originally depends on doing well on 'indicators' that you would do well in law school. You've already one-upped that, though. You've already proven that you can do exceptionally well at law school, and being at the top of your class at any legitimate school is notably tougher than simply being above average at even HLS. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Hey - thank you and congrats to you as well! Are you transferring into HLS this Fall? If you have any input on financial aid, I'm trying to figure it out myself, would be grateful to hear your input!

xyxyxy wrote:

Bilb0Baggins wrote:OP, I am in a similar position. All of the advice I've received has advised to accept at H. I believe you are required to list your 1L school on your resume, and including "Invited to Law Review" will look great alongside your surely strong GPA/rank numbers.

I am very interested to hear if anyone (@Goldie?) has information about which secondary journals are best to pursue for someone hoping to secure a clerkship. Obviously HLR is out for those of us who didn't do the writing competition. But assuming all secondaries are still possible, should any receive higher preference than others?

Looking forward to meeting you in the Fall, OP!

Congrats! That's amazing, hope to meet you in the Fall as well. May I ask if you know anything about financial aid?

I don't have any additional information, but it sounds like the financial aid office is available to answer questions (and that there will be more for us to do once we've accepted, gotten our University ID, etc.). This website looks helpful: http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/financial-aid/

xyxyxy wrote: Hey - thank you and congrats to you as well! Are you transferring into HLS this Fall? If you have any input on financial aid, I'm trying to figure it out myself, would be grateful to hear your input!

I will be most likely coming to HLS, though I'm technically waiting on Yale still. (not holding my breath)

As to finaid, the information email seems to say that you can start the process once you have your HLS email (which will be generated once you commit). If you haven't yet, you could go ahead and send them your FAFSA or start getting documents together (if you watch the videos on the finaid website, there's some documents that seem pretty standard - notably parents tax info if you're under 29).

Joscellin wrote:

xyxyxy wrote: Hey - thank you and congrats to you as well! Are you transferring into HLS this Fall? If you have any input on financial aid, I'm trying to figure it out myself, would be grateful to hear your input!

I will be most likely coming to HLS, though I'm technically waiting on Yale still. (not holding my breath)

As to finaid, the information email seems to say that you can start the process once you have your HLS email (which will be generated once you commit). If you haven't yet, you could go ahead and send them your FAFSA or start getting documents together (if you watch the videos on the finaid website, there's some documents that seem pretty standard - notably parents tax info if you're under 29).

Same here - still waiting on Yale. I hope they get back to us soon enough / before Thursday. And thanks again for your reply.

I'm a former HLS transfer

Don't worry about not doing well. People generally stop trying after 1L year. I went from t-14 to HLS, and although one can sense that the student body at H is generally more intelligent than most other schools, it won't stop you from doing well if you really want it.

It's completely up to you whether you want to gun for latin honors. The only risk of you not doing well is your own drive, or lack thereof, upon starting at HLS.

Regarding clerkships: Do you have recommenders at your current school? Are they willing to still write letters for you if you transfer? If not, that will delay you a bit for clerkships but it's not a reason to stay if you want to go. You'll just have to make an effort to get to know professors at Harvard.

I also am confused as to why people keep "Invited to _____ Law Review" on their resume after they transfer. Seems like a waste of space.

Hey guys! Congrats on getting into Harvard!

I was #1 in my class at a mid-30s school and was also worried about not being on LR, clerkships, money, and how I'd do if I transferred. I seriously thought about not transferring. Pretty much everyone I knew told me to transfer. I did, and I'm so glad I did.

LR: if you didn't do the write-on, it's no longer an option. And that sucks. But you'll be fine. Many of Harvard's secondary journals are ranked higher overall than the law reviews at our 1L schools. And everyone who finds out you are a transfer will understand why you aren't on HLR (employers, judges, etc). I still felt really bad about not being on LR, and I may have overcompensated, but I ended up joining two secondary journals (later ran for EIC of one of them). There are no tryouts to join a secondary journal - you just walk on. There are editing tests/tryouts for at least some of the higher positions on some secondary journals, but you'll be able to join any one you want. I think you might as well just join whichever journal(s) are in the subject area you are most interested in. (Or don't join one at all - one of my closest friends transferred to another school, didn't do a journal at all, and says it was the best decision he ever made. He has a great clerkship and everything.) As far as which might help the most for a clerkship, the only real advice is that if you're right of center and want to clerk for a right of center judge, do the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy. If you're left of center and want to clerk for a left of center judge, maybe do the Harvard Law & Policy Review or one of the other liberal journals. But, especially if you're left of center, pick a journal you'll be happy with, because I'm not sure how much of a boost being on one of those really is when it comes to clerkships.

Clerkships: I started applying to clerkships around the end of 2L fall, got more serious once I had my first semester of Harvard grades, and lined up a good COA clerkship in the mid-spring. Several other transfers also have district and/or circuit clerkships lined up as well. I think the key to having a good clerkship experience is maintaining good relationships with your 1L professors and getting them to write letters. It takes some time and effort to get to know HLS professors as a 2L, so you'll be relying mostly on 1L professors. Some professors/schools may be better than others about this, but I had no problems. If your professors do give you problems, you can focus on getting to know professors during 2L/3L at Harvard and apply for a clerkship a year or two after you graduate. If things go well at Harvard, you'll be in a better position as a Harvard grad then even the top of your class at a 70s school.

Money: Money can definitely make this a hard decision, and it was the biggest drawback for me when considering the transfer. But I think, even at sticker, that Harvard is worth it. Your grades and class rank will matter less as time goes on, but the school you graduated from will stay on your resume forever, and that's worth an extra $120k. But HLS does offer need-based aid to transfers so hopefully it won't be that costly.

Grades: The good news is that you don't have to do all that well at Harvard to still be in a great position. You won't have to worry about LPs (if you're good enough to transfer, getting Ps is no problem at all), and as they say around HLS, "Ps get degrees." But transfers can do better than just Ps too. Some transfers regularly get Hs and DSs. So you'll have the option of either putting the pedal to the metal and gunning for good grades, or having a more relaxed 2L and 3L, and either way you'll be fine. There are transfers doing both and everyone has great jobs.

Bottom line, even as #1 at a mid-30s school, transferring was the right decision for me. And I'd have to think it would be even more of a no-brainer from somewhere in the 70s. Reach out if you have questions, either here or on the Facebook group. If you're in NY, you might have just missed a happy hour the NY transfers are doing, but if you're in DC, the DC transfers will be doing a happy hour tomorrow.

Oh, and regarding resume, I still have my 1L school on there, with my class rank/GPA/etc. I also have a line about being invited to the law review there, and a line about the research work I did. All of that stuff can still matter for at least a year or two. Most of that will go away eventually, but it's staying there at least until I graduate and run out of space.

From a T20, transferring from top of the class with a scholarship and law review is debatable, and from another T14 its highly questionable. From a school "ranked" outside the T1, you can be very confident that transfering to HLS is the right call.