Top Law Schools

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:43 pm**

"deleted"

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:34 pm**

You should work on maintaining your grades and target the T14. Just how much of the T14 will be within your range depends on where you end up - we can't predict much when you still don't have 3/4 of your 1L grades.

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:43 pm**

CheddarArachnid wrote:Hello everyone. I am a longtime lurker on these forums and finally got the guts to post once I got my grades. I go to a school in the low 40's and as of this posting have a 3.94 which would put me in the top 10% maybe the top 5% of my class. I am waiting for two more 2 credit grades which I will likely not move my GPA below a 3.78 in the worst scenario, which would still leave me in the top 15% of my class. That being said, I strongly dislike my school and want to transfer out at all costs! What kind of schools should I be targeting? In terms of career goals, I want to work in big-law.

The answer here is so contingent upon what happens to your GPA after next semester and personal priorities that ultimately you yourself will be the only one able to answer this question. I am not sure what kind of scholarship you have at your current school. If you are paying sticker or close to sticker, by all means transfer as high as your GPA will take you. But be wary about statements like "want to transfer out at all costs." If you finish high enough in your class to transfer to the T14 then you will have likely performed well enough to land a solid job in a desirable market. If you absolutely must have biglaw then transfer. The only difference transferring would afford you would be a more prestigious degree when you graduate and short-term benefits since you hate your current school. If you have a full scholarship at your current school, and you're looking at transferring to the bottom T14, I would think long and hard about your priorities. Transferring to any T14 will result in $100,000 or more in debt for an outcome that could potentially be achieved from your current school.

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:31 pm**

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:48 pm**

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:23 pm**

You should be easily able to transfer into the T14. I would get 3 letters of recs if possible at a min 2. Make sure you able to write a 1 page letter why you want to transfer to that school in the T14. Also, remember it is not always greener pasture at the other side.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:22 am**

CheddarArachnid wrote: So should I not attempt an early application anywhere? I understand Georgetown takes a high number of transfers and U Chicago also has a early application process. Do I have any chance at either of those schools? What kind of GPA's are even required for the T14?

GULC and Chicago are the only ones in the T14 that do an early transfer app, and they are notably different in that UChi's is binding, but GULC is not (though they do hit you up for a couple hefty seat deposits).

Depending on where you are, GULC may or may not be a forward move for you from top 5-10% at your current school. Chicago, on the other hand, most certainly would be.

If you know you are interested in transferring (with the knowledge that the costs are substantial: giving up top 5% grades, likely grading onto LR, friendships etc), I would ED Chicago for sure, unless you want to hold out for a shot at H. As for GULC, that would depend on the balancing I mentioned above, though it would only really cost $$.

Posted: **Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:20 pm**

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Posted: **Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:21 pm**

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:39 pm**

Thank you so much for your reply.

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:34 pm**

CheddarArachnid wrote:Thank you so much for your reply. I am really nervous for asking for letters, I will hold off until later in the semester. I still have a 3.9 and only one 2 unit course to come in now. I hope the TLS community won't judge me, but what is CCN? Also what kind of numbers get into HYS? I see the GPA's on the ABA transfer disclosure form are in the high 3.8's to 3.9s but are those from the other T14? It is impossible to know for sure, but would it be a waste of money to apply to HYS?

CCN = Columbia, UChicago, and NYU

To get into H, you'll need to be in the top 2% of your class at worst. And even then it's not guaranteed. If you're #1 in your class, it's likely you'll get in. Anything less than that and you aren't assured of anything. It helps if you're from a school in the Northeast (especially Boston).

For Stanford, you get a boost for being at a California school or having strong California ties. You need the same sort of stats for the same outcomes. But Stanford is less likely than Harvard because they accept significantly less transfers. If you're not at a California school, you basically need to be #1 or #2 in your class.(or be top 1-2% and have an awesome resume)

Yale is a complete mystery. Odds are that you won't get in from a school in the 40s. Would need to be #1 or #2 in your class and have a really strong resume to stand a strong chance.

With a 3.9, I'd say you're likely in to at least one of CCN if not all three. But it's not a guarantee.

If you keep your GPA in the 3.9s, it's not a waste of money to apply to HYS.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:08 pm**

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Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:11 pm**

CheddarArachnid wrote:Stanford (Go ~~Bears~~ Trees)

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:19 pm**

CheddarArachnid wrote:Thank you so much for your response! Regarding Stanford (Go Bears) I have extremely strong CA ties, resident, strong ties with the UC system but I do not attend a CA law school. I also have a strong California resume for what its worth.

From what I can project on my law schools GPA rankings, if I maintain my grades and keep a 3.9 for both semesters I would be in the top 10 students but not within the top 1-2%. This leads me to a strong feeling that I should apply to U-Chicago ED. This feeling mostly because of my anxiety about maintaining such a high GPA. That being said, is there a marked advantage to applying to Chicago early?

The advantage to applying ED to Chicago is that you get to leverage having grades from only one semester. If you drop some second semester you might not get in with them looking at your grades from both semesters. The disadvantage, if you are accepted ED, is that you lock yourself into going to Chicago (can you really call that a disadvantage?). So even if you knock it out of the park this semester, if you've been accepted ED to Chicago, you're going there. Also know that a lot of ED apps get deferred to RD and its no longer binding once that happens.

Posted: **Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:04 pm**

CheddarArachnid wrote:Thank you so much for your response! Regarding Stanford (Go Bears) I have extremely strong CA ties, resident, strong ties with the UC system but I do not attend a CA law school. I also have a strong California resume for what its worth.

From what I can project on my law schools GPA rankings, if I maintain my grades and keep a 3.9 for both semesters I would be in the top 10 students but not within the top 1-2%. This leads me to a strong feeling that I should apply to U-Chicago ED. This feeling mostly because of my anxiety about maintaining such a high GPA. That being said, is there a marked advantage to applying to Chicago early?

Couldn't hurt to try. You might get into Stanford. They really seem to value CA ties. But yea, you'll need to stay in the 3.9s. Also possible you could get into Harvard. Not going to be a lock or anything, though. It'll depend where you are in the 3.9s.

You could ED to Chicago if you want to go there and know you want to transfer (so you don't risk your grades dropping). It's a safe way to go. Up to you. But the opportunity cost is applying to schools like Stanford, Harvard, etc. if your grades go up.

Posted: **Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:08 pm**

Thanks for all the advice. I got my final grade back which pushed my GPA to a 3.95. I will probably be applying to Chicago ED. I will let you all know! I think I am in the top 5% for sure now.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:05 pm**

philippian413 wrote:You should be easily able to transfer into the T14. I would get 3 letters of recs if possible at a min 2. Make sure you able to write a 1 page letter why you want to transfer to that school in the T14. Also, remember it is not always greener pasture at the other side.

The bolded is bull shit.

The underlined is ignorant.

You can easily write your ticket into the upper t-14s. Not sure I agree with taking the Ed at chicago, b/c of your good shot at H.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:23 pm**

lawman84 wrote:Yale is a complete mystery. Odds are that you won't get in from a school in the 40s. Would need to be #1 or #2 in your class and have a really strong resume to stand a strong chance.

I can confirm - #1 in my class at a mid-30s school (w/ 4.0 GPA) and didn't get into Yale.
I did get into Harvard, and I am there now.
My transcript from my 1L school got lost in the mail for Stanford, so no response from them.
Got into Chicago (regular decision); got rejected from Penn; got into Michigan. I didn't apply to any other schools.

As far as grass not always being greener, there is something to that, at least immediately. It was a bit of a rough transition, the job hunt took me longer than expected, etc. But I think longterm it's definitely the right decision, especially if you find yourself doing well in your new school (which thankfully has been the case for me.) But even if you don't end up being all that special in your new school, if you transfer high enough, you won't need to be special, since there's more margin for error at the top.

Re: letters of recommendation, my recommenders were great, even though I didn't decide to apply for a transfer until 2 days before the deadline for a few schools. And they've continued to support me with clerkship letters, etc. YMMV, but it can work out well (though I would definitely give them more than 2 days to write the letter.)

Hope this helps! Good luck!

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:05 pm**

barkschool wrote:
philippian413 wrote:You should be easily able to transfer into the T14. I would get 3 letters of recs if possible at a min 2. Make sure you able to write a 1 page letter why you want to transfer to that school in the T14. Also, remember it is not always greener pasture at the other side.
The bolded is bull shit.

The underlined is ignorant.

You can easily write your ticket into the upper t-14s. Not sure I agree with taking the Ed at chicago, b/c of your good shot at H.

How is that ignorant? He's right. Grass isn't always greener. Transferring to a top school gives you more margin for error in terms of grades and opens up some doors you wouldn't have had at your old school. But you also have to sacrifice things. Ultimately, not every person is happy with their decision to transfer. It's a decision a person needs to really weigh. Especially a person that's doing really well at a T1 school. Because they'll still have plenty of great opportunities.(assuming they are a capable interviewer)

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:12 pm**

lawman84 wrote:
barkschool wrote:
philippian413 wrote:Also, remember it is not always greener pasture at the other side.
The underlined is ignorant.
.
How is that ignorant? He's right. Grass isn't always greener. Transferring to a top school gives you more margin for error in terms of grades and opens up some doors you wouldn't have had at your old school. But you also have to sacrifice things. Ultimately, not every person is happy with their decision to transfer. It's a decision a person needs to really weigh. Especially a person that's doing really well at a T1 school. Because they'll still have plenty of great opportunities.(assuming they are a capable interviewer)

Doing exceptional at a first rate T1 is really the only possible exception (this is assuming you don't have kids or something locking you into a region). Most transfers, while still a gamble, open up a world of opportunity that was never available previously.

If you aren't happy at your new school, who cares, your career will thank you.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:25 pm**

barkschool wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
barkschool wrote:
philippian413 wrote:Also, remember it is not always greener pasture at the other side.
The underlined is ignorant.
.
How is that ignorant? He's right. Grass isn't always greener. Transferring to a top school gives you more margin for error in terms of grades and opens up some doors you wouldn't have had at your old school. But you also have to sacrifice things. Ultimately, not every person is happy with their decision to transfer. It's a decision a person needs to really weigh. Especially a person that's doing really well at a T1 school. Because they'll still have plenty of great opportunities.(assuming they are a capable interviewer)
Doing exceptional at a first rate T1 is really the only possible exception (this is assuming you don't have kids or something locking you into a region). Most transfers, while still a gamble, open up a world of opportunity that was never available previously.

If you aren't happy at your new school, who cares, your career will thank you.

OP is at a T1 school.

The final sentence is a bit of a stretch but it does depend where you transfer from.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:03 pm**

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Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:57 pm**

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:26 pm**

CheddarArachnid wrote:Well, I guess my thought to go ED at U-Chicago seems to be meeting some controversy. Did those who transferred find that their grades suffered in their second semester? I just do not want to pass up an opportunity to hit a school like Chicago on the chance that my grades drop. Granted my only non-A grade was a required economics course.

It's a mixed bag. My grades went up. I know plenty of others whose grades went down. I also know plenty of people whose grades went up. You never really know.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:16 pm**

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